Five Engines Pulling a Train

[Green Maned Lion]

Agreed. The five engines are a function of 2 going with the CZ, 2 going with the DW, and 1 going with the Pioneer.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Perhaps it was some kind of equipment move, or a train put together especially for a photo shoot.

 

[Amtrak839]

I'm telling you the ad is photoshopped. At the front is a EB consist, Mid train theres a baggage car, and towards the rear there are two Sightseer Lounges. I rest my case.
cpamtfan-Peter

If they were editing the photo, why leave the baggage car in? They could have simply edited it out. Also, I only see one sightseer lounge after the mid baggage. I think you are seeing some shadows. It also does not explain having 5 locos.

I do not see anything that proves it is an edited photo.

Most Amtrak's photos are edited. Look through timetable pictures and you will notice the locomotive numbers are almost always photoshopped off. Also if you look at the 2009-2010 vacations guide, the cooling fans are missing from the tops of the P42s. I think the windows are wrong on the sleepers, too. They have the middle window completely blanked, instead of half blanked.

 

[printman2000]

Most Amtrak's photos are edited. Look through timetable pictures and you will notice the locomotive numbers are almost always photoshopped off. Also if you look at the 2009-2010 vacations guide, the cooling fans are missing from the tops of the P42s. I think the windows are wrong on the sleepers, too. They have the middle window completely blanked, instead of half blanked.

Removing small details is one thing. Adding cars to a train is a lot harder. Not to mention does not make sense in this picture. If they added those cars on the back, did they also add locos on the front? Why else would there be 5 locos?

Then again (arguing against myself here), perhaps the train had a bunch of box cars on the rear which they deleted then filled the hole with additional passenger cars.

Either way, I see no definitive proof.

 

[cpamtfan]

Consist I see:

5 P40/42

baggage(?)

transdorm

sleeper

sleeper

diner

coach

coach

lounge

coach

coach

sleeper

baggage

sleeper or coach (not a transdorm)

sleeper or coach

sleeper, coach, or possible diner

lounge

lounge

sleeper or coach

sleeper or coach

sleeper or coach

I am now thinking that the second train might be the Auto Train sleeper section, but I don't know why it would have two lounges and a baggage.

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I don't know how you all see that many cars in the consist! I see:

P45 (x5)

Sleeper

Sleeper

Sleeper

Diner

Coach

Coach

SSL

Coach

Coach

Bag

Coach/sleeper

SSL

Coach/sleeper

Either way, it makes no sense to me. If there are three trains here, why is there only one bag and why is it right in the center of the train?

Secondly... what an UGLY picture! If that is the result of somebody photoshopping in order to get a "great" train... then wow. It looks awful with that amount of motive power and a bag in the middle!

 

[wayman]

I don't know how you all see that many cars in the consist! I see:

Here's how:

Either way, it makes no sense to me. If there are three trains here, why is there only one bag and why is it right in the center of the train?

The first baggage is not visible in the photograph, between the angle and the height.

The first eleven cars are train one, probably the California Zephyr. Baggage, Transdorm, Sleepers, Diner, Sightseer, and Coaches.

The next five cars are train two, probably the Desert Wind. Baggage, probably three coaches, and a Sightseer.

The next four cars are train three, probably the Pioneer. Sightseer, probably three coaches.

Yes, the baggage car prevents travel between the Zephyr and the Wind/Pioneer. My guess is that there just weren't sleepers on the Wind/Pioneer, and if you wanted a sleeper between Chicago and ... Salt Lake? ... you had to book separately, to be in a sleeper on the Zephyr for the first half, then switch trains basically when the split happened. I'd hope Amtrak was smart enough to just put your luggage in the correct place at the start rather than moving it! Did the Pioneer not have checked baggage, or did it carry checked baggage downstairs in one of the coaches as a coach/baggage?

I've read accounts that the Wind had only a Hi-Level lounge/diner or a Sightseer as its food servicde, no full Superliner diner ever. I'd imagine the Pioneer was the same, and that explains why we see two Sightseers coupled together here.

Really, this is pretty much mystery solved.

 

[the_traveler]

My guess is that there just weren't sleepers on the Wind/Pioneer, and if you wanted a sleeper between Chicago and ... Salt Lake? ... you had to book separately, to be in a sleeper on the Zephyr for the first half, then switch trains basically when the split happened. I'd hope Amtrak was smart enough to just put your luggage in the correct place at the start rather than moving it! Did the Pioneer not have checked baggage, or did it carry checked baggage downstairs in one of the coaches as a coach/baggage?
I've read accounts that the Wind had only a Hi-Level lounge/diner or a Sightseer as its food servicde, no full Superliner diner ever. I'd imagine the Pioneer was the same, and that explains why we see two Sightseers coupled together here.

I can't say for sure about the sleepers on the DW and Pioneer, because those were the days I rode coach. Although I did get a roomette for 1 night and go coach 1 night, but the roomette was CHI-DEN and coach was DEN-LAS. Both also had checked baggage, as I've check bags to LAS and SEA on them.

I don't really recall the food service, but I believe they both had full Superliner Diners.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I disagree, Wayman. I don't think there is a baggage between the last Genesis and the Transdorm. I also disagree on the make up. The Pioneer ran with a diner.

My read: This is an east bound CZ/DW/Pioneer

P42 (Zephyr)

P42 (Zephyr)

P42 (Desert Wind)

P42 (Pioneer)

P42 (Pioneer)

Transdorm (Pioneer)

Sleeper (Pioneer)

Sleeper (Pioneer)

Diner (Pioneer)

Coach (Pioneer)

Coach (Pioneer)

Sightseer (Desert Wind)

Coach (Desert Wind)

Coach (Desert Wind)

Sleeper (Desert Wind)

Baggage (California Zephyr)

Transdorm (California Zephyr)

Sleeper (California Zephyr)

Sleeper (California Zephyr)

Sightseer (California Zephyr, Diner bad ordered in Oakland)

Sightseer (California Zephyr)

Coach (California Zephyr)

Coach (California Zephyr)

 

[EB_OBS]

The Pioneer did have a diner. I know quite a few SAs who used to work that train. When it connected with the CZ & DW there would be two diners.

 

[Rick]

I'm telling you the ad is photoshopped. At the front is a EB consist, Mid train theres a baggage car, and towards the rear there are two Sightseer Lounges. I rest my case.
cpamtfan-Peter

If they were editing the photo, why leave the baggage car in? They could have simply edited it out. Also, I only see one sightseer lounge after the mid baggage. I think you are seeing some shadows. It also does not explain having 5 locos.

I do not see anything that proves it is an edited photo.

I don't know what the deal is with the five engines, but it sure looks cool though...

 

[amtrakwolverine]

i say 5 engines are over kill. if 2 engines can pull a fully loaded auto train why can't 2 or 3 locos pull that whole train unless only 2 or 3 are online and the others will be used for the split. though that would be alot of dead weight and extra fuel burned.

 

[wayman]

i say 5 engines are over kill. if 2 engines can pull a fully loaded auto train why can't 2 or 3 locos pull that whole train unless only 2 or 3 are online and the others will be used for the split. though that would be alot of dead weight and extra fuel burned.

Note that one key difference between this and the Auto Train is that the AT doesn't have to go over any 9,000 foot mountain ranges. Heck, the Auto Train probably doesn't even have to deal with more than 500 feet in total elevation change over its entire run.

I would guess that three of these five were pulling and two were in neutral and "along for the ride".

 

[printman2000]

I disagree, Wayman. I don't think there is a baggage between the last Genesis and the Transdorm.

Yeah, I too do not see how a baggage car could be between the loco and the transdorm.

 

[wayman]

I disagree, Wayman. I don't think there is a baggage between the last Genesis and the Transdorm. I also disagree on the make up. The Pioneer ran with a diner.

I could go either way on that "invisible baggage", as to whether it's there or not. But why would that first car be a Transdorm if there's no single-level car to Trans to?

I wasn't able to find any consist info for the Pioneer, so I was really clueless about what it ran with. What I found on the Desert Wind meshes pretty well though. And the "first Sightseer should've been a Diner" was what I'd initially thought before then thinking that was the joint between DW/P

Would the CZ really have been that "short"? Two sleepers, two coaches?

But yes, GML, I think your version is right.

 

[printman2000]

I could go either way on that "invisible baggage", as to whether it's there or not. But why would that first car be a Transdorm if there's no single-level car to Trans to?

You would still need crew space and back then, I believe, the transdorms were crew only space.

 

[cpamtfan]

I think I see a diner infront of the two lounges of the second train, and the first train is the EB. But noone really believes me so I'll just keep quiet.

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[printman2000]

I think I see a diner infront of the two lounges of the second train, and the first train is the EB. But noone really believes me so I'll just keep quiet.
cpamtfan-Peter

Don't take disagreement personally. None of us have proof of anything here. We are all just spit balling our own ideas, which I have particularly enjoyed. Your observations are just as important as anyones, but you have to know no of us has any absolute proof, just opinions.

So please, continue your observations, but know that people like me need more proof to make any final judgements.

By the way, I do see what your talking about with the diner in the second train. There does seem to be a space between windows on the car in front of the first sightseer.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I disagree with all of you, edited or not, real or not, it is an awful looking train and I would never have put it in an advert.

 

[wayman]

I disagree with all of you, edited or not, real or not, it is an awful looking train and I would never have put it in an advert.

I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentiment here. Awful choice for an ad. Awful photograph.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I have ridden the train a couple of times when it was the CZ,Desert Wind and Pioneer combined. I do not remember for sure the number of locomotives or exactly how the diner and lounge thing worked going three ways.

But I do know there was no baggage car in the middle, and I know that as a sleeping car passenger I was able to walk the full length of the train which I remember as being about 18 cars.

I am quite sure it had only 2 or 3 locos. I can recall trains with five locos back in the pre-Amtrak days of UP, Santa Fe,etc. Especially over certain ranges.

Why did I not keep better notes'? Well, what for? There was no AU that I knew of, I would never have known I would some day be able to communicate such info as consist notes with other fans.

It was a lonely hobby.

Besides people as old as I were sometimes in denial about how the the passenger business would almost go way...it would always be here in substantially the same form, we thought....whats to take notes? I did not even buy a camera until comparatively late in life.

 

[the_traveler]

Well, what for? There was no AU

Say it ain't so!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Well, what for? There was no AU

Say it ain't so!

Well Im old too and IIRC there were some strange looking trains during the transition period ofPrivate RRs to AMTRAK!Lots of mixing of cars,passenger and freight,engines,baggage,sleepers,domes,lounges

etc.(not to mention the weird colors mixing so many different lines!!!)Not knowing for sure Id venture

that there are true elements in what all of yall say,some ad flack did a poor job for sure!!! :lol: BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MrFSS]

I found the original ad in the table and scanned it at 800 DPI and cropped the consist out. You can see the print dots but maybe this will help all you gurus out there. You have to click on the thumbnail for the really big full picture.

 

[AlanB]

Why did I not keep better notes'? Well, what for? There was no AU that I knew of, I would never have known I would some day be able to communicate such info as consist notes with other fans.

Bill,

If you had kept notes, I'm not sure where you could have squeezed them into your apartment. :lol:

You probably would have had to loose some other piece of memorabilia or rent the apartment next door.

For those who don't know, Bill's apartment is full of RR memorabilia, time tables, and Trains Magazines.