Conductor Problems

[tricia]

I hadn't realized our posts are subject to censorship. Good to know :-|

Definitely. Part of mine was removed around the same time the OP's was edited.

I usually don't mind, but sometimes it makes things confusing, like when (for example) someone responds to GML but GML's post is gone. Or sometimes it makes my reply look stupid since I'm replying to text that isn't even there anymore and the entire meaning changes (such as this time).

I like when the mods put in a little note that says "Edited by mod for clarity" or "Edited by mod to fix train dates". It doesn't show up as "edited" when the mods do it, which adds to the confusion, so it's nice when they pop a note in, like a proofreader's mark/comment.

For sure mods should note when they've made edits. There will inevitably be differences of opinion about whether edits should have been made, but as long as this is a forum on which posts are attributed to the individual who posts them, the simple fact that a post has been changed by mods really needs to be noted. Thanks in advance. If that's not going to be the routine practice, I for one will be reluctant to post in the future.

A review of this shows that the original post, and a follow up post by the original poster had ONE word removed. That word was an attempt to bypass the bad word filter the software uses. Several other posts were then edited as they didn't make sense in light of the one word being removed.

Thanks for clarification. Still: Would moderators kindly mark when they make an edit? Every time.

I have no quarrel at all with your editing. My concern (as both a reader and a writer here) is that I want to know who's written what. I'm pretty sure that most people assume that, for example, what I'm posting here was entirely written by me. If/when mods make changes, that should be noted.

 

[andersone]

if we don't remember (expurgated) we will repeat (expurgated). I worked for a guy who spent almost seven years in a German POW camp in WWII, and he truly knew the meaning of the word. I have no problem with mods editing posts, as they have done with mine, and if it breaks the flow of a thread so be it,,, or as my sainted mother used to say,, its just the other "N" word,,,,,,

 

[SarahZ]

if we don't remember (expurgated) we will repeat (expurgated). I worked for a guy who spent almost seven years in a German POW camp in WWII, and he truly knew the meaning of the word. I have no problem with mods editing posts, as they have done with mine, and if it breaks the flow of a thread so be it,,, or as my sainted mother used to say,, its just the other "N" word,,,,,,

I agree it shouldn't be used as an insult. I was just surprised it was part of the filter, that's all.

 

[Aaron]

Thanks for clarification. Still: Would moderators kindly mark when they make an edit? Every time.

I have no quarrel at all with your editing. My concern (as both a reader and a writer here) is that I want to know who's written what. I'm pretty sure that most people assume that, for example, what I'm posting here was entirely written by me. If/when mods make changes, that should be noted.

I couldn't agree more with this. I've only had two posts moderated here. Once, a post was removed because I was making fun of the type of rhetoric certain political types use. I was bothered that the post was removed because I wasn't trying to pick on a side so much as a way of speaking, which could be employed by either side. Perhaps it didn't seem that way; I don't know. All I know is it got removed. Whatever.

The other time, I became annoyed with another poster's stupid (to me) questions and posted a response that included a slightly uncharitable bit of name calling. The mods left the post, but changed the form of address to something a lot more complimentary. I was (and still am) a lot more angry about that than I was about my other post being removed. I probably should never have written what I wrote. It was unkind. But, there was no doubt that I wrote it. Once a mod stepped in and chose to rewrite what I said, it was no longer my words in my voice. The substitute wasn't even a word choice that I ever would have used. I would have been much less upset if someone had just said "Nope. No name calling allowed here. Baleeted." and yanked the post. Putting words in my mouth (or anyones's) is just unacceptable, IMHO.

 

[SubwayNut]

I was recently on a Long Island Rail Road Multilevel looking for a seat that was extremely crowded and found a pair that a couple were using the opposite set of seats for their suitcase that was too big to fit in the overhead rack. I said I would like to sit down, suitcases don't deserve seats. They promptly moved there suitcase and blocked the aisle for the rest of the trip, the conductor saying nothing and I'm joined by a seat mate at the next stop.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Indeed

 

[ScottRu]

As someone who has done a fair amount of publishing (and therefore worked with lots of editors), it seems to me borderline illegal to modify someone's words without in any way making it clear that you have done so.

If someone is "watching over" this board, that is fine... but make it clear on what basis you are deleting or modifying what has been written.

 

[Ryan]

Don't be ridiculous, it isn't illegal. It's Alan's playground, he can do whatever he likes.

That said, annotating posts edited by moderators is probably a very good idea.

 

[railiner]

Well, I agree that the seats need to be available, and I can almost garuntee that if the OP calls in the conductor will be talked to. I encoruage the OP to call in, as there is a way to ask and being condescending over the PA is not the way to handle the situation.

I may fall into the catigory of a conductor who doesnt act on seat and baggae issues, and the reason is amtrak management. As a conductor (well really any position of authority now days that requires being the bad guy, police, security, etc) I am constantly scrutinized by the public, and there ia just no possible way to please everybody. No matter how you ask, or what the reason ia some bystander will have somthing nefitive to say about it. I have been called in the offixe for announcing that we were involves in a tresspasser incident as sombody felt that the victims rights were being oppressed as they "wernt a tresspasser until convicted in court", and for putting off a paasenfer in the middle od nowhere (modesto station) because she was amoking on board the train next to sombosy with oxygen, and thw lady on oxygen files thw complaint because we ahiuld have given her a warning. Amtrak managment does NOT support thw crews when we enforce the rules they set fourth. So if I just turn a blind eye, make no issue about it, and do nothing, therebis no complaints and if by the off chance there is...i never saw it.

Its unfortunate but thats the way scociety works, and if that means that the passenger has to walk a car or two for a seat so be it. If It truly is a full train, I have no problem asking people nicely to move their belongings but there had better be no other open seats if I ask, as I need to justify it to management when the offendes peraon who had to accomidate somebody else calls in.

The proverbial, "being between a rock, and a hard place"....you have my sympathies....I have been in your position. I too have learned (the utltimate hard way), to 'not get involved', and turn a 'blind eye' to situations where you lose either way.

Yes it's sad, but in this litigious society, corporation and individual have to focus more on "watching their back", then performing their job....

 

[Trainmans daughter]

On one of my Cap Corridor trips last spring, one of these flyers was on each aisle seat. I loved it!

 

[AlanB]

Just to clear up a few points here:

First, moderators cannot edit a post without leaving the same "edit tag line" that members leave when they try to edit their own posts. However, it is at their discretion as to whether to enter some text into the box. Administrators can edit a post without leaving that tag; they have the option to opt out of leaving the tag.

Second, when we do edit we try hard to not change the meaning of the original sentence. That could see a questionable word being changed to something less offensive, but still leaving the overall meaning the same. Most edits however simply see entire sentences and/or paragraphs being deleted.

Third, we generally do not post the reason for editing unless it was to fix quotes or other formatting issues or copyright issues. We do this to prevent embarrassment. I don't think it appropriate to "air the dirty laundry" as it were. The staff is supposed to let the member know by PM. That said, there are a few members who always push back at the staff member (sometimes even before a decision is made on what to do with the offending post) so the staff has simply given up informing them. Guests have no recourse.

Fourth, as mentioned in #3, many posts are initially hidden until more than one staff member has commented regarding what action to take. And some are left for the most senior staff members. So a post disappearing from view is not necessarily gone, it could just be under review and it could return intact or with some editing done.

Finally, if a post of yours has been edited, assuming that your edit time hasn't expired a member is welcome to re-edit the post to something that doesn't restore the original text that was redacted, but is more in tune with what the member might say. Of course that change is still subject to review by the staff. If the edit window has expired, the member can request that a staff member make the change for them via PM. Please include the complete revised section of text within the PM. Or alternatively, you can also request that the entire post simply be deleted. Please know that such a request will be evaluated by the senior staff with regard to what removal does to the rest of the topic. If there are lots of quotes on your post, the request will probably not be honored as it will be disruptive to the topic.

 

[Bob Dylan]

image.jpg

On one of my Cap Corridor trips last spring, one of these flyers was on each aisle seat. I loved it!

Excellent idea for ALL Trains!!!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Alan, I contend that if a mod feels sufficient drive to modify a post, he should first be able to explain why he did this. I am SICK beyond belief about my posts simply disappearing without even a note saying they deleted it, let alone why.

I don't feel a need to fly in the face of this forums so called rules. I do, however, find direct guidelines as to what I do wrong helpful in modulating my posts to better fit in to your communities ideals.

 

[Silver Star rider]

Just to clear up a few points here:

First, moderators cannot edit a post without leaving the same "edit tag line" that members leave when they try to edit their own posts. However, it is at their discretion as to whether to enter some text into the box. Administrators can edit a post without leaving that tag; they have the option to opt out of leaving the tag.

Second, when we do edit we try hard to not change the meaning of the original sentence. That could see a questionable word being changed to something less offensive, but still leaving the overall meaning the same. Most edits however simply see entire sentences and/or paragraphs being deleted.

Third, we generally do not post the reason for editing unless it was to fix quotes or other formatting issues or copyright issues. We do this to prevent embarrassment. I don't think it appropriate to "air the dirty laundry" as it were. The staff is supposed to let the member know by PM. That said, there are a few members who always push back at the staff member (sometimes even before a decision is made on what to do with the offending post) so the staff has simply given up informing them. Guests have no recourse.

Fourth, as mentioned in #3, many posts are initially hidden until more than one staff member has commented regarding what action to take. And some are left for the most senior staff members. So a post disappearing from view is not necessarily gone, it could just be under review and it could return intact or with some editing done.

Finally, if a post of yours has been edited, assuming that your edit time hasn't expired a member is welcome to re-edit the post to something that doesn't restore the original text that was redacted, but is more in tune with what the member might say. Of course that change is still subject to review by the staff. If the edit window has expired, the member can request that a staff member make the change for them via PM. Please include the complete revised section of text within the PM. Or alternatively, you can also request that the entire post simply be deleted. Please know that such a request will be evaluated by the senior staff with regard to what removal does to the rest of the topic. If there are lots of quotes on your post, the request will probably not be honored as it will be disruptive to the topic.

Thanks for posting this. As a person who is also a moderator elsewhere on the Internet, when I feel I need to take action, more often then not, if the person is notified why I am taking action, I will get a not so friendly response back.

Bruce-SSR

 

[haolerider]

Alan, I contend that if a mod feels sufficient drive to modify a post, he should first be able to explain why he did this. I am SICK beyond belief about my posts simply disappearing without even a note saying they deleted it, let alone why.

I don't feel a need to fly in the face of this forums so called rules. I do, however, find direct guidelines as to what I do wrong helpful in modulating my posts to better fit in to your communities ideals.

In spite of the posting of rules, it would seem that GML has had posts disappear and he has not been notified. In fact, on one subject quite some time ago, both he and I had posts disappear and I was never notified as to why! Rules are rules and if one of the staff feels a need to modify or eliminate a post, it is only common courtesy to notify the originator as to why. We are all adults...well almost all....and we can take constructive criticism, but not indiscriminate modifications or elimination of posts.

 

[ScottRu]

Ryan... "Don't be ridiculous"? "It's Alan's playground and he can do whatever he wants." ??

You can't be serious.

It is certainly Alan's prerogative to amend or modify or delete posts that he feels are inappropriate or hurtful. Alan is to be commended for the hours he pours in to making this forum available to us. But it is not his "playground" to do as he pleases. And I still maintain that if anyone modifies what I, or you, or anyone posts, there should be a note mentioning that a modification has occurred, what the modification is, and why it occurred. I would have no interest in participating in a forum where anyone's posts can be randomly and furtively changed without notice.

 

[fillyjonk]

I also moderate a discussion board elsewhere on the Internet and I concur with the poster who said, "When I tell the person about their post being edited (and I would add, even when they have clearly been told the rules of the board before and continue to violate them), I almost never get a friendly response back."

It's kinda like being the cowcatcher on the front of the old steam engines....except you catch something other than cows.

 

[lrdc9_metroplitan_sub]

Not to veer to far back towards the original topic but .... I had some thoughts on this

I've seen the sprawled out sleepers. The college kids and other passengers that put all their belongings in a seat like it is their territory. When asked to be a bit more respectful many passengers give the conductor attitude. When announcements do cover the topic - which is rare - majority ignore what is said.

I only see a problem with the sprawling out if someone makes a scene when they have to consolidate to a single seat. I travel a lot from college in Indiana back home to DC and if the seat next to me is open whether on the Amtrak or the Greyhound you better believe I'm going to take advantage of the bonus space to sleep easier. But I understand that if someone needs the seat that's just the way it is and I get back into my own space.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

At least I am not the only one who feels this way.

 

[Silver Star rider]

The polite thing to do is if you using more then one seat between stations is when passengers are boarding, you don't wait to be asked to vacate the seat next to you, you move your items off of it as people approach looking for seats.

Bruce-SSR

 

[railiner]

The polite thing to do is if you using more then one seat between stations is when passengers are boarding, you don't wait to be asked to vacate the seat next to you, you move your items off of it as people approach looking for seats.

Bruce-SSR

Therein lies the problem....most of the single's will wait and hope for someone else to "do the polite thing", before they will, begrudgingly....

 

[jis]

Ah the luxury of finding a seat, any seat. If one boards at Metropark, the best thing to do is to be ready to head for a seat in the Cafe, and then look for a real seat in Philly or New York, depending on which direction one is traveling on the NEC.

The other thing that often works is getting on the last car, specially on not fully loaded trains. So I usually get on the last car and then if nothing is found on a walk to the Cafe, settle down in the Cafe.

 

[Ryan]

Ryan... "Don't be ridiculous"? "It's Alan's playground and he can do whatever he wants." ??

You can't be serious.

It is certainly Alan's prerogative to amend or modify or delete posts that he feels are inappropriate or hurtful. Alan is to be commended for the hours he pours in to making this forum available to us. But it is not his "playground" to do as he pleases.

I'm perfectly serious. He's the forum administrator. He can do whatever he wants. There is no law that says posts you author on an internet forum are inviolate and cannot be modified without your notification or consent.

That said, nobody is forced to post here, and he can only exert that control over people to choose to post here. Alienate enough people, and that power dissolves, as the community depends on people voluntarily coming here to contribute content. Given the health of the community, I'm going to hazard a guess that Alan's on pretty solid ground. If you find that distasteful, I suppose we'll just have to learn to live without the valuable content that you bring to the table.

And I still maintain that if anyone modifies what I, or you, or anyone posts, there should be a note mentioning that a modification has occurred, what the modification is, and why it occurred.

I'm sympathetic to that to a point. Sometimes, it's completely impractical, as when an entire line of discussion is pruned from a thread. Sometimes it's also not particularly necessary - if a post of mine gets removed, it isn't rocket surgery to figure out why. Either I was responding to something that the staff deemed unfit for display/discussion, and my response makes no sense after the offending post has been removed. Or, I made the offensive post myself, and it comes as little surprise when it gets redacted in part or in full. It's nice when it happens, but not strictly required.

I would have no interest in participating in a forum where anyone's posts can be randomly and furtively changed without notice.

That's an attribute shared by nearly every web forum on the internet. Sounds like you're more suited to email discussion groups where your messages, once sent, go directly to everyone subscribed without any intermediaries (although group administrators can and do scrub the group archives of objectionable content).

 

[John Bobinyec]

"Rocket Surgery" and its twin, "Brain Science".

jb

 

[Silver Star rider]

Ryan... "Don't be ridiculous"? "It's Alan's playground and he can do whatever he wants." ??

You can't be serious.

It is certainly Alan's prerogative to amend or modify or delete posts that he feels are inappropriate or hurtful. Alan is to be commended for the hours he pours in to making this forum available to us. But it is not his "playground" to do as he pleases.

I'm perfectly serious. He's the forum administrator. He can do whatever he wants. There is no law that says posts you author on an internet forum are inviolate and cannot be modified without your notification or consent.

That said, nobody is forced to post here, and he can only exert that control over people to choose to post here. Alienate enough people, and that power dissolves, as the community depends on people voluntarily coming here to contribute content. Given the health of the community, I'm going to hazard a guess that Alan's on pretty solid ground. If you find that distasteful, I suppose we'll just have to learn to live without the valuable content that you bring to the table.

And I still maintain that if anyone modifies what I, or you, or anyone posts, there should be a note mentioning that a modification has occurred, what the modification is, and why it occurred.

I'm sympathetic to that to a point. Sometimes, it's completely impractical, as when an entire line of discussion is pruned from a thread. Sometimes it's also not particularly necessary - if a post of mine gets removed, it isn't rocket surgery to figure out why. Either I was responding to something that the staff deemed unfit for display/discussion, and my response makes no sense after the offending post has been removed. Or, I made the offensive post myself, and it comes as little surprise when it gets redacted in part or in full. It's nice when it happens, but not strictly required.

I would have no interest in participating in a forum where anyone's posts can be randomly and furtively changed without notice.

That's an attribute shared by nearly every web forum on the internet. Sounds like you're more suited to email discussion groups where your messages, once sent, go directly to everyone subscribed without any intermediaries (although group administrators can and do scrub the group archives of objectionable content).

Not true, Yahoogroups, members can be moderated, meaning before their post goes out to the group, they need to be approved.

Bruce-SSR