Corridor diners?

[Anderson]

What train is 98/99?

 

[jis]

I was actually talking about what the intended service options are and not what stunts the railfans could pull to work around them

 

[Trogdor]

i actually don't belive there should be a diner on the NER, except on the 66/67 and 98/99 where it would be fine.

Train 98 already has a diner. Not sure why some random regional to Virginia (train 99) should have one.

Nor do I see why 66/67 should have a dining car, considering that it would never be open (who's going to want to eat dinner at 2 in the morning?).

 

[Paulus]

Somewhat related: Does anyone know what Amtrak's table turnover rate is?

 

[NY Penn]

IMHO what's needed on the longer day trains is an expanded cafe car, not a diner.

Having a diner would drastically increase OBS costs while bringing little to no income. An enhanced cafe car, on the other hand, would still be cheap while providing actually appealing meals. IIRC Amtrak is planning to try this soon, or already did on the Acela.

 

[Anderson]

In a sense, I think asking for a diner borders on a slang of sorts for upgrading food service to potentially have a cook on hand or something like that (i.e. a substantially upgraded cafe), and diners are the only real point of reference we have for something more.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

i actually don't belive there should be a diner on the NER, except on the 66/67 and 98/99 where it would be fine.

Train 98 already has a diner. Not sure why some random regional to Virginia (train 99) should have one.

Nor do I see why 66/67 should have a dining car, considering that it would never be open (who's going to want to eat dinner at 2 in the morning?).

*Raises hand*

But I know I am a minority.

Wouldnt the Viewliner v ersion of CCC essentially be what the Cardinal runs right now? Half cafe half 'diner'?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What train is 98/99?

Messed up, see below.

i actually don't belive there should be a diner on the NER, except on the 66/67 and 98/99 where it would be fine.

Train 98 already has a diner. Not sure why some random regional to Virginia (train 99) should have one.

Nor do I see why 66/67 should have a dining car, considering that it would never be open (who's going to want to eat dinner at 2 in the morning?).

Yeah, I guess 66/67 dosen't need one. Nor does 99. I meant to say 95/94 plus 171/176. Those run a long time during the day.

 

[jis]

I doubt that any train running under the auspices of Amtrak Northeast will get a Diner or even a cook attached to the cafe car. The only thing that might happen is as the trains get longer they could get a second cafe car at some point, and the Cafe menu could get enhanced.

Realistically, I don't think adding Diners will enhance revenues sufficiently to cover any costs significantly. And in the current climate, that will trump everything else. NE Region on the verge of profitability is not going to take actions that will put them firmly back in red.

I say verge of profitability because Amtrak really needs to account for all the maintenance costs that are carefully hidden away under Capital and are currently not considered in computing profitability. Amtrak has some idea of what the effect will be of being more transparent, and they know that they cannot load up additional costs on NE Region without causing huge problems down the road.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I doubt that any train running under the auspices of Amtrak Northeast will get a Diner or even a cook attached to the cafe car. The only thin that might happen is as the trains get longer they could get a second cafe car at some point, and the Cafe menu could get enhanced.

Realistically, I don;t think adding Diners will enhance revenues sufficiently to cover any costs significantly. And in the current climate, that will trump everything else. NE Region on the verge of profitability is not going to take actions that will put them firmly back in red.

Agreed.

If you want good meals on the NEC, pick up a 'to go' order and bring it aboard. Most stations have a decent eatery or two (read better than the AmCafe) located close by. Unless I'm traveling AE/FC, that is what I do.

 

[VentureForth]

I just can't see how adding a diner to corridor Trains could even begin to be economically viable. However, the current cafe doesn't seen to be cutting it.

The 66/67 and the Palmetto could both use a glorified snack car. CCC is a great idea for these routes, but you can't pull a Superliner into NYP.

I think both these Trains should get a Viewliner diner configured as a CCC.

You mean something like The Card has? :help:

No. But only because NO Amtrak train, whether long distance, corridor, or regional has an acceptable diner.

However, in the context of this thread, yes. Of course, as mentioned, you can't pull any existing CCC into NYP because of the height limitations.

The Cardnial should have a full service diner because of the fact that there is a sleeper car (only one, but that's another discussion).

What the long distance non-sleeper trains need is something like a CCC or a snack car that is open for the entire duration of the route. These would be the Palmetto and the 66/67 Regional. But the key is to have enough stock to serve. If the Palmetto is running out of food half way through the trip, the attendant is still getting paid for the whole trip. This is ludicrous and bad operations.

As for the shorter distance corridor trains, a diner is a HUGE waste of money. Like the Piedmont and Keystone. The Piedmont has a vending machine. Should be ample for a snack on a 3 hour journey whether you are coming off another train or not. But I wouldn't be against them putting in a cafe' car. But these short routes have no business running full diners when equipment and operating costs are so freakin' high.

I still highly advocate trolley service. Get some good sandwiches and cold beverages at your seat.

If I had the time and resources, I'd try to start a subcontracted business to do just that on the Silvers. But you see, Amtrak would never talk to me unless I hired their employees to do it, which I could never make a dime from.

 

[jphjaxfl]

As has been mentioned, a full dining car would increase overhead dramatically on the corridor trains. This is the same reasons airlines have stopped serving food on domestic flights. Most airports now have "take out" food that is much better than airlines ever served. The stations could along the corridor can do the same. Non corridor trains like the Palmetto could offer dinners to go by contracting with restaurants along the line. Prior to Amtrak, many trains offered box meals at meal times when dining Cars had been removed. One of the crew members would come through about an hour before and take orders. The meals would be delivered to the train at the appropriate stop. I remember some of the best fried chicken in some of those boxed meals.

 

[rrdude]

Don't think a "Full Diner" would pass the financial test, not even close, on any corridor train, or even the "hybrids" Palmetto, Adirondack, ML, Vermonter, etc., etc.

Would "could" work on these hybrids is some type of Snack-Diner-Lounge. While not a full diner, something more than Amcafe junk. Amtrak just doesn't have anything like this now, in terms of interior configuration. For those just going a few miles or a few hours, the "snack:" option may be all they need. But for those traveling the full length of the route, the "Diner" option. (Food similar to Acela FC or Via Rail BC, perhaps, or the Card) would be a welcome relief.

 

[CHamilton]

Non corridor trains like the Palmetto could offer dinners to go by contracting with restaurants along the line.

On my recent trip on the EB, the guy in the cafe car announced that he had arranged to get 30 boxed dinners -- complete chicken dinners for $10 with sides and huckleberry cobbler -- from a restaurant in Havre. He took reservations, then announced when they were ready. Don't know how many he sold, but I would certainly have been tempted were I not in a sleeper. Has anyone else run into this?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Non corridor trains like the Palmetto could offer dinners to go by contracting with restaurants along the line.

On my recent trip on the EB, the guy in the cafe car announced that he had arranged to get 30 boxed dinners -- complete chicken dinners for $10 with sides and huckleberry cobbler -- from a restaurant in Havre. He took reservations, then announced when they were ready. Don't know how many he sold, but I would certainly have been tempted were I not in a sleeper. Has anyone else run into this?

The Big Sky Chicken Picnic Dinner is a regular on the Empire Builder and usually sells out pretty fast.

 

[MARC Rider]

As I recall, the "corridor diner" on the Merchants Limited that I patronized in 1975 was not like the diner service on the current long distance trains. For one thing, the service was breathtakingly fast and efficient. As I said, I would usually haed for the diner when we were approaching Trenton, and be done before we rolled into Newark. I'm not sure how many waiters they had on duty, but the reall efficieny was the system, which involved a very simple menu (3 choices, complete meals), and you, the customer, wrote up your order. The waiter then came by, picked it up, and very soon thereafter, you were served. No need for long conversations and explanations that slow service. Most people paid in cash, so there was less delay due to staff fiddling around with credit cards, and even if they did, they didn't have wireless connections back in those technologically primitive times, so they weren't futzing around checking online whether the credit card was valid.

In a way the concept was a hybrid between fast food and fine dining, except that you got made-to-order meals served on china, with silver and white tablecloth.

I'm not sure whther it could be replicated under today's foodservice practices, but at the very least, some of the concepts might help improve throughput on current Amtak diners, allow them to serve more customers, and thus increase their cash intake.

 

[philabos]

The PRR assigned full diners to many of their NY-Wash trains in the 60's. I can remember having Pennsy's corned beef hash and poached eggs south of Newark for breakfast - as MARC rider mentioned you would write your order on a check which the waiter would pick up. Food would soon appear freshly cooked.

The maire d would total up your check as the waiter poured you a second cup of coffee and collect the cash from the table. All very fast and quite good. The diner was usually full at breakfast and turned over quite quickly. The diner would divide the coaches from one or two parlor cars, the latter of which would have attendants to

provide even more coffee at your seat.

Nice memories, but given today's costs those days are gone forever.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Memory Lane: hboy:

All this talk about riding the Pennsy between WAS & NYP reminded me of a specific memory from my childhood. One time when taking the Metroliner with my Dad - I can't remember if it was pre-Amtrak or not (We rode it before and after the change) we went to the cafe car, like we usually did, and got hot beverages. I know my Dad got coffee and though I can't remember exactly what I had, it would have been either hot chocolate or hot tea. When we got our drinks, which were always served in styrofoam in those days, we found this amazing new (at least to us) innovation. The plastic, preformed lids had this new shape. It allowed one to push in a small section of the lid so you could enjoy your beverage without having to take the top off - and the worry of spilling it on the moving, shaking train! :excl: You laugh. Can't say as I blame you. :lol: It is certainly one of those things we take for granted today, but made a big impression on me at the time.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Memory Lane: hboy:

All this talk about riding the Pennsy between WAS & NYP reminded me of a specific memory from my childhood. One time when taking the Metroliner with my Dad - I can't remember if it was pre-Amtrak or not (We rode it before and after the change) we went to the cafe car, like we usually did, and got hot beverages. I know my Dad got coffee and though I can't remember exactly what I had, it would have been either hot chocolate or hot tea. When we got our drinks, which were always served in styrofoam in those days, we found this amazing new (at least to us) innovation. The plastic, preformed lids had this new shape. It allowed one to push in a small section of the lid so you could enjoy your beverage without having to take the top off - and the worry of spilling it on the moving, shaking train! :excl: You laugh. Can't say as I blame you. :lol: It is certainly one of those things we take for granted today, but made a big impression on me at the time.

You are not alone, I remember that invention also, though I was not on a train.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Memory Lane: hboy:

All this talk about riding the Pennsy between WAS & NYP reminded me of a specific memory from my childhood. One time when taking the Metroliner with my Dad - I can't remember if it was pre-Amtrak or not (We rode it before and after the change) we went to the cafe car, like we usually did, and got hot beverages. I know my Dad got coffee and though I can't remember exactly what I had, it would have been either hot chocolate or hot tea. When we got our drinks, which were always served in styrofoam in those days, we found this amazing new (at least to us) innovation. The plastic, preformed lids had this new shape. It allowed one to push in a small section of the lid so you could enjoy your beverage without having to take the top off - and the worry of spilling it on the moving, shaking train! :excl: You laugh. Can't say as I blame you. :lol: It is certainly one of those things we take for granted today, but made a big impression on me at the time.

You are not alone, I remember that invention also, though I was not on a train.

Bill, I guess we are showing our age.