Emp Serv to GCT, LSL NYP Suspended, Other NYP Changes 2018

[jld]

I imagine checked bags will have to go to boston and then come back down the overnight regional to NYP, if GCT doesn't have the facilities...but that would be confusing if baggage is delivered other than to the ticketed terminus

AFAIK, the only checked baggage between NY and Albany is the LSL. Boston passengers did across the platform transfer for an extended period while the work was done in Albany, I realize it involved less passengers, but the it wasn't too bad. How was baggage dealt with then?

There was a baggage car on the Shuttle 448/449 with luggage transferred from one train to another. There is not typically any other train with baggage service over the Empire Corridor although the connecting Empire Service train could temporarily run with a baggage car like the NER did for the Crescent last year. However, an area for checked bags would need to be set up at Grand Central.

 

[cpotisch]

I imagine checked bags will have to go to boston and then come back down the overnight regional to NYP, if GCT doesn't have the facilities...but that would be confusing if baggage is delivered other than to the ticketed terminus

That doesn't seem particularly efficient, since passengers to NYC would have to wait several hours for their bags. Probably a lot easier to just stick a baggage car on the connecting Empire Service.

 

[jis]

I imagine checked bags will have to go to boston and then come back down the overnight regional to NYP, if GCT doesn't have the facilities...but that would be confusing if baggage is delivered other than to the ticketed terminus

That doesn't seem particularly efficient, since passengers to NYC would have to wait several hours for their bags. Probably a lot easier to just stick a baggage car on the connecting Empire Service.

That would involve setting up a baggage office at Grand Central though. I don't think there is any plan to set up any significant establishment at GCT for operating the diverted trains there, let alone a baggage office.

 

[PRR 60]

Do the Viewliner II baggage cars have trainline cables and connections for push-pull?

 

[cpotisch]

I imagine checked bags will have to go to boston and then come back down the overnight regional to NYP, if GCT doesn't have the facilities...but that would be confusing if baggage is delivered other than to the ticketed terminus

That doesn't seem particularly efficient, since passengers to NYC would have to wait several hours for their bags. Probably a lot easier to just stick a baggage car on the connecting Empire Service.

That would involve setting up a baggage office at Grand Central though. I don't think there is any plan to set up any significant establishment at GCT for operating the diverted trains there, let alone a baggage office.

The overnight NERs get into NYP at 2:30 AM. That would mean that pax with checked bags would have to get from GCT to NYP, wait around for probably seven hours well past midnight, and claim their bags. I doubt that would work.

 

[cpotisch]

Do the Viewliner II baggage cars have trainline cables and connections for push-pull?

I believe they do not.

 

[jis]

The overnight NERs get into NYP at 2:30 AM. That would mean that pax with checked bags would have to get from GCT to NYP, wait around for probably seven hours well past midnight, and claim their bags. I doubt that would work.

Yes. Not convenient, though they do not have to run to Penn Station and wait there for seven hours. In effect they will get their baggage the next day at Penn Station. They can go to their hotel or home and sleep the night.

One thing that Amtrak could do is something like what United offers ... shipping the bag via package service to a destination address, so that picking up at a station is not involved. Since this is just a temporary situation, a temporary contract with the likes of UPS might just work out better. But of course there is a cost involved.

 

[Northeastern292]

Do the Viewliner II baggage cars have trainline cables and connections for push-pull?

I believe they do not.

And with Amtrak having to do push-pull into GCT, not having that is going to be an issue.
I don't know the mechanics, but how hard would it to make the entire Amtrak fleet 100% push-pull compatible?

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[cpotisch]

I don't know the mechanics, but how hard would it to make the entire Amtrak fleet 100% push-pull compatible?

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Amtrak Forum mobile app

A lot. There are more than 1500 train cars in the Amtrak system. Assuming 25% are already push-pull compatible, that leaves around 1140 cars to retrofit. I don't know the exact costs but I can't imagine that being cheap.

 

[Northeastern292]

I don't know the mechanics, but how hard would it to make the entire Amtrak fleet 100% push-pull compatible?

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Amtrak Forum mobile app

A lot. There are more than 1500 train cars in the Amtrak system. Assuming 25% are already push-pull compatible, that leaves around 1140 cars to retrofit. I don't know the exact costs but I can't imagine that being cheap.

Gotcha. It still boggles my mind that Amtrak turns trains in DC and Boston, despite both being stub-end terminals for the most part (less so DC, with the through tracks for the trains to the South).
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[PVD]

If you don't wye, loop, or run the power around, aside from the push pull wiring, you need cab cars, cabbage, npcu, or an engine/power car in sufficient quantity to run your schedule.

 

[cpotisch]

Is there a reason Amtrak rarely runs locomotives back-to-back? 'Cause that would obviously make it much easier for a train to change direction without wying.

 

[Trogdor]

I don't know the mechanics, but how hard would it to make the entire Amtrak fleet 100% push-pull compatible?

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Amtrak Forum mobile app

A lot. There are more than 1500 train cars in the Amtrak system. Assuming 25% are already push-pull compatible, that leaves around 1140 cars to retrofit. I don't know the exact costs but I can't imagine that being cheap.

Are you just making up assumptions and numbers regarding what cars are push-pull and which aren't?

 

[jis]

Is there a reason Amtrak rarely runs locomotives back-to-back? 'Cause that would obviously make it much easier for a train to change direction without wying.

On the NEC that Northeastern is discussing, the electric engines are double ended, so back to back or not is not an issue.

Also, since most corridor diesel trains run with a single engine, there is no possibility of running back to back. There are only a few LD trains that run with two engines, and they typically have 12 to 24 hours to turn and be serviced. They go to a service facility with a Wye or a balloon loop anyway.

In the past Metroliners were turned both in Washington and New York, in platform, by merely unhooking the engine (an AEM-7) at one and and hooking on another engine (another AEM-7) at the other end, and of course flipping the seats inside the cars. I don;t think this has been done since the Metroliners were discontinued.

I don't know the mechanics, but how hard would it to make the entire Amtrak fleet 100% push-pull compatible?

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Amtrak Forum mobile app

A lot. There are more than 1500 train cars in the Amtrak system. Assuming 25% are already push-pull compatible, that leaves around 1140 cars to retrofit. I don't know the exact costs but I can't imagine that being cheap.

Are you just making up assumptions and numbers regarding what cars are push-pull and which aren't?

It is quite obvious that he is just winging it

If one wished one can get a somewhat better estimate using information from the OTOL Amtrak Roster web page.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Is there a reason Amtrak rarely runs locomotives back-to-back? 'Cause that obviously makes it much easier to change directions.

Most of the trains with two locomotives are long distance routes where quick turn-around times are not essential. In addition, the seats would have to be turned around so the benefits would be limited.

 

[cpotisch]

I don't know the mechanics, but how hard would it to make the entire Amtrak fleet 100% push-pull compatible?

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Amtrak Forum mobile app

A lot. There are more than 1500 train cars in the Amtrak system. Assuming 25% are already push-pull compatible, that leaves around 1140 cars to retrofit. I don't know the exact costs but I can't imagine that being cheap.

Are you just making up assumptions and numbers regarding what cars are push-pull and which aren't?

There are objectively more than 1500 cars on the roster. The vast majority of trains don't run push-pull. I was just giving a rough, approximate number as to the percentage.

EDIT: I was just looking at the roster, and it seems that around 1/3 of cars are already push-pull.

 

[PVD]

I would have guessed a bit higher, since it's virtually all AM1 are, Talgo sets run with a cab, and a pretty good number of SL-1 (in the 70 range) as well as California cars. I don't know the Horizons off the top of my head....

 

[Trogdor]

I would have guessed a bit higher, since it's virtually all AM1 are, Talgo sets run with a cab, and a pretty good number of SL-1 (in the 70 range) as well as California cars. I don't know the Horizons off the top of my head....

Horizons are definitely push-pull.

 

[mycalpal]

As far as transferring from the Lake Shore Limited at Albany to take the Empire into NY Grand Central, one issue that may be problem is the small seating capacity of the Albany-Rensselaer Station. I ride the Lake Shore several times a year and when I get off at Albany, most of the NYP passengers do not get off the train, even when they split off the BOS section. In the summer the LSL typically has 4 NYP coaches and most of the people are headed to the city, I see this especially when I ride in the BOS sleeper and have to walk the length of the train to get to the diner. Hopefully, the passengers transferring won't have a long wait.

 

[PVD]

Thanks. I thought so but was not sure As many times as I have connected in Chicago, it has never been to a Horizon consist.

 

[lordsigma]

I imagine checked bags will have to go to boston and then come back down the overnight regional to NYP, if GCT doesn't have the facilities...but that would be confusing if baggage is delivered other than to the ticketed terminus

That doesn't seem particularly efficient, since passengers to NYC would have to wait several hours for their bags. Probably a lot easier to just stick a baggage car on the connecting Empire Service.

That would involve setting up a baggage office at Grand Central though. I don't think there is any plan to set up any significant establishment at GCT for operating the diverted trains there, let alone a baggage office.

It does appear they are going to have a manned presence at GCT with some Amtrak agents in the ticket booths as well as some quik-trak kiosks - with ALL of the empire trains going to grand central this time it definitely warrant having a staff presence there. Probably just send a few employees over that normally work at Penn. Will be interesting to see what they do.

 

[PVD]

NYSDOT kicks in a good buck for Empire Service. Would not be the least bit surprised if some level of presence for ticketing and boarding assistance, as well as providing information to passengers on transfers to NYP were part of the agreements. We will know soon enough.

 

[jis]

NYSDOT kicks in a good buck for Empire Service. Would not be the least bit surprised if some level of presence for ticketing and boarding assistance, as well as providing information to passengers on transfers to NYP were part of the agreements. We will know soon enough.

Yup. I would be exceedingly pleasantly surprised if that includes a checked baggage facility though.

 

[west point]

All V-2s that have been observed by us have the pass thru for MU control of locos. Now that brings up -

Pure speculation. Could one of the reasons that 3 diners were skipped was CAF did not install those Mu cables ? If they were skipped that might require a major refit ? .

 

[cpotisch]

All V-2s that have been observed by us have the pass thru for MU control of locos. Now that brings up -

Pure speculation. Could one of the reasons that 3 diners were skipped was CAF did not install those Mu cables ? If they were skipped that might require a major refit ? .

I feel like since there are so many reasons why certain cars could be skipped, it is highly unlikely that that in particular would have been the reason. I think a more likely reason would be that there were some defects in the car bodies or something.