I saw this ad in a 1998 table. Looks like five engines pulling that train. Did this really ever happen? Done for the picture in the ad, only?
Five Engines Pulling a Train
- Thread starter MrFSS
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
- Status
cpamtfan
OBS Chief
I saw this ad in a 1998 table. Looks like five engines pulling that train. Did this really ever happen? Done for the picture in the ad, only?
Maybe once or twice on the SWC when it was the "Great Mail Train of the West", but it looks like they just photoshoped two western consists together to make it look "a great train".
Long Train Runnin'
Engineer
Those are P40s right? Unless they cut out a set of 10 express mail trailers on the end I can't imagine why you would need that much power.
cpamtfan
OBS Chief
Most of the time, it was a mix of engines. The train also used to carry over twenty mail cars (Road&Railers, MHCs, etc.). The usual train had 4 engines.
cpamtfan-Peter
printman2000
Engineer
Seriously doubt they went to the trouble to "Photoshop" anything.
This looks like a combined train. Perhaps there was some deal where they had to hook up two trains to run together. They combined all the power up front. You can see the baggage car in the middle and there are clearly two sightseer lounges.
I know nothing about it, but didn't the CZ used to have a second train attached to it and separated somewhere? Could this be it?
This looks like a combined train. Perhaps there was some deal where they had to hook up two trains to run together. They combined all the power up front. You can see the baggage car in the middle and there are clearly two sightseer lounges.
I know nothing about it, but didn't the CZ used to have a second train attached to it and separated somewhere? Could this be it?
Shawn
Service Attendant
Based on the first sections layout, that would be the Empire Builder...
sky12065
Conductor
Is it possible that some were being transported elsewhere for reassignment or repairs?
the_traveler
Engineer
Actually at one time the CZ had 3 train on the eastern half attached together - the CZ, the Desert Wind and the Pioneer!
What doesn't make sense is the baggage car in the middle of the train. :blink: That's why I think the other cars are being moved somewhere. Either for repair or for another reason.
wayman
Engineer
This was an ad from 1998. In the May 1998 release of Photoshop Adobe added "multiple undo", "color management", and the lasso tool as new features. Photoshop was cutting edge consumer software at the time, as it still is today, but it couldn't do anywhere near the sorts of things that are now possible and which we think of as "an hour's work by anyone who knows what they're doing". "Blending" wasn't added until 2000; "Healing Brush" in 2002; layer groups in 2003. So, while image manipulation has been around since at least the 1930s, even in 1998 it would have still been a process involving a lot of very skilled work largely with an actual photo/negative, not a computer program. The CIA or KGB could have done excellent image manipulation on this scale in 1998, but Amtrak could not have.
(Some years ago I saw a great coffee-table-book showing before-and-after versions of famous early Soviet photographs. As various formerly-important politicians were seen by Stalin as "undesirable" and exiled to Siberia, they were carefully removed from older official group photographs in an effort to rewrite history. The high level of craftsmanship and artistry that went into this, all done by hand, was astounding.)
Last edited by a moderator:
S
SUNSETLIMITED01
Guest
S
SUNSETLIMITED01
Guest
Five engines were pretty rare though, especially this one.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1087802
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1087802
printman2000
Engineer
That was probably when they were hauling a bunch of box cars on the end of the train.
transit54
Conductor
What kind of paint scheme does the P42 in that photo have? I've never seen anything like that with the extra blue stripe on the bottom and the smaller Amtrak logo to the right of the door. Was that a standard paint scheme for a while or just something experimental?
amtrakwolverine
Engineer
whats also more unusual is there's a dash-8 in there
printman2000
Engineer
I would assume that is a very early version of the current paint scheme. They probably simplified it a bit since then.
Ryan
Court Jester
It was the precursor to the current "Phase V" scheme. I recall reading something on the site about it, but can't remember what the thread was discussing.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Yes. The first P42s were shipped with the Phase V scheme as seen in the photo-- the extra logo on the cab door, extra stripe of paint... as the orders of P42s were filled they simplified the scheme and fine-tuned it. Many P42s still have *that* scheme on them, just look for the mini-Amtrak logo by the cab door, that means you got a "prototype" or the Phase V scheme!
cpamtfan
OBS Chief
No, I don't belive there are any like this anymore. The last one was spotted in 2005, and that was around the time the last phase 3 P42 was spotted. I'm telling you the ad is photoshopped. At the front is a EB consist, Mid train theres a baggage car, and towards the rear there are two Sightseer Lounges. I rest my case.
cpamtfan-Peter
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Hmm.. I'll keep my eyes out.
And note Peter, I never made any claim to the photo's validity.
And note Peter, I never made any claim to the photo's validity.
printman2000
Engineer
If they were editing the photo, why leave the baggage car in? They could have simply edited it out. Also, I only see one sightseer lounge after the mid baggage. I think you are seeing some shadows. It also does not explain having 5 locos.
I do not see anything that proves it is an edited photo.
EB_OBS
Conductor
Baggage cars are shorter than the Superliner cars. While I do see some anomaly near the center of the consist, it doesn't appear to be the full length of a car. Perhaps evidence of photoshopping but honestly hard to say for sure.
cpamtfan
OBS Chief
If you look very closely, you can see two Sightseers on the last consist. This has to be a photoshop, why would there be two full Superliner consists combined?
cpamtfan-Peter
I've blown it up and cropped a bit for more detail. Maybe this will help. How many cars are there? Is a baggage car just not visible behind the last engine?
Is there a PPC car in that mix? Some roof heights don't match.
The first high level car behind the engines could be a transdorm,. No upper level door way.
Is there a PPC car in that mix? Some roof heights don't match.
The first high level car behind the engines could be a transdorm,. No upper level door way.
Last edited by a moderator:
wayman
Engineer
I don't believe the photo is edited. However, you're right that there are two Sightseers together. Here's my reading of the consist, having blown the photo up in Photoshop and drawn lines to separate the cars. Cars in parentheses are wild guesses; cars not in parentheses are fairly clear from the photograph. It's an eleven-car consist followed by a nine-car consist, roughly as follows:
Baggage (assumed, not visible)
Transdorm
(Sleeper?)
(Sleeper?)
(Sleeper?)
(Sleeper?)
(Diner?)
Sightseer
(Coach?)
(Coach?)
(Coach?)
Baggage
(Transdorm?)
(Sleeper?)
(Sleeper?)
Sightseer (replacing Diner?)
Sightseer
(Coach?)
(Coach?)
(Coach?)
It doesn't seem to match the hey-day California Zephyr/Desert Wind/Pioneer consists I've found online, but that's my best guess for what we're seeing here, which would say this is a photograph from the early '90s that someone in marketing decided to use in 1998 even though it wasn't remotely representative of Amtrak's trains at that point.
the_traveler
Engineer
Even if it was the CZ/DW/Pioneer, why would a baggage car be in the middle of the consist? :huh: There is no way to go from 1 part of the train to the other - even for the crew - without going outside. Unless there was a third trans-dorm - but why? :huh:
- Status
