Sunset Limited BULLETIN

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henryj

Conductor
Joined
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Houston, Texas
From Gene Poon at All Aboard All Aboard:

The Amtrak Board of Directors has authorized negotiations with Union

Pacific for daily Amtrak service on the Los Angeles-New Orleans Sunset

Route.

source: Robert Manning

Director, Rail Passenger Association of California

President, Southwest Rail Passenger Association
 
From Gene Poon at All Aboard All Aboard:
The Amtrak Board of Directors has authorized negotiations with Union

Pacific for daily Amtrak service on the Los Angeles-New Orleans Sunset

Route.

source: Robert Manning

Director, Rail Passenger Association of California

President, Southwest Rail Passenger Association
They don't mention a daily Sunset Limited, Henry. A conversation I had with some brass suggested they were going to be pressing ahead with the daily Texas Eagle.
 
From Gene Poon at All Aboard All Aboard:
The Amtrak Board of Directors has authorized negotiations with Union

Pacific for daily Amtrak service on the Los Angeles-New Orleans Sunset

Route.

source: Robert Manning

Director, Rail Passenger Association of California

President, Southwest Rail Passenger Association
They don't mention a daily Sunset Limited, Henry. A conversation I had with some brass suggested they were going to be pressing ahead with the daily Texas Eagle.
Yes gml. I can read. It says 'Sunset Route'. I just posted it because I thought it was of interest to the group. Personally, I don't care what they call the train as long as it becomes daily.
 
This is all fine and well, as long as it doesn't involve eliminating sleeper service on the SAS-NOL segment and replacing it with that stupid all-coach shuttle. I take sleepers out of Houston often enough that it would be quite a bummer.
 
I take sleepers out of Houston often enough that it would be quite a bummer.
IF they do make the LAX-SAS-CHI daily, they would probably tweak the times, and also eliminate the long overnight stop in SAS. That would also mean the SAS-NOL times would also be tweaked. (These are not the actual times.) So if the thru train would leave SAS at 9 PM, the NOL train may have to arrive SAS at like 6 PM, so it may leave HOU at like 2 PM. Do you still want a sleeper at 2 PM? :huh:
 
Here we go again... The "Sunset Limited" topic never dies. Pages and pages of speculation, ideals, consist make-up, schedules, stops...etc, and yet I betcha nothing will take place within the next year.

"I'll beleive it when I see it"
 
Do you still want a sleeper at 2 PM? :huh:
Keeping a one-seat ride, HOU-LAX or HOU-TUS, in a sleeper, would be very nice. Houston is the fourth largest city in the U.S., it would be pretty unfortunate if it lost sleeper service!
The important thing is to get the daily train running, whatever it's called, whatever it's schedule! A ride from HOS-SAS in coach isn't bad, 4 hrs. or so

in return for having daily service instead of trice :lol: weekly! This thread has had lots of action since it started, even the folks up north have contributed,

as a Texan I'd love to see every city in Texas have daily train service in both directions but real world ain't gonna happen till HSR gets going, Houston should have daily service to Dallas and San Antonio and New Orleans, and it will if they ever start the Lone Star Eagle from HOS-DAL and stop the silly bustitution from Longview to Houston! :eek:
 
Do you still want a sleeper at 2 PM? :huh:
Keeping a one-seat ride, HOU-LAX or HOU-TUS, in a sleeper, would be very nice. Houston is the fourth largest city in the U.S., it would be pretty unfortunate if it lost sleeper service!
I don't know what number they are, but I know that they are large.

You can't take a one seat ride BOS-ATL or BOS-MIA, let alone in a sleeper. The only sleeper going to BOS is from CHI - and that just recently resumed.
 
Which would you prefer: the current sleeper service 3x per week at HOS, or daily service with departures and arrivals midday? FYI, the tentative timeline for this has the TE going daily some time in the spring, and the departure from LAX will be around 10:30 p.m., with a stub train connection btwn SAS and NOL...this is from Amtrak brass...to whom I speak every time I go to work...
 
Which would you prefer: the current sleeper service 3x per week at HOS, or daily service with departures and arrivals midday? FYI, the tentative timeline for this has the TE going daily some time in the spring, and the departure from LAX will be around 10:30 p.m., with a stub train connection btwn SAS and NOL...this is from Amtrak brass...to whom I speak every time I go to work...

I am all for it and it can't happen too soon for me. Also, we have further confirmation from Bruce at URPA in his latest "This Week at Amtrak" that I assume will be posted above. Amtrak's board has approved the plan for a daily Sunset/Texas Eagle with a coach train east of SAS as far as NOL. Hooray.
 
Which would you prefer: the current sleeper service 3x per week at HOS, or daily service with departures and arrivals midday? FYI, the tentative timeline for this has the TE going daily some time in the spring, and the departure from LAX will be around 10:30 p.m., with a stub train connection btwn SAS and NOL...this is from Amtrak brass...to whom I speak every time I go to work...
I guess I'd rather have thrice-weekly one-seat service than having to change at SAS. I also find morning and evening arrivals and departures much more convenient than mid-day. Instead of all this focus on daily service, I'd MUCH rather see a restoration of Sunset Limited's service to Florida. Then, when enough equipment is available, it can be made daily.
 
Here we go again... The "Sunset Limited" topic never dies. Pages and pages of speculation, ideals, consist make-up, schedules, stops...etc, and yet I betcha nothing will take place within the next year.
"I'll beleive it when I see it"
When I first joined this forum July '08 there wasn't a snowball's chance in a fission reactor that Amtrak would be getting new rolling stock any time soon, and well...Viewliners are practically on the way, and there's a "big announcement" coming in January (which may be confirmation of the Viewliners or no Viewliners, but it's still something).
 
Which would you prefer: the current sleeper service 3x per week at HOS, or daily service with departures and arrivals midday? FYI, the tentative timeline for this has the TE going daily some time in the spring, and the departure from LAX will be around 10:30 p.m., with a stub train connection btwn SAS and NOL...this is from Amtrak brass...to whom I speak every time I go to work...
Well I'd prefer a daily Sunset Limited, but failing that, then I have to opt for the current schedule that does so much better revenue wise than will the daily train without sleepers. Consider the following:

The daily Palmetto with no sleepers took in $12.9 million in revenue for fiscal 2008, from 173,949 passengers. That works out to about $74.16 per passenger.

The current Sunset limited running 3 days a week took in $8.1 million in revenue, from 71,719 passengers. That works out to $112.94 per passenger. Running three days a week, with less than half the ridership, the little Sunset produced about 60% more revenue per passenger than the Palmetto did.
 
None of us have seen a schedule but I believe this would be the longest run (2728 miles) that Amtrak makes. I have to question the ability of the crew to keep the consist spiffy-spotless for that length of time.
 
Keeping a train spiffy and spotless is impossible when it does not come into the station from the yard in that condition. When I rode 21 in October, the train came into the station, and it was clear corners had been cut. The yard workers did not even put schedules on the train. And the cars were dirty too. The crew was pleasant and friendly thought.
 
Which would you prefer: the current sleeper service 3x per week at HOS, or daily service with departures and arrivals midday? FYI, the tentative timeline for this has the TE going daily some time in the spring, and the departure from LAX will be around 10:30 p.m., with a stub train connection btwn SAS and NOL...this is from Amtrak brass...to whom I speak every time I go to work...
Well I'd prefer a daily Sunset Limited, but failing that, then I have to opt for the current schedule that does so much better revenue wise than will the daily train without sleepers. Consider the following:

The daily Palmetto with no sleepers took in $12.9 million in revenue for fiscal 2008, from 173,949 passengers. That works out to about $74.16 per passenger.

The current Sunset limited running 3 days a week took in $8.1 million in revenue, from 71,719 passengers. That works out to $112.94 per passenger. Running three days a week, with less than half the ridership, the little Sunset produced about 60% more revenue per passenger than the Palmetto did.
I don't know how the Palmetto rates a comparison with the Sunset Limited. The Palmetto is a little day train on a route with three other trains. Most passengers are going short distances. The Sunset is a long distance train with most passengers taking much longer trips. The current 3 times a week service makes the Sunset the biggest looser in Amtrak's inventory. Something had to be done to fix that. I can't imagine why anyone would want to opt for only 3 times a week service just to get a sleeper seat for what is a mostly daylight ride. Three times a week service is the same as NO service. This change is probably the most positive thing Amtrak has done anywhere in years and the first positive thing they have done for the Sunset Route since before Katrina. The much maligned coach trains between SAS and NOL will for the first time since the Southern Pacific ran service on this route offer daily service at times normal people would utilize the service. It can only be taken in a positive note regardless of the lack of a sleeper. They intend to offer business class in it's place for those wanting to escape from the masses. In addition, passengers continuing through SAS west will be allowed to stay on the train until their connecting train is ready. So it will be a simple across the platform transfer. Even more important, this will for the first time establish a corridor style train in Texas with daily service between SAS, HOU and NOL. This is a huge step in a state that has shunned passenger rail in the past. Houston Metro also has plans for an intermodal facility to replace the current one room station which will serve metro, Amtrak and intercity bus. With TXDOT's recently established passenger rail division and this first step at establishing corridor style service Texas is finally moving toward establishing some passenger rail corridors. We finally will have something to build on. How it develops now will depend on how well we support it. Rather than all the negativism, it would be better if everyone got behind these new changes and worked to make them a success. It's a first and very important step. Through sleepers from SAS and restoration of NOL east to Florida are the next steps along with restoring the Houston-Dallas corridor followed by multiple departures on all the routes in the triangle. Start up date for this is reported to be April. Lets hope they stick to this timetable and get this thing on the road.
 
I don't know how the Palmetto rates a comparison with the Sunset Limited. The Palmetto is a little day train on a route with three other trains. Most passengers are going short distances. The Sunset is a long distance train with most passengers taking much longer trips.
It rates a comparison because if this plan goes through, then the existing Sunset becomes a Palmetto between NOL and SAS. In fact, at that point the Palmetto will actually travel 300 miles further than the replacement "Sunset" will, so it will actually be carrying passengers on longer trips than the replacement "Sunset". And therefore Amtrak will see a drop in revenue.

The current 3 times a week service makes the Sunset the biggest looser in Amtrak's inventory. Something had to be done to fix that. I can't imagine why anyone would want to opt for only 3 times a week service just to get a sleeper seat for what is a mostly daylight ride. Three times a week service is the same as NO service. This change is probably the most positive thing Amtrak has done anywhere in years and the first positive thing they have done for the Sunset Route since before Katrina. The much maligned coach trains between SAS and NOL will for the first time since the Southern Pacific ran service on this route offer daily service at times normal people would utilize the service. It can only be taken in a positive note regardless of the lack of a sleeper. They intend to offer business class in it's place for those wanting to escape from the masses.
I wouldn't argue that the 3 times a week service doesn't hurt the Sunset's numbers. But to fix that Amtrak should be making the Sunset as is daily, not downgrading the existing service to support some whimsical idea floated by railfans in California. Amtrak doesn't need another Chicago to LA train, yet; it needs a Florida to LA train, or at least for the moment a New Orleans to LA train.

And I haven't seen one study that shows that people will actually ride the daily train. If Amtrak had done some studies that show that increased ridership might actually offset the revenue loss, I might be a slight bit more inclined to support what I see as the second worst decision made by Amtrak regarding this route, behind only the failure to restore service east of NOL.

I also find it funny that Amtrak can somehow manage to hire and train enough crews to run the "Eagle" west of SAS in just a few months, but apparently they need 2 to 3 years to do it in the rest of the country. :unsure:

In addition, passengers continuing through SAS west will be allowed to stay on the train until their connecting train is ready. So it will be a simple across the platform transfer.
Please show me where Amtrak has guaranteed this. This would be the first time in the last probably 10 years that Amtrak would willing pay the crew to remain on the train, such that the passengers can remain on the train. Normally the second an Amtrak train hits the bumper blocks, the crew goes off duty and stops gettting paid, so they leave the train ASAP. No crew on board, no passengers on board.

Even more important, this will for the first time establish a corridor style train in Texas with daily service between SAS, HOU and NOL. This is a huge step in a state that has shunned passenger rail in the past. Houston Metro also has plans for an intermodal facility to replace the current one room station which will serve metro, Amtrak and intercity bus. With TXDOT's recently established passenger rail division and this first step at establishing corridor style service Texas is finally moving toward establishing some passenger rail corridors. We finally will have something to build on. How it develops now will depend on how well we support it. Rather than all the negativism, it would be better if everyone got behind these new changes and worked to make them a success. It's a first and very important step.
If Texas wants corridor service, that's fine by me. But corridor service shouldn't come at the expense of long distance service and the passengers served by that service. As for the improvements in Houston, bravo. I'm glad. But they don't need daily service to do that either.

Through sleepers from SAS and restoration of NOL east to Florida are the next steps along with restoring the Houston-Dallas corridor followed by multiple departures on all the routes in the triangle. Start up date for this is reported to be April. Lets hope they stick to this timetable and get this thing on the road.
I see nothing but a whimsical thought that Amtrak might one day restore a through sleeper between NOL and SAS. There are no guarantees, much less even a firm promise. If there were, I might be more supportive. Let's hope that Amtrak comes to its senses before they impliment this plan.

Sorry Henry, but I've seen nothing from Amtrak that convinces me that this will be a good thing for Amtrak, much less the people living along the Sunset route. :(
 
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I see nothing but a whimsical thought that Amtrak might one day restore a through sleeper between NOL and SAS. There are no guarantees, much less even a firm promise. If there were, I might be more supportive. Let's hope that Amtrak comes to its senses before they impliment this plan.
Sorry Henry, but I've seen nothing from Amtrak that convinces me that this will be a good thing for Amtrak, much less the people living along the Sunset route. :(
Well Alan, you and I will have to majorly disagree on this one. I live in Houston and for me it's the most positive thing I have seen from Amtrak in many years. I think the coach trains will be well patronized and a big success. Right now the eastbound Sunset comes through here at 4 in the morning. Who would use that? Amtrak has many examples of passengers being allowed to either board early or remain on the train after it's arrival. It's obvious that the Sunset is NOT going back to Florida. I understand 'sour grapes' but that has been the problem all along from the 'Florida' people. They have not supported the current train. Not tried to get improvements such as connections to Phoenix or a better timetable or anything related to the train west of New Orleans. All they care about is Florida. So now they reap the harvest of their negativism. For Texas this is a great event. With TEMPO running the train it will be a success, you can bet on that. Finally finally finally we will have a San Antonio-Houston-New Orleans train someone can use on a regular basis. Something that fills a real transportation need. At this point, who cares about Florida. You people didn't support the current Sunset so who needs your support now.
 
Frankly Henry, the more I think about this, the worse I think this plan will be for Texas. I'm not normally the skeptic in my family, that's my wife's job. :lol:

But I'm beginning to believe that this is an attempt by Amtrak to drop the money loosing Sunset. It wouldn't surprise me if within 5 years of implimentation to see Amtrak turn to Texas and say "hey this daily train is really a service for Texas. If you want it to continue, you have to pay the losses. Otherwise we're going to cancel the train."

This is basically what Amtrak did east of NOL too. They used Katrina as an excuse to cancel service and are now holding the states or Florida, Mississippi, and Alabama hostage to pay for a resumption of service. It may or may not take a hurricane to susped the service first, but somehow I'm beginning to believe that the master plan here is to get Texas, perhaps with a bit of help from Louisiana, to pay for the train. And Texas already has a track record of paying for service now, as they help pay for the Heartland Flyer.

I hope to god that I'm wrong about this, but again, the more I think about this the more I'm becoming convinced that this is part of the master plan. Amtrak is rushing off to do this without proper study, they are rushing to get things daily west of SAS when they've clearly stated in every other study that it will take 2+ years to train crews. Something isn't right here.
 
Amtrak has many examples of passengers being allowed to either board early or remain on the train after it's arrival.
Please cite one current example of Amtrak passengers being allowed to remain on an Amtrak train that has just arrived at its final destination.

You people didn't support the current Sunset so who needs your support now.
I'm not sure who "you people" is, but I think that pretty much everyone on this forum has always supported the current Sunset.

I know that I have, in fact almost six months ago to the day, I was standing on the ground in Houston talking with serveral members of this forum as we waited for Chris (Saxman) to board the train.
 
Frankly Henry, the more I think about this, the worse I think this plan will be for Texas. But I'm beginning to believe that this is an attempt by Amtrak to drop the money loosing Sunset. It wouldn't surprise me if within 5 years of implimentation to see Amtrak turn to Texas and say "hey this daily train is really a service for Texas. If you want it to continue, you have to pay the losses. Otherwise we're going to cancel the train."
Alan I just don't share you negative thoughts. Amtrak is entering a new era where passenger trains are relavent to the whole transportation picture. TXDOT has set up a passenger rail division for the first time ever. Our Senator KBH is a big Amtrak supporter and is now running for Governor. I see this as a great leap forward for Texas. If it's some kind of plot to drop the Sunset Route service then you can kiss all long distance trains goodbye and that would be political suicide for Amtrak. This decision was not made overnight and it's not some knee jerk reaction. The Sunset Route was included in Amtrak's RPI in the March Amtrak Ink where they made this statement: "We need to re-engineer every aspect of this train. That means redirecting everything from food to scheduling to Marketing--so that it's more customer-oriented. We're conduction a total examination of the existing model to better match customer expectations, maximize revenue opportunities and get the most out of this service" I see these developments as the end result of those studies. The I10 route between SAS-HOU-NOL is heavily congested. Daily service along this route can't help but succeed. We should all be getting behind these changes. It's a first step for Texas and a good one. Better things are coming.
 
Amtrak has many examples of passengers being allowed to either board early or remain on the train after it's arrival.
Please cite one current example of Amtrak passengers being allowed to remain on an Amtrak train that has just arrived at its final destination.

You people didn't support the current Sunset so who needs your support now.
I'm not sure who "you people" is, but I think that pretty much everyone on this forum has always supported the current Sunset.

I know that I have, in fact almost six months ago to the day, I was standing on the ground in Houston talking with serveral members of this forum as we waited for Chris (Saxman) to board the train.
Upon farther review as they say in the NFL, me thinks that Alan is correct about this Henry! I'm in favor of a daily train everywhere in Texas but it's not gonna happen unless Texas pays for it and getting money out of the Leg is like asking them to support Health care reform or support President Obama!

Daily service from NOL-LAX connecting in SAS with the Daily Eagle does seem the way to go! Alan, you said give an example of pax staying on the train upon arrival, SAS is it with the sleeper and coach cut out for overnight awaiting the Sunset departure! IINM the crew aboard the cut outs are paid to stay aboard all night!

I applaud Henry for his enthusiasm and positive thoughts, once again a compromise is the best solution, that's how our country and life works best!

Alan is really correct about the rush to start up by Amtrak, the lack of studies about loads and revenue is blatant, so is the 2-3 years to train OBS and the building of stations East of NOL is another red herring! :rolleyes:
 
I'm glad for those that want this service to commence. My fierce objection is the Amcan train with its nuclear reactor they call an oven that will be the sole source of food, (and probably first class seats on one end) for the 15 hour journey between NOL and SAS. Been there, done that and honestly thought we were radiation free when the City went to Superliner. I'm sure someone on here remembers Mother Henry Knowles and his nuclear re-actor in the Am-dinette on the City when it was single level. BAH-HUMBUG !!! :cool:
 
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Aloha

We have had a lot of discussion about the SSL having Daily Service and Restoring the full route. What has crossed my mind is possibly Service for Mon.-Fri. and then something Different for Sat.-Sun. Fi considering weekends differently this might benefit other routes. On Multiday trips this might not work, but it might considering the load for departure day.
 
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