Parlour Cars gone?

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

I'll start with the "Meteor" since it was mentioned (and that is the one I always worked), then talk about the "Starlight."

The "Meteor" is a MIA based train which currently uses four trainsets to make up the trip cycles. Prior to 2004 as bat51 mentioned, it used three. This was possible by because of the 7:00 AM departure out of MIA and the 10:20 AM arrival into NYP the next day. After arrival at NYP, while the OBS crew went to the hotel for their day room accomodations, the train went to SSY for cleaning, mechanical, etc. At 4:00 PM the OBS crew left the hotel to report to the train at SSY, at which that about 5:30 PM we were permitted to board the equipment and begin setting up the train. NYC reddie crew was only available to assist our MIA/JAX OBS crews with the delivery of the stock, etc. We had to do the actual set up of our train. A yard conductor and engineer then moved the train at about 6:15 PM to NYP station. Last minute stuff such as the pre-trip inspections (some of which were made at the yards) were made such as the brake test, etc, and the train was turned over to the outbound T&E personel (engineer and conductors). The train left NYP around 7:00 PM for the return trip to FL. At that time of day there were three trainsets in operation covering the "Silver Meteor." Along with us leaving NYP, there was that day's #98 which had left MIA some twelve hours earlier that morning, and the day before's train out of NYP which was nearing the end of it's trip somewhere around SBG-WPB (if they were all on-time that is..... LOL).

I believe the "Starlight" still uses four trainsets due to all the time in the schedule (for obvious reasons we'll leave unsaid here). If my memory serves me correct, the "Starlight" operated in this same fashion as the "Meteor" only with LAX as the turn around point for th equipment. This train is a LAX based train and was so at that time, so the OBS crew still had a four day trip total to SEA with that overnight there as well as the equipment. But on the day they arrived home from their trip at LAX, the train was cleaned and ready for the outbound OBS crew starting their first day of their trip. If the train was staffed out of SEA crewbase, then managment probably could have scheduled the OBS crews on a three day cycle like the "Meteor" in the East.

Over in NOL, the "City" operates in the same fashion as the "Meteor," but the equipment is "run-through" (as previously mentioned by another poster). The NOL based OBS crew still "day-rooms" and leaves out of CHI on the same day they arrive, thus allowing a three day cycle for their schedule. I think the "City's" equipment turns for the "Texas Eagle?" (not sure about that one......... how bout it trainboy... you worked the City of NOL)

So all in all, it mainly depends on how the scheduling is handled. I not sure about the "Starlight" and the "City of NOL," but the "Meteor" didn't have a whole heck of a lot of padding in its schedule at the time it operated with three trainsets. And like the "Starlight" is now, it is virtually impossible to accomplish that with all the varibles involved.

OBS....

 

[AmtrakFan]

OBS,

The CNO Turns to the Texas Eagle, before that it turned the Empire Builder.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

OBS,The CNO Turns to the Texas Eagle, before that it turned the Empire Builder.

I thought it did at one time turn to the "Builder," but wasn't sure.

I will have to consult with one of my co-workers who transfered back home to LAX from MIA a couple of years ago. He has twenty years of service along with working the "Starlight", so he will be able to correct me if I am wrong in my previous post. Hopefully he will see this. I am almost sure, but I just can't fully remember as I haven't spent much time at LAX crewbse. When your on vacation, the last thing you wanna do is go to "work" and talk about work! LOL.....

OBS...

 

[sechs]

I think that people need to understand that this isn't a question of possible or impossible, but of scheduling. It *can* be done.

 

[Guest]

I think that people need to understand that this isn't a question of possible or impossible, but of scheduling. It *can* be done.

Please feel free to explain how you can put 36 hours into 24.

 

[battalion51]

Let's see. Assuming OBS is correct, they could accomplish the daily service with trainsets, simply turning the set in LAX same day. Now it is also possible that because of the terrible time keeping of this train they have added more padding to the schedule since it last ran that way, whenever that was. If the times were adjusted so that you had a morning arrival in LAX and an afternoon departure it could be done.

 

[Guest]

Let's see. Assuming OBS is correct, they could accomplish the daily service with trainsets

Really? Now that's just plain crazy!

:lol:

 

[jimmyneoncom]

I still don't understand why the old-hand train worker I spoke to (and who got our largest tip, more on that in a sec) told me that "The two parlour cars have to be shared with eight trains". Not only are there THREE parlour cars (or so I read) but far fewer than 8 trains on the Starlight run, it seems.

If its appropriate, allow me to ask a question: How much should one expect from one's sleeper car attendant? It is proper and adaquate for the attendant to 'do his job, but no more' and what about comparing attendants and expecting to have someone who goes above and beyond, perhaps by explaining things, such as why it is so warm at night or saying "Next time try to ask for a lower level car, which is cooler"....someone who makes conversation and leaves you feeling appreciated - as a customer. Should you always tip, no matter what?

Let's see. Assuming OBS is correct, they could accomplish the daily service with trainsets

Really? Now that's just plain crazy!

:lol:

 

[AlanB]

I still don't understand why the old-hand train worker I spoke to (and who got our largest tip, more on that in a sec) told me that "The two parlour cars have to be shared with eight trains". Not only are there THREE parlour cars (or so I read) but far fewer than 8 trains on the Starlight run, it seems.

Amtrak owns 5 Parlour cars numbers, 39970, 39972, 39973, 39974, 39975. Sadly many of them have been sidelined with problems this year. As for trainsets assigned to the route, there should only be four under the present schedule. I had read something this summer that said because of the huge delays that had been occuring during the spring and summer, that Amtrak had actually assigned a 5th trainset to the route, but I haven't seen confirmation of that.

But Amtrak would never have 8 trainsets assigned to the route, they simply don't have enough equipment for that. At present they'd have to cancel another route in order to devote that much equipment to the route.

If its appropriate, allow me to ask a question: How much should one expect from one's sleeper car attendant? It is proper and adaquate for the attendant to 'do his job, but no more' and what about comparing attendants and expecting to have someone who goes above and beyond, perhaps by explaining things, such as why it is so warm at night or saying "Next time try to ask for a lower level car, which is cooler"....someone who makes conversation and leaves you feeling appreciated - as a customer. Should you always tip, no matter what?

It's always appropriate to ask questions, that why this forum is here.

What you ask is however a tough question and you'll find many different answers to the question. For me personally, only once have I never tipped a sleeping car attendant. In my case I was really debating whether to give him a tip or not, since his service had been so poor. He however made the decision easy for me, when he wasn't even at the door to collect tips when I detrained in Chicago.

Otherwise, I've always given at least a small tip to the attendant. I've also handed out a few whoppers to some who really went above and beyond the call of duty.

One should always expect the attendant to do his/her job, after all that is why they are there and what they are getting paid for. If they aren't doing their job, then there is certainly no reason for you to tip them. I'm of the mind that if they've at least done their basic job, they should get something in the way of a tip from me. And of course if they go beyond and above the call of duty, then I'll tip more.

 

[frj1983]

I think that people need to understand that this isn't a question of possible or impossible, but of scheduling. It *can* be done.

Please feel free to explain how you can put 36 hours into 24.

Well Guest,

Maybe you can tell us what you think...you keep saying it's impossible but don't tell us why???????

 

[Trogdor]

The current one-way running time of the Coast Starlight is 35 hours southbound, 34h15 northbound. Put those two numbers together, and you get total traveling time of 69 hours and 15 minutes.

In order to offer daily departures with three trainsets, the total cycle time of a consist would have to be under 72 hours. While the round-trip running time is under 72 hours, this does not provide time for equipment servicing (it takes more than 2 hours and 45 minutes to service the train after a trip, and that only assumes servicing on one end, not the other). This also does not provide for any delays.

Now, if, by "scheduling" you mean pretending that Union Pacific is capable of running anything on time, and pretending that the train can run faster than it currently does in certain sections, then sure, it could be just a matter of scheduling. However, regardless of how you look at it, under today's conditions the Coast Starlight simply cannot operate with only three trainsets and still offer daily departures from each end.

 

[Guest]

Thank you rmadisonwi. Well said.

 

[jimmyneoncom]

Regarding delays, it is my understanding that the tracks are not owned by Amtrak and that freight has priority. I've read a lot of complaints about delays on the Starlight but I believe that most of them are not Amtraks fault. I've also heard that on the East Coast Amtrak shares track priority with freight trains, "They get along a lot better on the East Coast" is what I was told. Also, during this last RT from Seattle to LA we had NO delays that alterted the schedule - in fact, we arrived in Seattle early. We were told that delays have now been minimized, but I don't know why.

On our previous RT we had all kinds of problems, nearly every problem possible: The engine broke down 2/3rds of the way through so we had an extra night on the train before getting to LA. I don't remember during which leg but we got so behind schedule because of freight trains that the train workers had all exceeded their permissible working hours; we sat at that stop where there's an antiue engine on the West side of the tracks (surrounded in fencing) for quite some time, walking around and socializing while a new shift had to TAKE TAXIS all the way from LA! Imagine what that cost Amtrak! Then on the way back our new train attendant forgot to equalize the pressure in our Delux Room toilet, and we couldn't use it for most of the trip. The train finally arrived in Seattle after midnight, after the ferries had stopped running. We took a fifty dollar taxi to the ferry terminal, went inside at one a.m. and prepared to wait out the night, but it wasn't long before someone found us and made us leave the ferry terminal! We ended up sitting on a bench all night, wearing most of the clothes we had packed (2 pair of socks, etc.) We weren't mad because we didn't see it as Amtrak's fault - but none-the-less, Amtrak refunded our ENTIRE round trip tickets! Add the cost of those taxis and it's hard to imagine how Amtrak could stay in business with such overhead. But like I said, things have improved since August, it seems.

I think that people need to understand that this isn't a question of possible or impossible, but of scheduling. It *can* be done.

Please feel free to explain how you can put 36 hours into 24.

Well Guest,

Maybe you can tell us what you think...you keep saying it's impossible but don't tell us why???????

 

[George Harris]

Jimmy, others will probably imporve on this but:

IN theory at least, Amtrak is supposed to have priority. however some railroads are better at observing the spirit of this than others. Of the big four RR's in the US the observance level from best to worst appears to be 1. BNSF, 2. NS, 3. CSX, 4. UP. There is or used to be a large gap between No. 2 and No. 3. CN/IC seems to generally be good. Part, but not all the UP problems have been the general conditions of tracks on the ex-SP routes used by the Coast Starlight and the Sunset.

"We were told that delays have now been minimized, but I don't know why."

A lot of work has been done on the northern half of their part of the Coast Starlight route in the last couple of years, and a lot of that is nearing completion. This has been the major factor in the improvements in timekeeping recently.

The Sunset route has been overwhelmed with trains to the point that UP was actually having to turn down some freight. They are in the process of doubletracking large segments of this, and as these segments go into service timekeeping on this line should also increase. The problem is they are not doubletracking east of El Paso, so the delays there will probably not get a lot better. There is also a large need for a change in corporate attitude.

George

 

[sechs]

under today's conditions the Coast Starlight simply cannot operate with only three trainsets and still offer daily departures from each end.

If you had read what was previously said in this thread, then you'd know that there's no disagreement there. Now, if you "pretend" to understand what was posted here, then you could "pretend" to have made a point.

If those who say that running the Coast Starlight with only three train sets is impossible want to cough up some real evidence of that, I (and I'm sure others) would like to see it. If you're only going to say, "it's impossible," or, "you can't do that with the current schedule," then save the electrons.

 

[rmgreenesq]

The Sunset route has been overwhelmed with trains to the point that UP was actually having to turn down some freight. They are in the process of doubletracking large segments of this, and as these segments go into service timekeeping on this line should also increase. The problem is they are not doubletracking east of El Paso, so the delays there will probably not get a lot better. There is also a large need for a change in corporate attitude.
George

I also understand that the UP has been marketing its rails and intermodal connection as an alternative to the Panama and Suez Canals. Instead of a container ship full of Chineese manufactured goods bound for Europe locking through the Panama or Suez Canal, ships dock at the Port of LA/Long Beach. These containers are unloaded off the ship and loaded on UP freight trains for a quick trip along the same rails the Sunset Ltd. uses to the port of Houston, New Orleans, or Jacksonville. Once reaching the Gulf/Atlantic Coast, they are loaded back onto ships for the trip across the Atlantic.

If the rails are overwhelmed with freight, this marketing plan must be working.

Rick

 

[jphjaxfl]

As long as Amtrak has operated the Coast Starlight as a daily train, 4 train sets of equipment have been required. The only way to change this would be to spend millions to upgrade the infrastucture to allow high speed running. In the early days of Amtrak and last few years of SP operation, the Cascade which operated between Oakland and Seattle under Amtrak and Oakland Portland did run tri-weekly. If you look back to S.P.'s fastest schedules in the 40s and 50s, the Portland-Oakland and San Francisco-Los Angeles via the Coast route both required 2 sets of equipment to cover the round trip. There were through sleeping cars at some periods and 4 cars would have been needed to cover each sleeping car line.

 

[Trogdor]

under today's conditions the Coast Starlight simply cannot operate with only three trainsets and still offer daily departures from each end.

If you had read what was previously said in this thread, then you'd know that there's no disagreement there. Now, if you "pretend" to understand what was posted here, then you could "pretend" to have made a point.

If those who say that running the Coast Starlight with only three train sets is impossible want to cough up some real evidence of that, I (and I'm sure others) would like to see it. If you're only going to say, "it's impossible," or, "you can't do that with the current schedule," then save the electrons.

No, why don't you show how (with either real or sample times) it can be done with three.

 

[Guest]

under today's conditions the Coast Starlight simply cannot operate with only three trainsets and still offer daily departures from each end.

If you had read what was previously said in this thread, then you'd know that there's no disagreement there. Now, if you "pretend" to understand what was posted here, then you could "pretend" to have made a point.

If those who say that running the Coast Starlight with only three train sets is impossible want to cough up some real evidence of that, I (and I'm sure others) would like to see it. If you're only going to say, "it's impossible," or, "you can't do that with the current schedule," then save the electrons.

No, why don't you show how (with either real or sample times) it can be done with three.

No kidding! Splain to us how it could be done with three.

 

[AlanB]

Guys, I'm a bit worried about the direction that this topic seems to be headed. :unsure:

Please, let's keep this discussion on friendly terms. I would prefer not to have to close and/or delete any posts from this topic.

Thanks.

 

[sechs]

No, why don't you show how (with either real or sample times) it can be done with three.

No kidding! Splain to us how it could be done with three.

I hate to waste more electrons on this, but at least two folks missed post number 76 in this thread:

I'll start with the "Meteor" since it was mentioned (and that is the one I always worked), then talk about the "Starlight."
The "Meteor" is a MIA based train which currently uses four trainsets to make up the trip cycles. Prior to 2004 as bat51 mentioned, it used three. This was possible by because of the 7:00 AM departure out of MIA and the 10:20 AM arrival into NYP the next day. After arrival at NYP, while the OBS crew went to the hotel for their day room accomodations, the train went to SSY for cleaning, mechanical, etc. At 4:00 PM the OBS crew left the hotel to report to the train at SSY, at which that about 5:30 PM we were permitted to board the equipment and begin setting up the train. NYC reddie crew was only available to assist our MIA/JAX OBS crews with the delivery of the stock, etc. We had to do the actual set up of our train. A yard conductor and engineer then moved the train at about 6:15 PM to NYP station. Last minute stuff such as the pre-trip inspections (some of which were made at the yards) were made such as the brake test, etc, and the train was turned over to the outbound T&E personel (engineer and conductors). The train left NYP around 7:00 PM for the return trip to FL. At that time of day there were three trainsets in operation covering the "Silver Meteor." Along with us leaving NYP, there was that day's #98 which had left MIA some twelve hours earlier that morning, and the day before's train out of NYP which was nearing the end of it's trip somewhere around SBG-WPB (if they were all on-time that is..... LOL).

I believe the "Starlight" still uses four trainsets due to all the time in the schedule (for obvious reasons we'll leave unsaid here). If my memory serves me correct, the "Starlight" operated in this same fashion as the "Meteor" only with LAX as the turn around point for th equipment. This train is a LAX based train and was so at that time, so the OBS crew still had a four day trip total to SEA with that overnight there as well as the equipment. But on the day they arrived home from their trip at LAX, the train was cleaned and ready for the outbound OBS crew starting their first day of their trip. If the train was staffed out of SEA crewbase, then managment probably could have scheduled the OBS crews on a three day cycle like the "Meteor" in the East.

Over in NOL, the "City" operates in the same fashion as the "Meteor," but the equipment is "run-through" (as previously mentioned by another poster). The NOL based OBS crew still "day-rooms" and leaves out of CHI on the same day they arrive, thus allowing a three day cycle for their schedule. I think the "City's" equipment turns for the "Texas Eagle?" (not sure about that one......... how bout it trainboy... you worked the City of NOL)

So all in all, it mainly depends on how the scheduling is handled. I not sure about the "Starlight" and the "City of NOL," but the "Meteor" didn't have a whole heck of a lot of padding in its schedule at the time it operated with three trainsets. And like the "Starlight" is now, it is virtually impossible to accomplish that with all the varibles involved.

OBS....

Now that OBS has conveniently done my part (thank you, OBS), why don't you guys do yours and PROVE your point.

 

[Guest]

Post 76 in no way helps expalin to me how this route can run with daily departures at each end.

I'll start with the "Meteor"

This thread isn't about the Meteor

I believe the "Starlight" still uses four trainsets due to all the time in the schedule (for obvious reasons we'll leave unsaid here).

I'm sorry. The reasons are not obvious to me. Can you please state them? It may help me, because It's MY understanding that the Starlight has ALWAYS used four train sets.

If the train was staffed out of SEA crewbase, then managment probably could have scheduled the OBS crews on a three day cycle

Call me stupid. I can't see how. Could anyone expalin how managment could do that, please?

Thank you.

 

[jimmyneoncom]

Perhaps, instead of arguing about how many train sets are used or ideally could be used, someone could call Amtrak and just ask them. It might take more than one call but then we could go on to a new topic, such as why Amtrak doesn't advertise.

Heck, I may as well get the ball rolling: When I talk to my friends about trains most of them are not even aware that they are available, let alone have sleeper cars. Can you imagine how many people would start taking the train, instead of the flying busses, if there were public service announcments on PBS mentioning Amtrak and what it offers? It isn't hard to prove that someone (or large group of powerful people) is out to cripple Amtrak by positing a few simple 'what-if's'.... What if Amtrak advertised, what if Amtrak or someone at Amtrak or who works or worked for Amtrak tried to educate the people en mass to this wonderful form of travel...? There must be some reason these things haven't happened.

Currently, 90% of us can just dream of getting a seat that converts to a bed on a airplane. We see these ads for Asian Airlines, etc. showing a private nook for the weallthy traveler as he waits out his 15 hours to get to Hong Kong. An ad could convey something like "Dreamed of cross country travel in your own room but can't afford the airline's First Class? Travel like a millionaire for a fraction of the cost - on Amtrak!"

Post 76 in no way helps expalin to me how this route can run with daily departures at each end.

I'll start with the "Meteor"

This thread isn't about the Meteor

I believe the "Starlight" still uses four trainsets due to all the time in the schedule (for obvious reasons we'll leave unsaid here).

I'm sorry. The reasons are not obvious to me. Can you please state them? It may help me, because It's MY understanding that the Starlight has ALWAYS used four train sets.

If the train was staffed out of SEA crewbase, then managment probably could have scheduled the OBS crews on a three day cycle

Call me stupid. I can't see how. Could anyone expalin how managment could do that, please?

Thank you.

 

[Anthony]

You have to be careful about advertising a sleeping car room as "living like a millionaire." I think most of us can agree that the quality of accommodation is not quite at that level

 

[AlanB]

You have to be careful about advertising a sleeping car room as "living like a millionaire." I think most of us can agree that the quality of accommodation is not quite at that level

Not to mention that you'd have other people wondering why the government is subsidizing Amtrak at all, if things are that good.