Sunset limited schedule to change in may

[Devil's Advocate]

Anyone who really wants to stay on the train until 6:30 if it arrives an hour early is just a masochist or hellbent on some kind of childish control impulse.

Wow, you sound just like several of the Sunset SCA's I've had over the years.

Counterintuitive though it may be, the biggest tips come from the least demanding passengers.

Or maybe people who never had a need to cross you gave you the benefit of the doubt and tipped well while those who ended up on your bad side left little or nothing as a result of seeing your response to their requests. You don't exactly come off as a helpful sort of person aiming to please.

 

[Anderson]

Anyone who really wants to stay on the train until 6:30 if it arrives an hour early is just a masochist or hellbent on some kind of childish control impulse.

Wow, you sound just like several of the Sunset SCA's I've had over the years.

Counterintuitive though it may be, the biggest tips come from the least demanding passengers.

Or maybe people who never had a need to cross you gave you the benefit of the doubt and tipped well while those who ended up on your bad side left little or nothing as a result of seeing your response to their requests. You don't exactly come off as a helpful sort of person aiming to please.

It's not counterintuitive. I'm usually a pretty good tipper, and I rarely ask more than the basic level of service (i.e. for my bed to be made up/taken down, for a wakeup call in the morning, and to be pointed to the dining car). You tend to get two clusters of folks: Those who make lots and lots of requests and offer nothing, and those who are pretty low maintenance but who tip well for what they get. I like to think that I fall into the latter category...but I've seen both categories before on plenty of occasions.

 

[Montanan]

You know, back in the day when Pullman travel was the standard in America, set-out sleeping cars were very common, and overnight trains would regularly pick up and drop off short-haul sleepers at intermediate stations all over the country. It was standard practice to allow passengers using those cars to board them at 10 or 11 PM, and to occupy them till 7 or 8 AM, regardless of the actual train times. Though most of that was before my time, I get the sense that it was a very well-used service, and a great marketing tool ... essentially marketing the train as a moving hotel room for business travelers.

Those days aren't coming back in the broader sense, because Amtrak won't have the equipment ... and they'd want it more heavily utilized than they did. But it's a mindset that would work well in a few places today, including on the new Sunset schedule. But Amtrak would have to make the mindset part of its on-board culture, and sell it to the public with some amenities -- a box breakfast available on the stopped train at LA, ability to schedule a 6:30 redcap in advance, that sort of thing.

That sort of marketing still takes place on some overseas services, such as the sleeper trains between London and Scotland. They'd be a good model for Amtrak.

 

[Gratt]

I have to agree that getting into LAX at 5:30 is way to early even if they do let you stay till 6:30.

I much rather arrive at 6:30 and be able to get out as late as 7:30.

The same is true for SAS east bound getting in at 6:00AM is far more acceptable than 4:50AM

Crazy idea here- maybe the solution should be to at a few more stops west of SAS.

I bet their are a few tiny towns in between that could supply some demand.

The other option is to extend the layover in MRC. I am fine with either option :giggle:

 

[Donctor]

That sort of marketing still takes place on some overseas services, such as the sleeper trains between London and Scotland. They'd be a good model for Amtrak.

The Caledonians are indeed a good example of this type of stuff working. Of course, though, those trains are much less like "land cruises" than Amtrak.

 

[Anderson]

That sort of marketing still takes place on some overseas services, such as the sleeper trains between London and Scotland. They'd be a good model for Amtrak.

The Caledonians are indeed a good example of this type of stuff working. Of course, though, those trains are much less like "land cruises" than Amtrak.

The Caledonians are not unlike the Silvers, the Lake Shore, or the Cap in many regards. The trip is somewhat shorter for the Caledonian (or the Cornwall service) than these, but the structure isn't that different.

 

[Donctor]

That sort of marketing still takes place on some overseas services, such as the sleeper trains between London and Scotland. They'd be a good model for Amtrak.

The Caledonians are indeed a good example of this type of stuff working. Of course, though, those trains are much less like "land cruises" than Amtrak.

The Caledonians are not unlike the Silvers, the Lake Shore, or the Cap in many regards. The trip is somewhat shorter for the Caledonian (or the Cornwall service) than these, but the structure isn't that different.

Eh. The Caledonians don't serve intermediate markets. (So maybe they're similar to the Cap.)

 

[jis]

Eh. The Caledonians don't serve intermediate markets. (So maybe they're similar to the Cap.)

The Cap doesn't serve intermediate markets? What is Toledo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Cumberland?

I can't think of a truly equivalent Amtrak service. If there were a Silver Train that went non-stop from Washington DC to Jacksonville and then called at a few Florida stops, that would be more like the Caledonian Sleepers.

 

[Anderson]

That sort of marketing still takes place on some overseas services, such as the sleeper trains between London and Scotland. They'd be a good model for Amtrak.

The Caledonians are indeed a good example of this type of stuff working. Of course, though, those trains are much less like "land cruises" than Amtrak.

The Caledonians are not unlike the Silvers, the Lake Shore, or the Cap in many regards. The trip is somewhat shorter for the Caledonian (or the Cornwall service) than these, but the structure isn't that different.

Eh. The Caledonians don't serve intermediate markets. (So maybe they're similar to the Cap.)

Well, they don't serve south-of-Scotland markets...but there are cars sent on three different routes, and I think you have multiple stops served by the Ft. William sleeper. Also, the one-night journey in particular is what I was thinking of.

Just a thought, but it is a real shame that the amended schedule on the Sunset couldn't be supplemented by a Hoosier State-esque (I know, bad train to call upon) NOL-HOU/SAS train that would run on the other four days. I can see the reason for not having daily service Tuscon-San Antonio (it's a lightly-populated, lightly-traveled gap), and a Tuscon-LAX train would be problematic (though it could probably be handled with an "enhanced cafe" service in lieu of a full diner, given that there's only one meal either way).

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Anyone who really wants to stay on the train until 6:30 if it arrives an hour early is just a masochist or hellbent on some kind of childish control impulse.

Wow, you sound just like several of the Sunset SCA's I've had over the years.

Counterintuitive though it may be, the biggest tips come from the least demanding passengers.

Or maybe people who never had a need to cross you gave you the benefit of the doubt and tipped well while those who ended up on your bad side left little or nothing as a result of seeing your response to their requests. You don't exactly come off as a helpful sort of person aiming to please.

It's not counterintuitive. I'm usually a pretty good tipper, and I rarely ask more than the basic level of service (i.e. for my bed to be made up/taken down, for a wakeup call in the morning, and to be pointed to the dining car). You tend to get two clusters of folks: Those who make lots and lots of requests and offer nothing, and those who are pretty low maintenance but who tip well for what they get. I like to think that I fall into the latter category...but I've seen both categories before on plenty of occasions.

I too am not demanding, am self-sufficient actually, but am a very good tipper, even when I just receive minimally average service. The only exception is when I hit a really bad attitude in the OBS. Someone who thinks their job is completely about them, and that the 'talking cattle' need to be prodded into submission, would be an example of what I'm talking about. Lazy OBS really dislike veteran Amtrak riders because they can't be so easily 'bullfarkied.' "LA quest," if they were/are a SCA, would be one I would be very, very tempted to not tip well, if at all. I've given 'lesser' tips, but never not tipped. However, push me far enough... People that are in jobs that involve customer service, and hate people, should do everyone a favor and find a job that is better suited to them.

 

[dart330]

I agree a daily train from SAS-NOL would be great. There is a huge population in the area simply an overnight train ride away from one another, vs the 2 nights it takes going LAX - NOL. I saw an idea posted previously, why not just have the TE/CONO run in a loop CHI-SAS-NOL-CHI and vice versa?

With all my complaints about the much longer SAS layover, it is good to see the CS connection restored and I hope I can take advantage of it in the future.

 

[Donctor]

The Cap doesn't serve intermediate markets? What is Toledo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Cumberland?

I don't know. Never heard of 'em.

 

[Montanan]

East of San Antonio, the Sunset's schedule is just ridiculously slow compared to the competition ... it would be a great corridor, but to be more than marginally competitive I think the schedule would need to be speeded up.

If we're daydreaming about hopeless possibilities, my vote would be daily service between LA and Arizona ... but of course to be really successful that would require reopening the line to Phoenix. I rode the Sunset back in the early 90s when it was still running through Phoenix, and there was a surprisingly high amount of LA-Phoenix traffic back then.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

East of San Antonio, the Sunset's schedule is just ridiculously slow compared to the competition ... it would be a great corridor, but to be more than marginally competitive I think the schedule would need to be speeded up.

If we're daydreaming about hopeless possibilities, my vote would be daily service between LA and Arizona ... but of course to be really successful that would require reopening the line to Phoenix. I rode the Sunset back in the early 90s when it was still running through Phoenix, and there was a surprisingly high amount of LA-Phoenix traffic back then.

I think these are both excellent points. It will be interesting to see how much business Amtrak can actually pick up with a thrice weekly train with these factors in play.

 

[AudenHoggart]

It may be on this thread somewhere, but what are the implications of the SL schedule change on TE timings between San Antonio and Chicago?

 

[afigg]

It may be on this thread somewhere, but what are the implications of the SL schedule change on TE timings between San Antonio and Chicago?

There was no statement about any changes in the TE schedule in the press release on the SL change. The 2010 PIP report recommended that the TE depart CHI later, but no such change shows up when I try to book a late May TE from CHI to SAS. Maybe there will be a TE #21 schedule change annouced later.

 

[Bob Dylan]

It may be on this thread somewhere, but what are the implications of the SL schedule change on TE timings between San Antonio and Chicago?

There was no statement about any changes in the TE schedule in the press release on the SL change. The 2010 PIP report recommended that the TE depart CHI later, but no such change shows up when I try to book a late May TE from CHI to SAS. Maybe there will be a TE #21 schedule change annouced later.

The only change for the Tri-Weekly TE#421/#21 Departing CHI for LAX is that the Third Day will now be Friday instead of Thursday! It will Still Leave CHI @ the scheduled time of 1:45PM, run the Same Schedule to SAS!!

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Other than the different day of departure for one of the southbound #421's, there are currently none. Amtrak is going to wait for at least most of the CHI-STL upgrades to be completed first.

 

[ScottC4746]

Here is the new schedule compared with the old. What I did was go to Amtrak.com and piece it together since it is not posted yet. Where you see for example 12:47 PM/12:57 PM that means Arrives at 12:47 and departs at 12:57 PM. Please note, I did not notate the operations days as we all know what they are from the press release...and frankly at 10 PM I am too tired to deal with that.

1 Current 1 New City 2 Current 2 New

11:55 AM 9:00 AM New Orleans 2:55 PM 9:40 PM

1:25 PM 10:30 AM Schriever 12:03 PM 7:03 PM

2:51 PM 11:56 AM New Iberia 10:41 AM 5:41 PM

3:19 PM 12:24 PM Lafayette 10:15 AM 5:12 PM/5:15 PM

4:50 PM 1:55 PM Lake Charles 8:29 AM 3:29 PM

6:43 PM 3:34 PM/3:48 PM Beaumont 7:05 AM 1:53 PM/2:05 PM

913 PM/9:50 PM 6:18 PM/6:55 PM Houston 4:40 AM/5:10 AM 11:10 AM/12:10 PM

3:00 AM/5:40 AM 12:05 AM/2:45 AM San Antonio 9:50 PM/11:55 PM 4:50 AM/6:25 AM

8:35 AM 5:49 AM Del Rio 6:02 PM 1:02 AM

11:10 AM 8:24 AM Sanderson 3:36 PM 10:36 PM

1:24 PM 10:38 AM Alpine 1:45 PM 8:45 PM

4:15 PM/4:40 PM 1:22 PM/1:47 PM El Paso 8:10 AM/8:35 AM 3:10 PM/3:35 PM

6:11 PM 3:18 PM Deming 6:10 AM 1:10 PM

7:06 PM 4:13 PM Lordsburg 5:15 AM 12:15 PM

9:11 PM 5:18 PM Benson 3:15 AM 9:15 AM

10:40 PM/11:30 PM 6:45 PM/7:35 PM Tucson 1:26 AM/2:15 AM 7:28 AM/8:15 AM

12:47 AM/12:57 AM 8:52 PM/9:02 PM Maricopa 11:28 PM/11:38 PM 5:30 AM/5:40 AM

3:44 AM 11:49 PM Yuma 8:45 PM 2:47 AM

4:54 AM 2:02 AM Palm Springs 5:35 PM 12:36 PM

6:46 AM 3:54 AM Ontario 3:54 PM 10:54 PM

6:56 AM 4:04 AM Pomona 3:41 PM 10:41 PM

8:30 AM 5:35 AM Los Angeles 3:00 PM 10:00 PM

Well, it did not exactly format properly. Hope you all can read it. I don't have the time or patience to try to fix it.

 

[afigg]

Here is the new schedule compared with the old. What I did was go to Amtrak.com and piece it together since it is not posted yet. Where you see for example 12:47 PM/12:57 PM that that.

The entire revised SL schedule is listed in the Amtrak press release which is on the website and was linked to earlier in this thread.

 

[henryj]

A copy of the Amtrak letter to UP is here.

http://groups.google.com/group/sunset-limited-west/browse_thread/thread/cce5a792549f9ffa?hl=en

 

[Anderson]

My favorite bit: Adding 30 minutes' dwell in Houston to avoid cutting the length of the run. :blink:

 

[afigg]

A copy of the Amtrak letter to UP is here.

http://groups.google.com/group/sunset-limited-west/browse_thread/thread/cce5a792549f9ffa?hl=en

Thanks for the link. Useful to see the actual wording of the agreement between UP and Amtrak on the 2 year period. Which costs Amtrak nothing, except keeping the 3 day a week service, because Amtrak will not have the equipment to add new service to any UP route in the west for the next 2 years.

California is studying a LA to Palm Springs/Coachella valley service, which would be a state supported corridor so does not fall under the agreement, but until CA orders and receives enough new bi-level cars to support it, they can't add the service. So, even if CA starts planning a service and brings Amtrak & UP into the process, official requests and agreements are probably more than 2 years off.

In 2 years, UP may have finished or be close to finishing the double tracking from LA to El Paso. The Colton Crossing flyover in CA should be nearly done as well. Will be more difficult for UP to demand exorbitant amounts of money with a straight face by then to run a daily SL.

 

[Anderson]

A copy of the Amtrak letter to UP is here.

http://groups.google...2549f9ffa?hl=en

Thanks for the link. Useful to see the actual wording of the agreement between UP and Amtrak on the 2 year period. Which costs Amtrak nothing, except keeping the 3 day a week service, because Amtrak will not have the equipment to add new service to any UP route in the west for the next 2 years.

California is studying a LA to Palm Springs/Coachella valley service, which would be a state supported corridor so does not fall under the agreement, but until CA orders and receives enough new bi-level cars to support it, they can't add the service. So, even if CA starts planning a service and brings Amtrak & UP into the process, official requests and agreements are probably more than 2 years off.

In 2 years, UP may have finished or be close to finishing the double tracking from LA to El Paso. The Colton Crossing flyover in CA should be nearly done as well. Will be more difficult for UP to demand exorbitant amounts of money with a straight face by then to run a daily SL.

I'm just wondering, but is it possible that UP would actually have a bit of spare capacity to play with by then (i.e. they'd have more slots on their tracks for the trains to run without getting in the way of freights that it would behoove them to lease)? Not that UP likes having passenger trains on their tracks, but a filled slot is a filled slot.

Of course, I expect them to fight for a siding or two...but as I said somewhere else, siding-related deals aren't unreasonable given the speed differentials involved on long runs.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm just wondering, but is it possible that UP would actually have a bit of spare capacity to play with by then (i.e. they'd have more slots on their tracks for the trains to run without getting in the way of freights that it would behoove them to lease)? Not that UP likes having passenger trains on their tracks, but a filled slot is a filled slot. Of course, I expect them to fight for a siding or two...but as I said somewhere else, siding-related deals aren't unreasonable given the speed differentials involved on long runs.

I don't think you can "spend a loss" on a new siding. Since there are likely to be no new infrastructure funds in the foreseeable future I'm not sure where Amtrak would get the money for something like that. Even if they could I'm not sure the increasing debt would be worth it.