Child Tickets 12yo and Under Effective 3/24/14

[Blackwolf]

Seems to be a case where, those wishing a discount off of the full-fare Adult price for passengers between 13 and 15 years of age, should consider one of the following:

• American Automobile Association (AAA)
• National Association of Railroad Passengers (NARP)
• Student Advantage

 

[Eris]

Well, here is how it affects me, personally:

- I can book a roomette, if I choose, with me + my two children. The maximum allowable party composition for a roomette is 1 adult + 2 children (or 3 children, or 4 children), so this will no longer be an option once my oldest turns 13. I realize that many think any three in a roomette is insanity, but it works for us- my kids are thin and especially the oldest is not-tall- they fit together on a single seat and sleep feet-to-head remarkably well in the lower bunk, and I can envision that continuing being doable right through the oldest being 15 (especially on the Coast Starlight with its extra lounge car to give us places to be outside our compartment without adversely impacting available space for other riders).

- My travel decisions are often made by coast comparisons. An airplane ticket between Seattle and Los Angeles typically costs *the same* as a coach ticket on the CS, and sometimes less. But for me + two kids, taking the train (coach) means buying (the cost equivalent of) two kids, vs three on Alaska Airlines- 2/3 the price to take the train means I can completely justify taking the train (which we so vastly prefer) instead of flying, even when my extended family thinks we're insane not to fly. Amazingly, riding coach over night between Seattle and Los Angeles has created two more railfans (they prefer going in the sleeper, but even a miserable night in coach is still awesome to them).

Anyway, it's a bummer for me, though I've got some time to adjust to the idea.

 

[SubwayNut]

I rode Amtrak quite a bit in high school alone before those restrictive unaccompanied minor rules. I even got a Student Advantage Card when I was 15 and still eligible for child fares when traveling with an adult because I was traveling so much alone (in those days you could travel alone unrestricted at 15). I got my Student Advantage card and signed up for AGR at the same time when Student Advantage was offering a 1,000 point sign up bonus and also got a 500 point web enrollment bonus, and another 500 point eStatment bonus. I just looked through my history to check this.

Enrolling in Student Advantage and AGR at the same time is still away to earn 1,000 bonus points, I don't think you get the town other bonuses.

 

[HAL]

I wonder if this effects any current state contracts, like the states written directly in that half fares need to be provided for children under 15. I also wonder how precise Amtrak's tickets are with their date of issues (will the conductor know if the ticket was purchased before or after the new changeover?)

It's still better than the Commuter Railroads in NYC (LIRR, NJT, Metro-North) where its only up to 11 and has been as long as I can remember.

I don't think there will be any visible effect for the Conductors as far as handling these tickets, it's the ticket agents that will have to keep their eyes on this. The Conductor is just going to take the ticket, to a large extent they probably don't even pay attention to how much was paid for the ticket.

Since e-ticketing the Conductor does not know the fare paid for a ticket. They do know if it was a senior fare or other discount fare, but they don't know the actual dollar amount of the fare the ticket was sold at. The Conductor is going to just take the ticket usually but if say for example someone who is obviously not a senior has a senior fare they might notice and require an upgrade. With children it won't be that easy but if a teenager has a child rate that is something they might notice with the new change. Under the old ages a 16 year with a child fare I think would likely not have been challenged.

 

[Eris]

if a teenager has a child rate that is something they might notice with the new change. Under the old ages a 16 year with a child fare I think would likely not have been challenged.
Well, similarly, the growth/developmental range for ages 10-15 is pretty huge, and none required to carry proof of age; I don't know how many 16-17 year olds were riding claimed as 15 year olds but you're right that there will be fewer with a 12-and-under range, while likely some 13-15 year olds will find themselves demoted to "if anyone asks say you're 12."

 

[Guest]

Well, similarly, the growth/developmental range for ages 10-15 is pretty huge, and none required to carry proof of age; I don't know how many 16-17 year olds were riding claimed as 15 year olds but you're right that there will be fewer with a 12-and-under range, while likely some 13-15 year olds will find themselves demoted to "if anyone asks say you're 12."

Most passengers purchase the fare they are eligible to purchase. Most Conductors are not looking for drama. If they do ask the childs age they likely will accept the response without further action.

 

[IggyBot]

"The airlines have been doing this for years, as I mentioned twice already, and they are not suffering one bit."

Did you honestly say that with a straight face? Because the airline industry has been "suffering" for a good number of years - actually that should be decades - a bit of history review will back me up on that.

As to the person who would cut long distance routes to save regionals. Obviously you aren't aware that the majority of riders on the long distance routes are not mega geek railfans. Most are in coach trying to get to a destination - in many cases these passengers are not on vacation or just taking a land cruise. Also as it has been stated many times in this forum and a recent good example would be Sunset Limited = once a route is shutdown it becomes almost impossible to get it back up and running.

The wind industry comment was unneeded - I'll refrain from politics - but that shows a lack of research on that comentors part. Guess no other industries are subsidized and they don't like an industry that has created many American jobs. Wind power has also become cheaper to produce than nuclear here in Illinois - which is a good thing!!

I do not like policies or cuts that will reduce ridership. But this policy is more in line with most other businesses. When I was 10 or 11 I rode solo on a long ago shutdown Illinois route - things were a bit different then.

 

[SarahZ]

"The airlines have been doing this for years, as I mentioned twice already, and they are not suffering one bit."

Did you honestly say that with a straight face? Because the airline industry has been "suffering" for a good number of years - actually that should be decades - a bit of history review will back me up on that.

I did. Yes, they are suffering, but I doubt it's solely because of child fares. I think it has more to do with the TSA and bag fees, not to mention overbookings that bump people and cramming more and more seats onto planes, which reduces the pitch. That's the point I was getting at - removing child fares for 13-15 year olds probably won't end Amtrak, but, again, we won't know for sure until the ridership numbers are in.

 

[supergrandmother]

The primary reason I wanted to take my grandson on a long distance trip this summer was because he will be 16 in October. I made our reservations yesterday. However, it is a moot point for me now since I used AGR points to book us a two-zone roomette for our trip. It just looks like I have less time to take my granddaughter on a long distance trip since she is 10 now. On several occasions I have paid an adult fare for all my grandchildren to fly. Amtrak is just adjusting their fares to be in line with the rest of the travel industry......airlines, Disney, etc.

 

[Guest]

"The airlines have been doing this for years, as I mentioned twice already, and they are not suffering one bit."

Did you honestly say that with a straight face? Because the airline industry has been "suffering" for a good number of years - actually that should be decades - a bit of history review will back me up on that.

I did. Yes, they are suffering, but I doubt it's solely because of child fares. I think it has more to do with the TSA and bag fees, not to mention overbookings that bump people and cramming more and more seats onto planes, which reduces the pitch. That's the point I was getting at - removing child fares for 13-15 year olds probably won't end Amtrak, but, again, we won't know for sure until the ridership numbers are in.

For the 4th quarter of 2013, Delta Air Lines had a record quarterly profit.

This was not just a record quarterly profit for Delta, but more profit than any airline has ever made in any one quarter.

 

[VentureForth]

It would have been nice to have phased it in over a period of time rather than less than a week's notice.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using the Android Amtrak Forums mobile app

 

[neroden]

The increase in fares for teenagers is less of an issue than the insane unaccompanied minor rules.

Now, it makes sense for minors to get fake IDs in order to travel on Amtrak. Fake IDs: not just for alcohol any more!

The more ludicrously overprotective the rules for teenagers get, the more it gets to the point where their parents have an incentive to get them fake IDs, and Amtrak's gone well beyond that point.

Nobody in power is thinking about this unintended consequence.

It's worth noting that Amtrak's unaccompanied minor policy is, in a certain sense, unenforceable. What are they gonna do with a minor who has managed to get an adult ticket and gets caught? Throw them off the train early? Defeats the purpose of the policy, doesn't it?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

They have thrown them off the train in the middle of nowhere before.

 

[Ryan]

Yep.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/47264-amtrak-throws-15-year-old-from-the-train/

Moral of the story: Follow the damn rules.

 

[SubwayNut]

I was once getting on the Downeaster in Exeter and there were two teenagers trying to get on. The Downeaster only opens one door and passengers use a bridgeplate to board from the mini-high platform. As the rest of us board the conductor asks them how old they are. They both respond "16" He then asks them if they have ID to prove it (Amtrak and the Airlines only require ID from passengers 18 or older) and they both say "No!" He responds "I can't let you on the train then, you need ID if your traveling alone." After we've boarded I overhear him explaining to the other conductor that you have to profile the passengers and ask for ID.

 

[PRR 60]

I was once getting on the Downeaster in Exeter and there were two teenagers trying to get on. The Downeaster only opens one door and passengers use a bridgeplate to board from the mini-high platform. As the rest of us board the conductor asks them how old they are. They both respond "16" He then asks them if they have ID to prove it (Amtrak and the Airlines only require ID from passengers 18 or older) and they both say "No!" He responds "I can't let you on the train then, you need ID if your traveling alone." After we've boarded I overhear him explaining to the other conductor that you have to profile the passengers and ask for ID.

What ID would a 16yo have if they don't have a drivers license? A prior post talked about "follow the damn rules." That applies to both sides.

 

[Ryan]

Yep. Couldn't agree more.

Sent from my iPhone

 

[Eric S]

And, given the continuing decline in the percentage of teenagers (and 20- and 30-somethings) with drivers licenses, it should be expected that it will be increasingly common for 16- and 17-year-olds not to have IDs.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

In DE, you can go to the DMV to get an ID for your kid. Plus some schools have photo ID cards for the students.

 

[Blackwolf]

You don't need a drivers license in order to have ID. In California, for example, one can obtain a CA ID card (non-license) from the moment someone is born. It costs $27, simply requires a form to be filled out, proof of birth date and name (birth cert. or passport will suffice), a thumb print and a picture to be taken.

So, those without divers licenses can (and should) have an ID. I know that, in California, a lot of employers require at least a State ID, if not a full license, in order to be hired.

 

[BCL]

Raising fares for kids and taking flowers off tables will ensure service continues? WOW!

I said nothing about the flowers.

Charging adult fares for teenagers will increase revenue, yes. More revenue = more money for operating costs = service continues.

The airlines have been doing this for years, as I mentioned twice already, and they are not suffering one bit. Amtrak is still generous in that they consider someone a child until they are 13. The airlines kick you into the "adult" category as soon as you turn 3.

2. And if it's a lap infant, they'll require some sort of proof of age. Southwest requires check-in at the airport to get a "boarding document" and they will ask to see proof of age right there. Most bring a photocopy of a birth certificate, but a non-driver license state ID issued by a DMV or a passport will work.

 

[BCL]

You don't need a drivers license in order to have ID. In California, for example, one can obtain a CA ID card (non-license) from the moment someone is born. It costs $27, simply requires a form to be filled out, proof of birth date and name (birth cert. or passport will suffice), a thumb print and a picture to be taken.

So, those without divers licenses can (and should) have an ID. I know that, in California, a lot of employers require at least a State ID, if not a full license, in order to be hired.

An employer isn't allowed to require a specific form of ID in the US. They are required to have an employee fill out an I-9 and check their credentials to establish identify and proof of eligibility to work in the US. A driver license plus SSN card would satisfy the requirement. A passport alone alone also meets the requirements.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-9.pdf

I got a passport and passport card for our kid at age one. I never flew with our kid as a lap infant, but my wife did. We had no problems using the passport card, even if Southwest's information says to bring along a birth certificate to show proof of age. In many ways I like the passport card because it doesn't contain an address. When you flash a driver license, someone sees the address and may realize that you're on vacation.

 

[SarahZ]

In DE, you can go to the DMV to get an ID for your kid. Plus some schools have photo ID cards for the students.

Ditto. Ours (Michigan) is good for either four years or their 18th birthday, whichever comes first. Then they renew again at 21**, and then every four years after that.

**Our IDs/licenses are vertical if you are under 21 and horizontal if you are 21+. It makes it easy for bartenders and club owners to do a quick ID check without searching around for your birth date.

 

[HAL]

It's worth noting that Amtrak's unaccompanied minor policy is, in a certain sense, unenforceable. What are they gonna do with a minor who has managed to get an adult ticket and gets caught? Throw them off the train early? Defeats the purpose of the policy, doesn't it?

The current policy is not to throw them off the train. It is to treat them like an unaccomanied minor with paperwork and have a station agent meet the train at the sesination. I presume the station agent contacts the parents. It will also be entered in the PNR.

 

[Eric S]

Sure, it is possible to get a state ID card, rather than drivers license, and perhaps it is advisable as well. But, I'm guessing that many of the unlicensed younger folks also don't have state-issued IDs either. And, I'm not sure how many, but certainly some school IDs just have names and photos, but not ages/birthdates.