Cars to be rebuilt

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Another update on another board says the special train is sitting at the Toledo station until sometime tonight. It is apparently going to Chicago before going to Beech Grove.

Anyone around Toledo that can go get some pics? Also, anyone in Chicago can start looking for it tomorrow.
 
Also reported elsewhere...

All the stored P40 locomotives will be brought to Beech Grove probably in groups of 5 at a time, stripped down to bare metal then completely overhauled and rebuilt with the new Tier 2 additives which will include electronic governors and electronic air brakes. There is only one locomotive #809 which had the straight air brake system changed over to the electronic air brake system about 9 or 10 years ago at Beech Grove after the first batch of P42 locomotives arrived. This was basically done as a test checking for compatibility and it was successful.
If the above is true, does that mean they may not be going to the Auto Train?
 
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Also reported elsewhere...
All the stored P40 locomotives will be brought to Beech Grove probably in groups of 5 at a time, stripped down to bare metal then completely overhauled and rebuilt with the new Tier 2 additives which will include electronic governors and electronic air brakes. There is only one locomotive #809 which had the straight air brake system changed over to the electronic air brake system about 9 or 10 years ago at Beech Grove after the first batch of P42 locomotives arrived. This was basically done as a test checking for compatibility and it was successful.
If the above is true, does that mean they may not be going to the Auto Train?
Nothing's certain yet. But internal discussion has been leaning toward the Auto Train. As for the brakes being overhauled, that's news to me.

Rafi
 
If they redo the P40 brakes to the electronic type then there should be no reason for them not to roam the system. Sorry guys but those of us around Chicago, (well at least me), don't feel that the P40s should be reassigned only to the Auto train, (AT has made it this long with out them). I would love to see them on the IL Zephyr/Carl Sandburg, SWC, CZ or EB- three in a row all 800 series!
 
If they redo the P40 brakes to the electronic type then there should be no reason for them not to roam the system. Sorry guys but those of us around Chicago, (well at least me), don't feel that the P40s should be reassigned only to the Auto train, (AT has made it this long with out them). I would love to see them on the IL Zephyr/Carl Sandburg, SWC, CZ or EB- three in a row all 800 series!
Not true. If the P40s are kept captive to the Auto Train and Florida pool, it would simplify service requirements. Then only Ivy City, Lorton, Sanford, and Hialeah would need to have any qualifications on their mechanical specifics. Having them roam the system makes less sense then running them captivity.
 
Maybe its me, but the bedrooms not only have every possible rattle known to trains and at way higher volumes and lower bench seats that are too short for many to nap on without bending your neck way out of shape. The doors are missing most of the original latches and have hardware store replacements leaving holes in the doors. (high quality). And for another I very much disliked the disconnected look to the roof lines of the rooms. Its like being in a room with openings going off in several directions, just not a bit cozy like pullman or superliner bedrooms. The roomettes one saving grace that some seem not to like is having its own toilet. But again in the old days they were much better at blending them in out of the way than the new one is. I think the word for it might be "Cheap", except the fare. Oh yes as long a were on the viewliner trains, the diner is pitiful and the lounge is nearly nonexistent. I would take the Cardinal any day for quality of equipment and view. The equipment may be getting old and has its own flaws but in all my many sleeper trips the viewliner won out as worst by a long shot.
I've been in plenty of Superliner's that rattled every bit as much as the Viewliner's do. As for the bench seat, it's 3 inches shorter than a Superliner's, but that's some designer's fault, not the car's fault. Regarding the latches and locks, while I'll admit that I'm upset that Amtrak replaced the originals instead of fixing them, the new locks are identical to the Superliner locks.

As for Viewliner trains, they don't exist at least yet. It's not the fault of the Viewliner sleeper car's that Amtrak didn't buy Viewliner lounges, coaches, and diners. And the Cardinal uses single level equipment and a Viewliner sleeper, so I'm very confused by your statement that you'd take that any day for the quality of equipment.
Having been stuck in a Viewliner roomette more than once, due to the flimsy design and tendancy to wear of the original door hardware, I for one am glad they went back to the traditional, foolproof Adlake "hook and pin" design.

IMHO, when comparing roomettes between Superliner and Viewliner, the Viewliner wins easily as it has mirror, sink, toilet and upper berth windows. It is great for one person and more comfortable for two than the Superliner. Annoying rattles dont seem to discriminate between the two types, in my experience.

Gord
 
IMHO, when comparing roomettes between Superliner and Viewliner, the Viewliner wins easily as it has mirror, sink, toilet and upper berth windows.
Gord
Funny thing is, I prefer the Superliner because it does NOT have a sink and toilet. I personally hate having those in such a small room. The toilet requires privacy if you are with someone and the sink just makes a mess with it spraying everywhere. I also find the bed less comfortable with the dent in it to make room for the toilet/sink.

The only plus I see for the Viewliner is the upper bunk. Not only do I like the windows, I like how the bed is designed to slide down from the ceiling as opposed to the lean down kind in the Superliner.
 
IMHO, when comparing roomettes between Superliner and Viewliner, the Viewliner wins easily as it has mirror, sink, toilet and upper berth windows.
Gord
Funny thing is, I prefer the Superliner because it does NOT have a sink and toilet. I personally hate having those in such a small room. The toilet requires privacy if you are with someone and the sink just makes a mess with it spraying everywhere. I also find the bed less comfortable with the dent in it to make room for the toilet/sink.

The only plus I see for the Viewliner is the upper bunk. Not only do I like the windows, I like how the bed is designed to slide down from the ceiling as opposed to the lean down kind in the Superliner.
And how the upper bunk is the same a the lower one, and thus wider then that on the Superliner?
 
If they redo the P40 brakes to the electronic type then there should be no reason for them not to roam the system. Sorry guys but those of us around Chicago, (well at least me), don't feel that the P40s should be reassigned only to the Auto train, (AT has made it this long with out them). I would love to see them on the IL Zephyr/Carl Sandburg, SWC, CZ or EB- three in a row all 800 series!
Not true. If the P40s are kept captive to the Auto Train and Florida pool, it would simplify service requirements. Then only Ivy City, Lorton, Sanford, and Hialeah would need to have any qualifications on their mechanical specifics. Having them roam the system makes less sense then running them captivity.
I don't agree- first of all this is Amtrak we are talking about so whatever they may or may not end up doing may make sense to somebody but probably not us.

Second- It would seem to me the best idea for the P40s, (since they are supposedly rebuilding them from the ground up), is to make them in every respect the same as the P42s. Then they could be serviced and maintained anywhere and used as additional power at will. That's what I would do with them and that's what I hope they do with them.
 
If they redo the P40 brakes to the electronic type then there should be no reason for them not to roam the system. Sorry guys but those of us around Chicago, (well at least me), don't feel that the P40s should be reassigned only to the Auto train, (AT has made it this long with out them). I would love to see them on the IL Zephyr/Carl Sandburg, SWC, CZ or EB- three in a row all 800 series!
Not true. If the P40s are kept captive to the Auto Train and Florida pool, it would simplify service requirements. Then only Ivy City, Lorton, Sanford, and Hialeah would need to have any qualifications on their mechanical specifics. Having them roam the system makes less sense then running them captivity.
I don't agree- first of all this is Amtrak we are talking about so whatever they may or may not end up doing may make sense to somebody but probably not us.

Second- It would seem to me the best idea for the P40s, (since they are supposedly rebuilding them from the ground up), is to make them in every respect the same as the P42s. Then they could be serviced and maintained anywhere and used as additional power at will. That's what I would do with them and that's what I hope they do with them.
I disagree. First, P40s are just that. They can't be just like P42s 'in every respect' and thus have their own maintenance requirements / needs. So, to be most efficient, you would want to maintain them at as few locations as possible. So it makes total sense to make them captive to a relatively small region and/or route.

It's the same reason Southwest Airlines only flies 737s, to keep maintenance costs down.
 
If they redo the P40 brakes to the electronic type then there should be no reason for them not to roam the system. Sorry guys but those of us around Chicago, (well at least me), don't feel that the P40s should be reassigned only to the Auto train, (AT has made it this long with out them). I would love to see them on the IL Zephyr/Carl Sandburg, SWC, CZ or EB- three in a row all 800 series!
Not true. If the P40s are kept captive to the Auto Train and Florida pool, it would simplify service requirements. Then only Ivy City, Lorton, Sanford, and Hialeah would need to have any qualifications on their mechanical specifics. Having them roam the system makes less sense then running them captivity.
I don't agree- first of all this is Amtrak we are talking about so whatever they may or may not end up doing may make sense to somebody but probably not us.

Second- It would seem to me the best idea for the P40s, (since they are supposedly rebuilding them from the ground up), is to make them in every respect the same as the P42s. Then they could be serviced and maintained anywhere and used as additional power at will. That's what I would do with them and that's what I hope they do with them.
Does that include spending a million bucks or so to replace the prime mover? Seriously. They look the same, but they are different as night and day under that skin. Only the chassis is similar. The P42 is a Dash-9, the P40 a Dash-8, for one thing.
 
It's the same reason Southwest Airlines only flies 737s, to keep maintenance costs down.
Which is exactly why the P40s should be rebuilt to match the P42.
 
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Which is exactly why the P40s should be rebuilt to match the P42.
But again, that is not practical at all. It's like saying we should rebuild an 727 to be like a 737. I'll give you that a P40 is more similar to a P42 than a 727 is to a 737, but you get my point. To rebuild a P40 just like a P42, you would have to in essence build a brand new P42.

Perhaps a better airplane analogy would be to rebuild a 737-200 just like a 737-700. They have the same basic body, but have totaly different engines, avionics, and MANY other substantial differences. That is why Boeing calls the 737-700, 800, and 900 'next generation'. It is impossible to retrofit a 737-200 to be like a 737-700.
 
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If they redo the P40 brakes to the electronic type then there should be no reason for them not to roam the system. Sorry guys but those of us around Chicago, (well at least me), don't feel that the P40s should be reassigned only to the Auto train, (AT has made it this long with out them). I would love to see them on the IL Zephyr/Carl Sandburg, SWC, CZ or EB- three in a row all 800 series!
Not true. If the P40s are kept captive to the Auto Train and Florida pool, it would simplify service requirements. Then only Ivy City, Lorton, Sanford, and Hialeah would need to have any qualifications on their mechanical specifics. Having them roam the system makes less sense then running them captivity.
I don't agree- first of all this is Amtrak we are talking about so whatever they may or may not end up doing may make sense to somebody but probably not us.

Second- It would seem to me the best idea for the P40s, (since they are supposedly rebuilding them from the ground up), is to make them in every respect the same as the P42s. Then they could be serviced and maintained anywhere and used as additional power at will. That's what I would do with them and that's what I hope they do with them.
Does that include spending a million bucks or so to replace the prime mover? Seriously. They look the same, but they are different as night and day under that skin. Only the chassis is similar. The P42 is a Dash-9, the P40 a Dash-8, for one thing.
I don't believe that they are night and day different under the hood but I'm no expert. I'm sure there are plenty of similarities, they were re-geared for 110mph and 4200 hp previously if I'm not mistaking.

I don't have any of the specifics as to what is exactly going to be done to the P40s but if they are taking the trouble to rebuild them why not go all the way.

According to Amtrak they are spending $13 million on 15 units or an estimated cost of $867,000 per unit. New units run about 2 million, so I think that's quite an overhaul. The ARRA sheet states, "for long distance service" it does not say for the Auto Train. Which is what I'm hoping for. I guess time will tell.
 
Does that include spending a million bucks or so to replace the prime mover? Seriously. They look the same, but they are different as night and day under that skin. Only the chassis is similar. The P42 is a Dash-9, the P40 a Dash-8, for one thing.
Woooh! GML in talking sense shocker!

What he says is right, overhauling the P40s is one thing, converting them into P42s is something completely different and maybe it would be cheaper to just build new P42s....

Makes sense to get them up and running again and by keeping them on one route like the Auto Train concentrates the knowledge and spares to just a few locations, rather than systemwide.
 
Just to re-calibrate here...

It's just the first two out of the Grove that there's been some speculation of moving to captive service on the Auto Train. And yes, to turn a P40 into a P42 is not a simple matter, and that's not what they're doing. These will still be P40 engines when the Grove turns them loose. But I think you'll see the engines in captive services around the system so they can be repaired and maintained by shops with the knowhow. You wouldn't want one ending up DOA in Boston, for example.

Rafi
 
IMHO, when comparing roomettes between Superliner and Viewliner, the Viewliner wins easily as it has mirror, sink, toilet and upper berth windows. It is great for one person and more comfortable for two than the Superliner. Annoying rattles dont seem to discriminate between the two types, in my experience.
I have to agree. The Viewliner roomette is the easy winner, for all the reasons you mention. I'll add one more, ceiling height. Because of that, you can lower the upper buck, and still have lots of headroom for the two seats below.

BTW, it is far easier to not use the toilet in the Viewliner roomette if it really bothers you, than the "go" in a Superliner roomette. :D What we do on the Viewliner, is the other roomette mate, goes for a walk. Good excuse to stretch you legs and check out the rest of the train.
 
Perhaps a better airplane analogy would be to rebuild a 737-200 just like a 737-700. They have the same basic body, but have totally different engines, avionics, and MANY other substantial differences. That is why Boeing calls the 737-700, 800, and 900 'next generation'. It is impossible to retrofit a 737-200 to be like a 737-700.
I am not that sure if the goal is to rebuild both a 737-200 and a 737-700, that one couldn't rebuild them to both use the same jet engines. Also, if they can rebuild a shuttle with totally new avionics (switch to a glass cockpit, amongst other improves), I bet one could upgrade a 737-200's avionics to state-of-the-art too (just might cost a bit).
 
BTW, it is far easier to not use the toilet in the Viewliner roomette if it really bothers you, than the "go" in a Superliner roomette. :D What we do on the Viewliner, is the other roomette mate, goes for a walk. Good excuse to stretch you legs and check out the rest of the train.
Except that there are no public toilets on a Viewliner thus you have to go to the lounge or coaches and those bathrooms can get pretty nasty. Not to mention someone going right next to where you sit and sleep.
 
I am not that sure if the goal is to rebuild both a 737-200 and a 737-700, that one couldn't rebuild them to both use the same jet engines. Also, if they can rebuild a shuttle with totally new avionics (switch to a glass cockpit, amongst other improves), I bet one could upgrade a 737-200's avionics to state-of-the-art too (just might cost a bit).
No airline in its right mind with any business sense will ever attempt to rebuild a 737-200 into a 737-700. It is probably cheaper to sell the 737-200 in secondary market or junk it depending on the number of cycles it has gone through and buy a new 737-700s than to go through the exercise of fixing a new wing on a 737-200, which is what will be needed to change it into a 737-700, even before you deal with getting it new engines and new avionics and new everything else practically. Maybe the unused ashtray in the cockpit could be re-used ;) .
 
BTW, it is far easier to not use the toilet in the Viewliner roomette if it really bothers you, than the "go" in a Superliner roomette. :D What we do on the Viewliner, is the other roomette mate, goes for a walk. Good excuse to stretch you legs and check out the rest of the train.
Except that there are no public toilets on a Viewliner thus you have to go to the lounge or coaches and those bathrooms can get pretty nasty. Not to mention someone going right next to where you sit and sleep.
Rumor has it that the new Viewliners will be built with no toilets in the roomettes and with 2 shared toilets per car.
 
No airline in its right mind with any business sense will ever attempt to rebuild a 737-200 into a 737-700. It is probably cheaper to sell the 737-200 in secondary market or junk it depending on the number of cycles it has gone through and buy a new 737-700s than to go through the exercise of fixing a new wing on a 737-200, which is what will be needed to change it into a 737-700, even before you deal with getting it new engines and new avionics and new everything else practically. Maybe the unused ashtray in the cockpit could be re-used ;) .
One can't replace the jet engines in a 737-200 without also fixing new wings on it too? I didn't know that. Must have been designed in Detroit!
 
BTW, it is far easier to not use the toilet in the Viewliner roomette if it really bothers you, than the "go" in a Superliner roomette. :D What we do on the Viewliner, is the other roomette mate, goes for a walk. Good excuse to stretch you legs and check out the rest of the train.
Except that there are no public toilets on a Viewliner thus you have to go to the lounge or coaches and those bathrooms can get pretty nasty. Not to mention someone going right next to where you sit and sleep.
Rumor has it that the new Viewliners will be built with no toilets in the roomettes and with 2 shared toilets per car.
Wonder where they would fit them?
 
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