Sunset limited schedule to change in may

[saxman]

-Houston 19,637

-Tuscon 23,340

-Maricopa 9,819

-San Antonio 67,168

Remember that these numbers also include Texas Eagle passengers going north and coming from the south.

From the Spring 2002 Timetable:

#1 Ar. SAS- 2:40 AM______Dp. SAS- 3:50 AM........2 hours 10 minute layover

#2 Ar. SAS- 5:01 AM______Dp. SAS- 6:00 AM........59 minute layover

#421 Ar. SAS- 11:45 PM______Dp. SAS- 3:50 AM.......4 hours 5 minute layover

#422 Ar. SAS- 5:01 AM______Dp. SAS- 7:30 AM.......2 hours 29 minute layover

From the Spring 2006 Timetable:

#421.....5 hours 55 minute layover

#422......9 hours 35 minute layover!!!

 

[afigg]

Surely you mean that the schedule that goes into effect in May (i.e. the new schedule, or one quite close to it) is the one that was used between NOL and LAX, when the SSL ran to Orlando, as say in the 2001 timetable?

That has nothing to do with two years anyway. If Amtrak wanted to run a train from NOL to JAX they could pretty much do so tomorrow subject to negotiations with CSX and scrounging together of three consists, or one for bi-weekly service, which is quite independent of anything that happens west of NOL.

I didn't. I can't recall, or don't know, most old schedules without looking at them, so my mistake. I'll review some of the old schedules in the handy Museum of Railway Timetables.

I suppose with the new Viewliner IIs coming into play, especially with the additional order being talked about, there could be an 'equipment change' in NOL for points east when/if enough equipment becomes available.

If the FEC really takes off as a corridor service, that could make Jacksonville - at either possible station location - a stronger hub with a bigger passenger base and connecting service to the eastern FL coast cities. If Amtrak were to order additional CAF Viewliner diners, baggage-dorms, and sleepers, they could conceivably use them for a Orlando-Jacksonville-New Orleans run. Looking up a 2004 schedule, the ORL-JAX-NOL route is 769 miles, which is above the 750 miles LD train cutoff. (Hmm, interesting coincidence).

Probability of Amtrak doing this is rather small, but on the other hand, it would restore service across a large gap in the system. If running to Orlando is a problem, have the train run down the FEC to Miami (and to the Hialeah service facility). Or split the train at Jacksonville, with one half going to Orlando, the other half to Miami over the FEC providing an additional daytime train on the FEC. Or just have a connection in JAX to a FEC corridor train. The train would roughly follow the 2004 schedule with a overnight run between NOL and JAX with connections in NOL ideally to the SL, CONO (with a longish but same day wait), and ideally the Crescent (if the Crescent 7 AM NOL departure could be moved to later). The schedule would provide a Jacksonville to Tallahassee day time service.

How many people in eastern FL would take a daily service day train to Tallahassee, late evening/early morning times at Pensacola, and overnight to NOL with connections to the CONO and SL 3 days a week? As I wrote, probability of Amtrak doing this is remote, but on the other hand, if someone in Congress or the Senate demands a restoration of the service in a few years, having reserve single level Viewliners and some Horizons sitting around would allow Amtrak to provide it.

 

[Blackshirt Husker]

I take 421 (Texas Eagle) out of Chicago to LA in June. So far, no call from Amtrak, but am I right in guessing that the only change for Texas Eagle passengers is the shorter layover in San Antonio?

I understand the rationale but kind of hate to see it--I actually enjoyed the longer layover in San Antonio, would usually step off the train to check out San Antonio, go to Whattaburger, etc. Sounds like that can still happen, but with much more of a time crunch. :/

And yeah, as others have mentioned, it would be great if Amtrak would allow sleeper and coach passengers to stay on the train at least until 6 am when arriving in LA. 5:30 am is not great but doable-- the problem comes when the train pulls in 90 minutes early and you're getting the 3:30 am wakeup to start packing up your stuff.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

After all is said and done.....negatives and positives.......the changes will allow Amtrak to utilize equipment that has been sitting in NOL under-utilized and save money on crew that have been housed in NOL waiting for their return trip.

I rode the Sunset Limited out to New Orleans this week and overheard the crew talking about their fun plans for the layover. It must be one of the most coveted gigs in the Amtrak system to have 3 nights and 2 full days in the Crescent City in between legs. Though a good gig for the OBSC, it certainly must be an expensive proposition for Amtrak. I would think this change might cause the route to lose some cache among the crew members who vie to bid on it.

 

[henryj]

Yeah I hardly think the loss of a decent time in SAS is going to affect anything really. It was 5:40 am and now its 2:45 am. This mean instead of getting up at 3 or 4 in the morning, you just stay up really late and get to the station around 2. I'd much rather do that unless you are use to getting up at that hour. Another big reason for the improvement is to tighten the layover in SAS. Espcially those going eastbound on 422, we're always horrified when they find out that they get into SAS at 10 pm, and have to sit there for 9 hours when all they wanted to do was go to Austin, only 80 miles away.

Amtrak has been working on this for awhile now. I heard UP was giving them a lot of road blocks, as they didn't want to change the schedule again. But sounds like they came to an agreement.

Now if we could get a same day connection to any train in NOL....I suppose that is impossible though.

Saxman, when I rode the train I believe it is open from the time it arrives in SAS. So you don't have to wait until 2am to board, you could board at midnight or earlier if the train is early.

 

[henryj]

-Houston 19,637

-Tuscon 23,340

-Maricopa 9,819

-San Antonio 67,168

Actual boardings for the Sunset in San Antonio are around 20,000. The rest of that is for the Eagle. The Sunset over it's history has often been carded into LAUPT early, sometimes as early as 6:35 so this is not particularly alarming. San Antonio has always been in the wrong place time wise with late evening, middle of the night or early morning schedules. Nothing unusual there. The improved times into Maricopa(Phoenix), Tucson and Houston will easily trump any inconvenience in SAS. This should help the train improve it's performance and costs plus it stops wasting that extra train set that just sat in NOL doing nothing. Most of this was published in the Amtrak performance review which recommended daily service. They have finally made the changes all except the daily part. There is no equipment to do the daily thing correctly so this is the best we can get for now.

 

[AlanB]

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1249238713922&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobheadername1=Content-disposition&blobheadervalue1=attachment;filename=Amtrak_ATK-12-018_Sunset_schedule_change.pdf

Arriving Train 1 sleeping car passengers at Los Angeles will be invited to remain aboard the train until 6:30 a.m.

Great, just what I need. Someone waking me up at 4:30 AM to invite me to remain on the train until 6:30 AM. :lol:

 

[The Journalist]

http://www.amtrak.co...dule_change.pdf

Arriving Train 1 sleeping car passengers at Los Angeles will be invited to remain aboard the train until 6:30 a.m.

Great, just what I need. Someone waking me up at 4:30 AM to invite me to remain on the train until 6:30 AM. :lol:

This is EXACTLY what I pictured as well.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

http://www.amtrak.co...dule_change.pdf

Arriving Train 1 sleeping car passengers at Los Angeles will be invited to remain aboard the train until 6:30 a.m.

Great, just what I need. Someone waking me up at 4:30 AM to invite me to remain on the train until 6:30 AM. :lol:

This is EXACTLY what I pictured as well.

Amtrak's timetable footnote notwithstanding, it's just too easy to imagine the scenario where some SCAs will be banging bunks, ramming seats back up, and slamming storage doors to "help" people get up sooner than later. For those who choose to stay until 6:30A, they may find more onboard hostility than onboard hospitality. I hope I'm wrong about this but that's my gut feeling.

 

[cirdan]

Amtrak's timetable footnote notwithstanding, it's just too easy to imagine the scenario where some SCAs will be banging bunks, ramming seats back up, and slamming storage doors to "help" people get up sooner than later. For those who choose to stay until 6:30A, they may find more onboard hostility than onboard hospitality. I hope I'm wrong about this but that's my gut feeling.

On the other hand, seeing most sleeper passengers tend to tip the attendants on leaving the train, that may not be the time when they would want to put a nasty end to an otherwise pleasant journey.

 

[Anderson]

Amtrak's timetable footnote notwithstanding, it's just too easy to imagine the scenario where some SCAs will be banging bunks, ramming seats back up, and slamming storage doors to "help" people get up sooner than later. For those who choose to stay until 6:30A, they may find more onboard hostility than onboard hospitality. I hope I'm wrong about this but that's my gut feeling.

On the other hand, seeing most sleeper passengers tend to tip the attendants on leaving the train, that may not be the time when they would want to put a nasty end to an otherwise pleasant journey.

Bingo. An SCA who makes a huge racket trying to run folks off the train at the end of a two-day run could easily cost themselves out $100 or more in tips in a full car. Unless service had been amazing up until then, a clearly purposeful racket would likely have me "forgetting" a tip.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Seeing most sleeper passengers tend to tip the attendants on leaving the train, that may not be the time when they would want to put a nasty end to an otherwise pleasant journey.

Bingo. An SCA who makes a huge racket trying to run folks off the train at the end of a two-day run could easily cost themselves out $100 or more in tips in a full car. Unless service had been amazing up until then, a clearly purposeful racket would likely have me "forgetting" a tip.

Whatever the actual loss may be, it would still need to be perceived as substantially worse than giving two hours of "free" labor to Amtrak in the mind of the SCA. Otherwise they may very well have no problem waking you up and getting you on your way.

Also, I don't think you ever responded to this...

As to allowing sleeper vs. coach occupancy, I think the argument is more or less the multiple of a coach fare that sleeper passengers pay. There's a certain amount of aggravation that comes from paying lots and lots of money only to have an unpleasant surprise in the middle of the night.

If the amount paid is the only dividing line then why not kick off folks with AGR sleeper tickets who paid even less than coach passengers?

 

[saxman]

Anyone know what the contract for the SCA's actually say as far as payment when the train arrives? Do they stop getting paid at the actual time of arrival or are they paid for the scheduled time, whichever comes later?

Most scheduled transportation jobs, I think it would be the latter. If the train arrives 60 minutes early, that means the on board crew gets screwed out of one hour of pay, but if it reads in the contract, no matter how early the train arrives, they'll still get paid that hour. That's how it works in the airline world at least.

Of course getting the crew to stay on board another hour or two, when they probably just want to get home opens up another can of worms.

 

[Trogdor]

Crews are paid based on scheduled times (or actual, if later). If trains arrive early, crews still get paid until scheduled arrival time.

In the case of sleeper occupancy until 6:30 am, then the sleeper attendant would be paid until 6:30 am.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Crews are paid based on scheduled times (or actual, if later). If trains arrive early, crews still get paid until scheduled arrival time. In the case of sleeper occupancy until 6:30 am, then the sleeper attendant would be paid until 6:30 am.

Interesting. Would payment for those hours be impacted by an SCA making noise and/or getting on the PA system and/or knocking on doors to indirectly nudge people off the train by waking them up to welcome them to stay longer? In other words, if everyone is off the train do they still get paid until 6:30? Would anyone in charge of salaries even know that the sleeper was empty at that point? I've had sleeper attendants get on the PA to tell us that they need everyone to help clean up their rooms so they can go home as soon as we pull into the station when the train was already ahead of schedule.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Very Interesting Topic! Wonder if one of our Amtrak Employee Members can fill us in on the Contract and the Actual Plan (if any???) for the Arrival into LAX!!! :help: I too have been on Many LD Trains that were Arriving Early into the Terminal and the SCAs and Coach Attendants and LSAs were in a Big Hurry to get Everything Cleaned Up and In Order(including Boxing up Breakfast, waking up Sleeper Pax and taking up the Pillows in Coach and LOCKING the Restrooms!!! , Setting the Luggage in the Vestibule etc. so they could Literally Run off the Train when it Arrived Early! CHI, LAX,WAS and NOL seem to be where this happens the most IME!!! (Fastest Person in the World: An Amtrak OBS Running Down the Platform when the Train Arrives @ the Terminal!!! :lol: )

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

My experiences corroborate those that Jim describes above when riding #1 and #3 into LA. Crews are long gone before actual arrival times when the train is early, and there is a palpable sense of urgency in the car that everyone is to get off as soon as the train stops (even though the attendant is being paid until 8:15/8:30). I don't find it to be a particularly compelling argument that just because SCAs will be paid until 6:30A, it will ensure that they patiently honor that occupancy time. To be fair, they have just come home from multiple days on the road and are probably fatigued, especially in the dawn hours of the last day. So, the question becomes whether or not their desire to go home outweighs their concerns about tipping consequences of running passengers off the train as quickly as possible. There's not a slam dunk answer to that question.

 

[jis]

I have always thought that it is only fair to pay the OBS something like half hour past arrival time, if Amtrak is truly serious about providing good customer experience at the destination station.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

My experience is that on both #1 & #3 there is an ingrained culture, on the part of the LA based crews, of getting everyone off ASAP at LAX. The excuse used is that the train can't 'linger' at the platform at LAX becuase the track will be needed for other arrivals. IMHO I think this is going to be tough to change, short of someone from management boarding #1 in Palm Springs!

 

[LA guest]

TAs do get paid "strip time", if needed, beyond the scheduled end of their shifts upon arrival. Stripping linens, taking out trash, etc., all takes time, and if it can't be done in the scheduled time, they are entitled to be paid for the actual time it takes.

As far as arrival in LA, I can't imagine most people would want to stay lounging in bed while at the platform. There is lots of outside noise, and there will be onboard announcements (regarding redcaps, luggage, etc.), so anyone who really wants to stay on the train until 6:30 if it arrives an hour early is just a masochist or hellbent on some kind of childish control impulse.

 

[the_traveler]

When the Night Owl had the "executive sleeper", it was cut off in NYP or could be occupied early at NYP. Likewise it could be occupied early or late at WAS also. So what is the difference between the outside noise at NYP or WAS and LAX?

 

[The Davy Crockett]

so anyone who really wants to stay on the train until 6:30 if it arrives an hour early is just a masochist or hellbent on some kind of childish control impulse.

I'm an early riser and wouldn't 'linger' past 5:00, when Starbucks opens and I could get coffee, but the above is more than a tad harsh. :help: I know folks who could sleep through a tornado. In fact, I'd put money on my sister-in-law ending up in the yard if she ever took #1, as she sleeps heavily until at least 8:00. Not everyone is a 'morning person.'

 

[The Davy Crockett]

When the Night Owl had the "executive sleeper", it was cut off in NYP or could be occupied early at NYP. Likewise it could be occupied early or late at WAS also. So what is the difference between the outside noise at NYP or WAS and LAX?

Exactly. I only took 'the subway hotel' - as the SCA called it - once. But I didn't feel a thing when we were left off at NYP. It surprised me when I woke that it we were sitting still. In fact it was the 'quiet' that woke me up!

 

[Palmland]

Glad to see the extra hour at LAUPT as I am contemplating a trip this summer. I would imagine no one would actually sleep until 0630, but the ability to wake up upon arrival and then take your time about cleaning up a bit and dressing would make the early arrival time half way bearable.

Certainly there is precedent for that at Amtrak as mentioned. I did in fact take the executive sleeper from Washington and was undisturbed in NYP until time to get off. Before that the Pullman co. had many sleepers where occupancy was later than arrival time. But as always with Amtrak, they may have the best of intentions but reality is often different.

 

[LA guest]

so anyone who really wants to stay on the train until 6:30 if it arrives an hour early is just a masochist or hellbent on some kind of childish control impulse.

I'm an early riser and wouldn't 'linger' past 5:00, when Starbucks opens and I could get coffee, but the above is more than a tad harsh. :help: I know folks who could sleep through a tornado. In fact, I'd put money on my sister-in-law ending up in the yard if she ever took #1, as she sleeps heavily until at least 8:00. Not everyone is a 'morning person.'

If they can sleep through a tornado, they might wake up in the yard. Scheduled arrival time is 5:35 a.m., and I doubt that the regular employee schedule has TAs working later than 6:30 or so. If the train arrives at 5:00, and someone plans to stay in bed until 6:30, they'll probably end up with about 30 seconds to exit the train before it's pulled to the yard...also, given that TAs have work to do (such as emptying the coffee, and taking water and juice off the train, not to mention taking paperwork to the crew base), anyone still on the train might be on their own. In my TA experience, those who are the most demanding (such as staying in bed right to the platform) are also highly unlikely to leave a tip, no matter how much the TA might have bent over backward to please them. Counterintuitive though it may be, the biggest tips come from the least demanding passengers.