Empire Builder and the Souris River

[Eric308]

After nearly 10 and a half days of being out of service, one of the tracks through Minot was reopened at around 9:00 PM Central Time on Monday, July 4. Since then, a continuous fleet of freight trains has traversed the still-soggy tracks through the city. The trains are being asked to go 10 mph east of the Mouse River bridge and at a walking speed west of the bridge. So far, so good.

That's excellent news and we appreciate the updates. Are you actually there in Minot?

 

[Nickrapak]

I imagine that BNSF will want to do a more careful inspection of the bridges before letting Amtrak across. But with the river dropping steadily, that should be complete by the end of the week. The next question is whether Amtrak will re-start service using the direct route from Minot to Fargo (bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks) or whether they will wait for the line through Devils Lake to reopen. The Devils Lake line crosses the Souris River near Towner, and the track in that area is in pretty bad shape. Furthermore, since Towner is about 60 miles downstream of Minot, it will take longer for the river to recede there.

Photos taken near Towner on June 30:

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-07-01a.pdf

Mark

Those photos look really bad. There is probably several million dollars worth of damage there, and since it's not a priority route for BNSF, it might take a while before it gets repaired. We will probably be seeing the Minot-Fargo bypass operating for a long time.

 

[anir dendroica]

From BNSF today:

07/05/2011
Update Report: Minot, North Dakota Area Flooding

To: All Impacted Customers July 5, 2011

Update Report: Minot, North Dakota Area Flooding

As stated in the Service Advisory issued Friday, June 24, 2011, BNSF reported that both main tracks at Minot, North Dakota were closed to rail traffic due to flooding.

- Main track two returned to service 9:00 p.m. CT on July 4, 2011

- Main track one is estimated to return to service at midweek

Customers will continue experience 24-48 hours delays on traffic over the next week as crews and equipment are returned to balance, and congestion from the track outage is alleviated.

Please see bnsf.com/customers/weather-interruptions for maps and additional information. If you have any questions, please contact BNSF Customer Support at 1-888-428-2673 option 4, option 3.

 

[mwmnp]

After nearly 10 and a half days of being out of service, one of the tracks through Minot was reopened at around 9:00 PM Central Time on Monday, July 4. Since then, a continuous fleet of freight trains has traversed the still-soggy tracks through the city. The trains are being asked to go 10 mph east of the Mouse River bridge and at a walking speed west of the bridge. So far, so good.

That's excellent news and we appreciate the updates. Are you actually there in Minot?

No, I've actually been following along using an online audio feed and updates from a BNSF employee I know in Minot.

 

[CMH David]

I do hope the EB is up and running soon but we did decide to change our plans for July 20th. Since our cruise leaves from Vancouver on July 23rd and we couldn't leave before 20th we decided to take the Southwest Chief on July 20th. We got the last roomette. We seriously considered the CZ but plane flights, price and timing worked out best to take the SC and end our train trip in Los Angeles and then catch a flight to Vancouver. When I called Amtrak they did not charge us any extra due to the travel disruption. So while the EB might be back running on July 20th I didn't want to take the chance that it would not being running and not find out until all the roomettes were gone on other trains and flights would have been too pricy becasue of it being less than two weeks out.

Since this is our first train trip are we suppose to tip the SCA and if so how much?

 

[Eric308]

I do hope the EB is up and running soon but we did decide to change our plans for July 20th. Since our cruise leaves from Vancouver on July 23rd and we couldn't leave before 20th we decided to take the Southwest Chief on July 20th. We got the last roomette. We seriously considered the CZ but plane flights, price and timing worked out best to take the SC and end our train trip in Los Angeles and then catch a flight to Vancouver. When I called Amtrak they did not charge us any extra due to the travel disruption. So while the EB might be back running on July 20th I didn't want to take the chance that it would not being running and not find out until all the roomettes were gone on other trains and flights would have been too pricy becasue of it being less than two weeks out.

Since this is our first train trip are we suppose to tip the SCA and if so how much?

I really don't know the guidelines....I usually slip them $20 from CBS (Columbus, WI) to PDX (two nights), and the same on the return leg. However, if the service is exemplary like it was my last return trip from Seattle, I tip more. She was so great I gave her $40. Some folks suggest paying up front for better service, but to me, that's not a tip. What if you get a real slouch regardless?

 

[mwmnp]

The first train through the flood zone was a test train of sorts containing approximately 50 cars loaded with rock (ballast). Here is a picture:



Minot, ND by kodachrome9319, on Flickr

The Amtrak station is visible in the background. Previous aerial photos taken during the worst of the flood showed that some water had breached the levee and started flooding the station. I have not seen a confirmation of how bad the damage is, but rumor is it came up about 4 inches on the ground level and presumably swamped the entire basement. This is particularly disappointing, since an extensive exterior and interior renovation that took 7 or so years to turn into a reality was completed just last year. The facility is owned by BNSF.

The Minot Daily News recognized the BNSF tracks reopening in an article in the Tuesday newspaper.

On an entirely different subject, but not exactly surprising since any good news on the Northern Transcon seems to have to be matched this year by bad news, 10 cars on a corn train derailed east of Havre on Tuesday afternoon. According to local media, the tracks will likely be shut down for 24 hours, which will only worsen the backlog of trains on the line.

 

[js]

This looks rather daunting! Still hoping to travel eastbound on the EB, leaving PDX on July 14th. Am I dreaming? I HATE to cancel and fly instead. The Amtrak site has nothing new posted as of this evening. Any advice from those in the know?

 

[Eric308]

This looks rather daunting! Still hoping to travel eastbound on the EB, leaving PDX on July 14th. Am I dreaming? I HATE to cancel and fly instead. The Amtrak site has nothing new posted as of this evening. Any advice from those in the know?

I would call Amtrak...ask for Veronica. She has been EXTREMELY helpful and patient.

 

[anir dendroica]

Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.

Mark

 

[Eric308]

Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.

Mark

Hey Mark...please explain what that means. Is it re-routing or what? What are the towns? Thanks.

 

[zephyr17]

Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.

Mark

Hey Mark...please explain what that means. Is it re-routing or what? What are the towns? Thanks.

Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.

 

[Eric308]

Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.

Mark

Hey Mark...please explain what that means. Is it re-routing or what? What are the towns? Thanks.

Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.

Thanks...I just found a ND railroad map and see exactly. Any idea how much time that would add? I had thought that the only problem was in the Minot area.

 

[NY Penn]

The tremendous backup of freight trains in the area would probably add more delays than any detour or shortcut possibly could.

 

[Ryan]

Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.

Mark

Hey Mark...please explain what that means. Is it re-routing or what? What are the towns? Thanks.

Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.

Thanks...I just found a ND railroad map and see exactly. Any idea how much time that would add? I had thought that the only problem was in the Minot area.

The Devil's Lake sub is the usual route of the Empire Builder, so it won't add any time (outside of all the time that will be lost because of slow orders).

 

[AlanB]

Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.

Thanks...I just found a ND railroad map and see exactly. Any idea how much time that would add? I had thought that the only problem was in the Minot area.

No, the Souris River after impacting Minot actually swings around and head back north to Canada. In doing so it impacted the Devils Lake sub causing major issues. If you look at one of the sets of photos linked to earlier in this topic, I think it was the ones from the 18th, you can see major flooding over the tracks near Towner.

That's on top of the ongoing problems with Devils Lake and its continued rise affecting the tracks.

 

[Eric308]

Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.

Thanks...I just found a ND railroad map and see exactly. Any idea how much time that would add? I had thought that the only problem was in the Minot area.

No, the Souris River after impacting Minot actually swings around and head back north to Canada. In doing so it impacted the Devils Lake sub causing major issues. If you look at one of the sets of photos linked to earlier in this topic, I think it was the ones from the 18th, you can see major flooding over the tracks near Towner.

That's on top of the ongoing problems with Devils Lake and its continued rise affecting the tracks.

Thanks again. Finally figuring this all out. Now I know the Mouse and the Souris are one in the same. That really had me confused for awhile. If nothing else, I found a great site and am breathing a little easier re: my 9/21 trip to PDX/SEA and return on the EB.

 

[michael Moffitt]

Looks like BNSF is getting back to some sense of more normal ops thru Minot:

As stated in the Service Advisory issued Friday, July 5, 2011, BNSF reported that main track one at Minot, North Dakota remained closed to rail traffic due to flooding.

· Main track two returned to service at 9:00 p.m. CT on July 4, 2011

· Main track one was returned to service at 6:30 p.m. CT on July 6, 2011

Customers will continue to experience 12-24 hour traffic delays over the next week as crews and equipment are returned to balance, and congestion from the track outage is alleviated.

 

[Kyeperk]

Just spoke with Amtrak Customer service tonight for the EB trip from Seattle to Chicago leaving 7/21. They didn't have a lot of info, but the woman I spoke to said it was iffy. Don

't know how much credence to put into what I heard. The forums here seem to be more on top of everything. At least that is what I hope.

 

[Paul]

Spoke to Amtrak rep today- EB canceled until the 13th. Amtrak will decide on the12th if additional cancelations are required.

 

[GlobalistPotato]

Customers will continue to experience 12-24 hour traffic delays over the next week as crews and equipment are returned to balance, and congestion from the track outage is alleviated.

Amtrak is one of those "customers", and they don't want to send in the Empire Builder just to see it get super-delayed.

 

[Altygrae]

Customers will continue to experience 12-24 hour traffic delays over the next week as crews and equipment are returned to balance, and congestion from the track outage is alleviated.

Amtrak is one of those "customers", and they don't want to send in the Empire Builder just to see it get super-delayed.

This makes a lot of sense but if it only takes about a week then the resumption of EB on the 14th is a reasonable guess.

I'll keep watching these sites to see who finally reports a successful through trip in either direction. Hoping we can get through on the 23rd of this month.

 

[CyBorg]

I am hoping to leave the 15th from LaCrosse, WI for Williston.

 

[js]

I cancelled the eastbound portion of our trip on the EB (from PDX to MKE) as we were scheduled to depart on July 14th and it didn't look likely. I had NO problem with the refund. We are still holding on to our return ticket (scheduled for July 28th) and I sincerely hope that things are worked out by then.

If anyone makes it through on the EB please post re: your experience. Thanks!

 

[Eric308]

I cancelled the eastbound portion of our trip on the EB (from PDX to MKE) as we were scheduled to depart on July 14th and it didn't look likely. I had NO problem with the refund. We are still holding on to our return ticket (scheduled for July 28th) and I sincerely hope that things are worked out by then.

If anyone makes it through on the EB please post re: your experience. Thanks!

According to the schedule, the first EB from PDX to CHI is on 7/15/11 and is "sold out". Any before that are routed on the CS/CZ. We shall see. I can't wait to hear from the first EB complete trip passenger.