OMG- I have flown again

[jis]

Nothing compared to their new 737, in which I rode on the other day. The overhead bins are like those on widebodies, where the entire bin comes down from the ceiling. This gives you a lot more headroom, and a lot more spacious feel.

That is known as the "Boeing Sky Cabin" or something like that. As an option one can even get ambiance lighting with LEDs etc. It is kind of neat. Originally this layout was introduced in the 777.

 

[Anderson]

Thanks a bunch. And I know what you mean...last time I flew cross country, someone else booked the tickets and presumably got a special fare. I was willing to spring for the first class upgrade onsite on the way home (they were hawking such an upgrade at the gate...the flight wasn't empty, but it wasn't packed, either), but my ticket was ineligible.* As to the piles of codes, I recently saw a BA code listing...I think that listed something like 13 or 15 different codes (there were three "redemption" codes, three "full fare" codes, and then a bunch of discount/special codes including an ex-Concorde code.

*On the one hand, this seems dumb of the airline (they could at least offer the upgrade with the payment of an add-on surcharge...that might make me wince and pass, but either way it would be money in their pockets that they wouldn't have otherwise).

Well, at least they removed the Redemption Codes for Concorde. I have at least two friends who used BA and AA miles respectively to fly free on the Concorde.

Speaking of paying for upgrades, there are complex pecking orders for which fares will be offered upgrades first. So I am not surprised that they did not offer it to you. It is more than likely that there were dozens ahead of you in the pecking order for upgrades. Surprisingly even Union Contracts place deadheading crews within that pecking order somewhere, though that is becoming less common now.

Upgrades are such huge deal that the airlines with more capable IT systems actually display upgrade queue status in real time on displays at boarding gates these days, and you can bring up the upgrade list even on your smartphone using an appropriate App or using a web interface. For a large number of fare classes airlines offer automatic upgrade on as available basis, and depending on each individual's status in the frequent flyer program, their upgrades are cleared according to the pecking order established by the fare class and the FF status considered together with the time at which the person checked in. It is mind boggling how complex this can get!

Actually, IIRC there was only like one other person interested. It was that whomever had booked my ticket apparently got a "restricted" ticket class. Amtrak has some of the same things with their "weekly special" tickets.

TS: On Lufthansa, I was referring to the cabins (I think). It seems that those get overhauled every X years.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

He may be considering traveling by something other than Economy. I think there are significant differences between airlines for more or less the same fare when you get to Business Class.

True. Of course if you're in the market for Y+/E+ you're probably not seriously considering J or F.

It's actually kind of amazing to me that on the vast majority of airlines there isn't a real upgrade available for less than several times the cost of most coach tickets. If I want a better seat than my $1,500 economy ticket to Asia gets me, the next step up is $6,000. The next step up after that is $11,000. Seriously? That's all they have? I do occasionally enjoy the finer things in life but I don't see me spending an entire trip's budget on the flight alone and neither do most people I know. So we play this silly skimp and scratch loyalty game in order to maybe luck out with an award or a cleared cert or an op-up or what have you.

Why not simply charge a more reasonable rate for a demonstrably premium upgrade and get some paying customers in those seats instead of all these legions of ever so carefully groomed and segmented non-revs? I know that not everyone will be willing and able to let go of the rat race we've been participating in over the last three decades, but you'd think there would be more of a market for a service that offers genuine upgrades for a reasonable price.

I'm a pretty frequent flyer on AA, and I still think they offer a good product, reletive to the other US legacies.

IIRC AA was the mother of all frequent flier programs and fortress hubs. I wonder what it means now that they're on the verge of collapse. Perhaps that model has finally begun to run its course. When AA still had TWA's MRTC they pretty much owned tall people like me. Domestic, TATL, TPAC, you name it. Everything was AA or OW. When AA jettisoned MRTC they had nothing left to keep me loyal. Nothing. The last time I flew them was when Priceline somehow managed to take a $600 last minute airfare and turn it into a $250 flight on AA. Yeah, for that big of a discount I'll fly AA. The only question is if AA will still be there to fly me.

I really like the winged headrests in coach, and even their old MD-80's have a decent interior.

I enjoyed the extendable and bendable headrests as well, but boy could they use some cleaning. Nothing like a lot of slippery oils from the backs of innumerable strangers' heads to make you feel all nice and clean. h34r:

All in all, every US airline is about the same. It just depends on which employees you get and the circumstances under which an IROP may occur. I hope AA, my hometown airline, is able to make it through Ch. 11 without too much gutting or hostile takeovers from others.

There have been some exceptions to that over the years. Before VX and B6 there was Legend Airlines. Loved and used by many until it just happened to be targeted with blatantly anti-competitive behavior and severe legal obstructionism by none other than American Airlines. Who needs actual justice when you can simply exhaust all of the other party's finances? I bet AA wishes they had done something about WN back when they were no bigger than a gnat on a dog's behind. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the pilots and such, but it's sure hard to feel sorry for AA as a whole after all the bad blood they've created over the years.

 

[Anderson]

Texas: Not to put too fine a point on it, but on Amtrak you've often got a 3:1 difference between a roomette for one and a coach seat for one. The big issue with the airlines you're referring to isn't the proportion but the sheer scale of the difference.

Mind you, there are reasons I don't actually see myself going to Asia for a very long time. Even Europe is going to be a major affair for me if it ever happens.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Texas: Not to put too fine a point on it, but on Amtrak you've often got a 3:1 difference between a roomette for one and a coach seat for one. The big issue with the airlines you're referring to isn't the proportion but the sheer scale of the difference.

Oh, I couldn't agree more. There's no way I'm paying $3,500 each way for a revenue bedroom. Private Varnish? Sure! Fiberglass prison cell from the 1970's? No thanks.

 

[Anderson]

Texas: Not to put too fine a point on it, but on Amtrak you've often got a 3:1 difference between a roomette for one and a coach seat for one. The big issue with the airlines you're referring to isn't the proportion but the sheer scale of the difference.

Oh, I couldn't agree more. There's no way I'm paying $3,500 each way for a revenue bedroom. Private Varnish? Sure! Fiberglass prison cell from the 1970's? No thanks.

Fair point. I'm looking at shelling out a little over $1000 for a PV trip from Chattanooga to Washington (it's spread over several days, so there's that to make the cost less of a dent in some ways); the determining factor is my schedule for the fall more than anything.

Being a realist, if I had to pay cash for all of my trips, I'd probably be locked to three per year: Once to Iowa in December (easy advance purchase there), once to Florida at some point, and maybe once out to Arizona. There's a lot that I'd be at least partly frozen out of; my trips up to DC wouldn't be affected, and I could still make it up to NYC once or twice. But running across the country twice per year would simply be out of the question.

And all of that would make a dent in my wallet and require advance planning and so forth. As it is, I can afford to double up on FL and AZ, pay very little (I generally opt to pay the cheaper leg when going to Florida...but that's more about value maximizing than anything), and basically shoot from the hip (I grabbed the last Star out of Richmond ahead of Irene last year...I planned that trip a whopping 24 hours out as I recall).

 

[jmbgeg]

Texas: Not to put too fine a point on it, but on Amtrak you've often got a 3:1 difference between a roomette for one and a coach seat for one. The big issue with the airlines you're referring to isn't the proportion but the sheer scale of the difference.

Oh, I couldn't agree more. There's no way I'm paying $3,500 each way for a revenue bedroom. Private Varnish? Sure! Fiberglass prison cell from the 1970's? No thanks.

Fair point. I'm looking at shelling out a little over $1000 for a PV trip from Chattanooga to Washington (it's spread over several days, so there's that to make the cost less of a dent in some ways); the determining factor is my schedule for the fall more than anything.

Being a realist, if I had to pay cash for all of my trips, I'd probably be locked to three per year: Once to Iowa in December (easy advance purchase there), once to Florida at some point, and maybe once out to Arizona. There's a lot that I'd be at least partly frozen out of; my trips up to DC wouldn't be affected, and I could still make it up to NYC once or twice. But running across the country twice per year would simply be out of the question.

And all of that would make a dent in my wallet and require advance planning and so forth. As it is, I can afford to double up on FL and AZ, pay very little (I generally opt to pay the cheaper leg when going to Florida...but that's more about value maximizing than anything), and basically shoot from the hip (I grabbed the last Star out of Richmond ahead of Irene last year...I planned that trip a whopping 24 hours out as I recall).

I just took a a flight several more times. Spokane to Las Vegas. Vegas TO LA. LA to Seattle. Seattle to Spokane. hboy:

 

[jis]

It's actually kind of amazing to me that on the vast majority of airlines there isn't a real upgrade available for less than several times the cost of most coach tickets. If I want a better seat than my $1,500 economy ticket to Asia gets me, the next step up is $6,000. The next step up after that is $11,000.

There are only select routes that have the higher fare choice [international First Class] at all. And 4x for a sleeper when compared to coach surprises you? Why?

Seriously? That's all they have? I do occasionally enjoy the finer things in life but I don't see me spending an entire trip's budget on the flight alone and neither do most people I know. So we play this silly skimp and scratch loyalty game in order to maybe luck out with an award or a cleared cert or an op-up or what have you.

Actually depends on the airline. I have never had a problem getting an award upgrade clear on United to India. OTOH getting an upgrade to clear to Tel Aviv is another matter. But then you still have to pay some for it, and the good part is you get the class of travel award miles and not the class of original booking.

Why not simply charge a more reasonable rate for a demonstrably premium upgrade and get some paying customers in those seats instead of all these legions of ever so carefully groomed and segmented non-revs? I know that not everyone will be willing and able to let go of the rat race we've been participating in over the last three decades, but you'd think there would be more of a market for a service that offers genuine upgrades for a reasonable price.

Two words - "Yield Management". Actually even on EWR - DEL about 2/3rds of the front is paying passengers, and the rest are partly paying passengers, since they hardly ever do any comp upgrades, and in general they will not put deadhead crew in the front cabin if they can find an even partially paying passenger for a seat. And as I said on segments like EWR - TLV - much larger proportion of the cabin is paying passengers.

The situation is different in domestic flights in US because the First Class provides relatively little in the way of truly upgraded service that matters much, except in continuation segments of international flights or on PS service etc.

 

[JayPea]

Texas: Not to put too fine a point on it, but on Amtrak you've often got a 3:1 difference between a roomette for one and a coach seat for one. The big issue with the airlines you're referring to isn't the proportion but the sheer scale of the difference.

Oh, I couldn't agree more. There's no way I'm paying $3,500 each way for a revenue bedroom. Private Varnish? Sure! Fiberglass prison cell from the 1970's? No thanks.

Fair point. I'm looking at shelling out a little over $1000 for a PV trip from Chattanooga to Washington (it's spread over several days, so there's that to make the cost less of a dent in some ways); the determining factor is my schedule for the fall more than anything.

Being a realist, if I had to pay cash for all of my trips, I'd probably be locked to three per year: Once to Iowa in December (easy advance purchase there), once to Florida at some point, and maybe once out to Arizona. There's a lot that I'd be at least partly frozen out of; my trips up to DC wouldn't be affected, and I could still make it up to NYC once or twice. But running across the country twice per year would simply be out of the question.

And all of that would make a dent in my wallet and require advance planning and so forth. As it is, I can afford to double up on FL and AZ, pay very little (I generally opt to pay the cheaper leg when going to Florida...but that's more about value maximizing than anything), and basically shoot from the hip (I grabbed the last Star out of Richmond ahead of Irene last year...I planned that trip a whopping 24 hours out as I recall).

I just took a a flight several more times. Spokane to Las Vegas. Vegas TO LA. LA to Seattle. Seattle to Spokane. hboy:

John, you really ARE trying to get your membership revoked, aren't you?? :lol: My AGR trip I'm taking with my uncle in July involves such heresy too: Flying from Spokane to Fort Lauderdale. :blink: