Child Tickets 12yo and Under Effective 3/24/14

[Ryan]

That is not what I've been seeing lately on Amtraks website.

I'll see your anecdotal observation and raise you a statistic. According to the US DOT, Amtrak's system-wide load factor in November (most recent

figures available) was just 48.7%. In fact, over the past decade, there's never been a month where the load factor has reached 70%. As I said, there

are certainly sold-out trains on certain routes at certain times of the year. But overall the numbers support the hypothesis that families that book away

from Amtrak will, on average, NOT be replaced by full-fare passengers.

Poorly patronized segments of routes pull down load factors something fierce.

 

[amamba]

Considering most trains are selling out, a seat going for full price is much better than half price. With the capacity strain this makes perfect business sense. However once more equipment is available or if ridership ever drops this could be resurected to fill empty seats. Makes perfect sense to me.

What trains are selling out? I've never been on one. My understanding is that the big sellers are the ones used for commuting in the NEC, and typically few children are going to be traveling on those.[/

quote]

Just a few weeks ago I was on. Sunday afternoon NEC regional. All the trains that day were sold out. My train had ppl standing in the aisles from NYP to Stamford and there were plenty of children on the train.

 

[fairviewroad]

That is not what I've been seeing lately on Amtraks website.

I'll see your anecdotal observation and raise you a statistic. According to the US DOT, Amtrak's system-wide load factor in November (most recent

figures available) was just 48.7%. In fact, over the past decade, there's never been a month where the load factor has reached 70%. As I said, there

are certainly sold-out trains on certain routes at certain times of the year. But overall the numbers support the hypothesis that families that book away

from Amtrak will, on average, NOT be replaced by full-fare passengers.

Poorly patronized segments of routes pull down load factors something fierce.

Likewise, a sold-out Acela brings up load factors. But the kids discount isn't valid on weekday Acelas, so to get a true measure you'd

have to adjust the load factor stats to take out weekday Acelas.

Look, I get it that statistics don't tell the whole story, but we have people throwing out things about how many Amtrak trains are sold out,

when the simple fact is that the vast majority are not. Arguably, a family of four contributes to revenue by bumping up the train into a

higher fare bucket for walk-up adult passengers. So there's really lots of different factors at play. I'll just go back to my basic point, which

is that there's no guarantee that this change in policy will result in more revenue.

 

[BCL]

Just a few weeks ago I was on. Sunday afternoon NEC regional. All the trains that day were sold out. My train had ppl standing in the aisles from NYP to Stamford and there were plenty of children on the train.

My only experience with a train on the NEC was when my family took the Keystone to a Philly suburb. I didn't see another kid on the entire trip, and that was on a Sunday. I doubt it's a high proportion of passengers. Certainly no likely to make much of a difference in terms of revenue.

Honestly - I think we would have been better off renting a car in Newark. We had a little mix up and our plans to take SEPTA and NJT back to NYP were messed up because the schedules didn't mesh. We also had to ask friends for rides. You ever waited at Exton for an hour?

 

[amamba]

Just a few weeks ago I was on. Sunday afternoon NEC regional. All the trains that day were sold out. My train had ppl standing in the aisles from NYP to Stamford and there were plenty of children on the train.

My only experience with a train on the NEC was when my family took the Keystone to a Philly suburb. I didn't see another kid on the entire trip, and that was on a Sunday. I doubt it's a high proportion of passengers. Certainly no likely to make much of a difference in terms of revenue.

Honestly - I think we would have been better off renting a car in Newark. We had a little mix up and our plans to take SEPTA and NJT back to NYP were messed up because the schedules didn't mesh. We also had to ask friends for rides. You ever waited at Exton for an hour?

i wouldn't say that a keystone is the same as a traditional regional that goes from BOS - WAS. I don't have stats bc I'm on the CZ and on my phone but I always see lots of kids on it on the weekends.

 

[Sane_Comments]

Eh, I can't really see that happening. Senior discounts are pretty firmly set at age 62 in most places. I think Amtrak is just trying to redefine "child" to match most other areas. I was honestly surprised to learn that someone age 14-15 was still considered a "child", since I don't really pay attention to that portion of the screen when I book. My brother was 5'10" and shaving when he was 15, hardly a child.

Personally, I like it when places give a "senior" discount to members of AARP. That pegs it as 50 years old.

I was pretty surprised years ago, that I was given a "kid" discount by Amtrak for my teen. As Sarah said so well, most places cut off their "kid" discount by the age of 12. Teens take up as much space as an adult, and eat as much food (if not more) as an adult.

I don't think many new families traveling on Amtrak for the first time, would be surprised or upset at all, having to pay full fare for their teen.

 

[fairviewroad]

Teens take up as much space as an adult, and eat as much food (if not more) as an adult.

The first part of your statement is true, though by that logic seniors shouldn't get a discount, either. I know the senior discount is smaller

but if we are going to play the "they take up space" card then seniors should kiss their discount g'bye.

As far as eating food, that part is irrelevant since a coach ticket does not include food. Upcharges for sleeping accommodations

are not discounted for children.

 

[Sane_Comments]

As far as eating food, that part is irrelevant since a coach ticket does not include food. Upcharges for sleeping accommodations

are not discounted for children.

I hate to break it to you, Amtrak is not the entire world. There are other places that give age-based discounts (surprise, surprise), like restaurants and movie theaters. So, it is indeed relevant to our discussion here in comparing what various industries do by age.

Possibly things have changed (its been a few years since my kid was that young), but I thought the railfare for a kid in a sleeper was discounted.

 

[fairviewroad]

As far as eating food, that part is irrelevant since a coach ticket does not include food. Upcharges for sleeping accommodations

are not discounted for children.

I hate to break it to you, Amtrak is not the entire world. There are other places that give age-based discounts (surprise, surprise), like restaurants and movie theaters. So, it is indeed relevant to our discussion here in comparing what various industries do by age.

Possibly things have changed (its been a few years since my kid was that young), but I thought the railfare for a kid in a sleeper was discounted.

The "railfare" is discounted but the sleeping accommodation charge is not. The "railfare" portion is effectively the coach fare and does not include

the extra charge for the room and meals. In other words, if an adult and a child book a roomette, the roomette charge is the same as when two adults

book the roomette.

So you could actually argue that a 7-year-old in a sleeper who orders their meal off the kids menu is actually subsidizing adults

in sleeping class who order the $25 steak since the room charge is the same for both persons.

You can read the entire kids policy on Amtrak's website.

 

[jebr]

As far as eating food, that part is irrelevant since a coach ticket does not include food. Upcharges for sleeping accommodations

are not discounted for children.

I hate to break it to you, Amtrak is not the entire world. There are other places that give age-based discounts (surprise, surprise), like restaurants and movie theaters. So, it is indeed relevant to our discussion here in comparing what various industries do by age.

Possibly things have changed (its been a few years since my kid was that young), but I thought the railfare for a kid in a sleeper was discounted.

The "railfare" is discounted but the sleeping accommodation charge is not. The "railfare" portion is effectively the coach fare and does not include

the extra charge for the room and meals. In other words, if an adult and a child book a roomette, the roomette charge is the same as when two adults

book the roomette.

So you could actually argue that a 7-year-old in a sleeper who orders their meal off the kids menu is actually subsidizing adults

in sleeping class who order the $25 steak since the room charge is the same for both persons.

You can read the entire kids policy on Amtrak's website.

There are also many rooms that allow a larger occupancy of children than adults (for example, a roomette can hold two adults or one adult and two children, but not three adults.) Both groups would still pay one accommodation charge, and three people are getting meals instead of two.

Plus, my understanding is that a child can order off the adult portion of the menu...so Amtrak could be paying for three steak meals instead of just two if both children and the adult want the steak.

 

[fairviewroad]

There are also many rooms that allow a larger occupancy of children than adults (for example, a roomette can hold two adults or one adult and two children, but not three adults.) Both groups would still pay one accommodation charge, and three people are getting meals instead of two.

Plus, my understanding is that a child can order off the adult portion of the menu...so Amtrak could be paying for three steak meals instead of just two if both children and the adult want the steak.

You are correct. In fact, there's a lot of different ways to slice it. And obviously a solo traveler, regardless of age, is "subsidizing" the sleeping charges of roomettes that hold two or more, since the solo traveler pays the same accommodation charge --which isn't fair, of course, but that's a whole other conversation. Personally, I wouldn't mind it if a child traveling with a child discount would be required to order off the kids menu...that seems fair...though the kids menu is admittedly rather limited.

 

[Old MM]

Only recently got to where son is no longer a half fare (last year) and now, as of this fall 2014, my daughter's reign ends as well. Three full fare tickets does factor into the travel equation. I understand completely if Amtrak sees a way to make money, but for us, it starts to make more sense to drive or fly, especially in the spring/summer months.

 

[rrdude]

And I still maintain that we can't run around like the sky is falling until the ridership numbers come in. The constant continuum fallacies are only supporting my Chicken Little comparison.

By nature, I am not an alarmist. Assuming things are going to get worse and piling on suppositions only adds stress where stress may not be warranted. I prefer to have data/proof before reacting. Hence, I'll wait for the ridership numbers.

Sarah, while most rational people would agree with your position on this, what if, and it is a "what if", the numbers did decline? Do you honestly think Amtrak would change some of these policies? It is, as other posters have pointed out, a very, very, slippery slope.
The days of providing your own pillows, linen, and blanket, are not too far away if this continues.

(The sky is falling! The sky is falling!)