Looks like all bucket pricing has changed or no longer exist. (I hope these aren't the lowest bucket prices!!!!!!) Will the points needed to purchase bedrooms increase be coming soon also? I would think Chase wouldn't like that as it would severely decrease the need for their card as it would take twice as long to accumulate points enough to do so. May force some of us to change our habits to other ventures???
Bedroom Pricing increasing everywhere!!!!!!
- Thread starter amfan
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Ryan
Court Jester
What routes/dates are you looking at - looking at the Cap Limited for random dates in the fall, things still look "normal".
If bucket pricing goes away let it. We will just refuse to pay high bucket fares, so let Amtrak discover for themselves that higher buckets mean less revenue,
If higher bucket prices only is really the new rule, then Amtrak just won't have many customers left. It will be a cold day in hell before we pay $400-$600 for a bedroom on an overnight trip. We'll just start driving again and say to hell with them but before we reach a conclusion lets try to get a handle on the fare structure.
In years past, railroads kept the sleeper prices low to attract passengers to the rails but the big difference was that they had the equipment to support any and all demand.
Ryan
Court Jester
I'm not sure why you keep beating that drum, Amtrak isn't that dumb. If they're going to start practicing more aggressive revenue management in order to maximize the revenue on their limited space, good for them!
Ispolkom
Engineer
Looking at April 25, I thought the low price for a roomette CHI-WAS was up a couple of dollars, and I know the roomette price MSP-MOT is up two dollars from $88 to $90. Still, nothing enormous. CHI-EMY is $1195 for a bedroom, but unlike others I've never see good prices for bedrooms on the California Zephyr.
I checked #20 the other day and a bedroom was actually less than a roomette about 3 months out. <_<
Yep as usual the supporters of screwing the public who have paid for this service in the first place seems to be the response of many Amtrak apologist. I agree that 400.00 a night is more than enough to pay for a room with in many cases almost nothing else of value to show for it. Budget airlines ( which many here like to point to as great models) seem to have found that offering a cheaper fare encourages more riders not less. In the long run creating more revenue. Which makes more an empty train which high priced rooms or one with less expensive rooms that are full?
Problem being here is that due to the extremely limited amount of rooms on nearly all long distance trains there is no doubt always going to be those with "deep" pockets that can pay no matter what the cost. Seems like the government is then pursuing that same policy they seem to hate of letting the perks go to those with money.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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There is no credible evidence, none at all, that the government hates to let the perks go to those with money. <_<
haolerider
Conductor
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I am always amazed at the conspiricy theories that abound when pricing is discussed. Bedrooms are the classic case of low supply and high demand. To price them low to attract riders would not be good revenue management. They are in demand because of their limited numbers and because this is the beginning of the summer season. I don't think you will see any of the air carriers lowering their First Class pricing to attract passengers - it just doesn't make sense. A bedroom is not a perk, it is a product and as such is sold at whatever the traveling public will pay. Your comment about "screwing the public that have paid for this service" is also nonsense. No one is screwing anyone! If you haven't got the money to buy a bedroom then purchase a roomette and if you can't do that, buy a coach ticket. I am not an apologist for Amtrak, in fact, if this were a Southwest, Jet Blue or AirTran forum, I would still defend their right to charge whatever they can get for their highest rated product. End of story!
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This is (like all the others about "Amtrak fares are too high!") turning into a ridiculous thread.
A few days ago, I was checking California Zephyr service CHI-EMY for the month of June. In over half the days that I checked, all sleepers were sold out. On the remaining dates, there were maybe one or two rooms left.
If Amtrak could throw two or three more sleepers onto that train, they probably would, and those cars would sell out. However, they can't. The equipment simply isn't there. So, what reason is there for Amtrak to lower the fare? Things in low supply and high demand cost more. That's the way it is.
Lowering the fares will not increase the ridership counts, because there isn't any room to accommodate more people. It will only cost Amtrak much-needed revenue, therefore lowering the cost recovery of the train, increasing the required subsidy, and increasing the likelihood that Amtrak's opponents will demand that the "money-losing venture" be shut down.
It sure would be nice if some folks would take an economics class before posting on here, rather than basing their entire position on "I'm not going to pay more than $X, therefore Amtrak should never charge more than $X when I'm looking to book a trip." Never mind that lowering the fare to $X would not only lower the revenue, but it would also cause the trains to sell out even faster, meaning that by the time you got around to checking fares, you still wouldn't be able to get a room.
A few days ago, I was checking California Zephyr service CHI-EMY for the month of June. In over half the days that I checked, all sleepers were sold out. On the remaining dates, there were maybe one or two rooms left.
If Amtrak could throw two or three more sleepers onto that train, they probably would, and those cars would sell out. However, they can't. The equipment simply isn't there. So, what reason is there for Amtrak to lower the fare? Things in low supply and high demand cost more. That's the way it is.
Lowering the fares will not increase the ridership counts, because there isn't any room to accommodate more people. It will only cost Amtrak much-needed revenue, therefore lowering the cost recovery of the train, increasing the required subsidy, and increasing the likelihood that Amtrak's opponents will demand that the "money-losing venture" be shut down.
It sure would be nice if some folks would take an economics class before posting on here, rather than basing their entire position on "I'm not going to pay more than $X, therefore Amtrak should never charge more than $X when I'm looking to book a trip." Never mind that lowering the fare to $X would not only lower the revenue, but it would also cause the trains to sell out even faster, meaning that by the time you got around to checking fares, you still wouldn't be able to get a room.
wayman
Engineer
I hate to break it to you, but while Amtrak Unlimited folk may be Amtrak's most knowledgeable and enthusiastic patrons, we're a very small fraction of their total ridership. Whether you're personally willing to pay that much or not doesn't matter a whit. Whether everyone on this entire message board is willing or not doesn't matter. Lots of people are probably willing, and it only takes several dozen per train to fill the sleepers. Amtrak has doubtless done the calculations (assuming they actually have changed their pricing policy -- all we have to go on is scattered anecdotal evidence so far).
Who knows, it may hugely alter the demographics of Amtrak sleeper ridership. It may kill off the use of Amtrak sleeper accommodations by Americans using Amtrak as a mode of transportation, in favor of foreigners using it as a "rail cruise" almost exclusively. But I doubt it will reduce revenue. And (though it's unfortunate for many of us) Amtrak is actually a business, with very limited resources and a mandate to do the best they can revenue-wise. If this move increases revenue, it is the correct thing for Amtrak to do.
In an ideal world, they would be able operate like a revenue-maximizing business and have the freedom to acquire enough sleeper cars to fill all demand at a variety of pricing levels. We know that with a bucket system making low fares available, Amtrak's sleeper cars still break even above the rails.
But we don't live in that world. We live in a world where Amtrak has only two or three sleepers per train, ever. And we live in a world where luxury vacations have become much more the thing to do than they were in, say, the 1940s. Perhaps Amtrak has realized there's a better way to run their business to maximize their revenue given their resources, by taking advantage of the potential for larger sleeper profits to offset other losses.
If their plan works (if in fact this is their plan at all -- we have no idea), perhaps they will gain some leverage to ask for more sleeper cars per train. Who knows. Of course, that would take a decade. That doesn't work well for you. But it may work very well for Amtrak.
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PetalumaLoco
Conductor
I have. I have bedrooms booked on the CZ from California to Chicago, then on the CL to Washington, then biz class on NEC all the way to Connecticut for 2 pax for only $100 more than that. Last year I got a similar price.
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Ryan
Court Jester
The only thing that I support is Amtrak earning as much revenue as possible. The more revenue, the better their chances at expansion (both in more routes and longer trains). I'm not sure the label of "Amtrak apologist" fits either - I'm perfectly willing to throw them under the bus when they screw up, but I also realize that they operate here in the real world, with real constraints.
The train is going to be full either way - what makes more revenue, a sold out train with cheap rooms or a sold out train with expensive rooms?
Sounds like sour grapes to me. If you want cheap, take the dog or ride coach (or stay home).
G
Guest
Guest
Still cheaper than a first class airline ticket, and much nicer too.
sunchaser
Conductor
Amtrak is subsidized by the Fed (taxpayers) & still does not make enough to cover the remaining costs at the fare box.
As much as I would prefer for the prices to stay lower, I don't know how they could do it without a lot more sleepers.
Then, why should they lower the prices?
Amtrak should make money, not lose money, or at least break even.
Really, the question is, do you want to pay a lower price for sleepers by having higher taxes, or higher when you buy your tickets?
We are really paying more than we think for riding Amtrak through taxes, and others who never ride pay for it too.
As much as I would prefer for the prices to stay lower, I don't know how they could do it without a lot more sleepers.
Then, why should they lower the prices?
Amtrak should make money, not lose money, or at least break even.
Really, the question is, do you want to pay a lower price for sleepers by having higher taxes, or higher when you buy your tickets?
We are really paying more than we think for riding Amtrak through taxes, and others who never ride pay for it too.
I am not advocating that Amtrak lower prices, although as the equipment ages, the accomodations do deteriorate over time, so the consumer gets less for their money. I just believe that prices are already high enough and that raising them any higher will hurt both the consumer and the railroad. Yes Amtak is subsidized by the taxpapers but with all the jobs that Amtrak has created to run and maintain it, there is a giant return to the federal government in incomes taxes from their employees. Say they pay their SCA's $800 per week, about $160 goes back in taxes. Therefore on the balance sheet, the labor rates are calculated at a before tax rate, never mentioning who receives the income taxes. The statement may not show it but Amtrak may actually be making momey. Now figure in all the people that need to be employed by the companies that supply the food, sanitation services, fuel, uniforms,etc. These jobs that were created especially to support income tax are income tax revenue streams for the federal government as well.
Finally take a look at the Amtrak NE corridor run. They recently lowered prices and now every train is full or nearly full. On this route and to the cities that they serve, Amtrak has more passenger traffic than the airlines do.
pebbleworm
Lead Service Attendant
- Joined
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- 257
I recently booked bedrooms at (my best guess) second bucket for a round trip on the Southwest Chief at xmas, so the variable fares are still there.
printman2000
Engineer
I will not get into the argument of how much is too much. That is an individual thing.
Something weird is going on.
If I price a roomette from Lamy, NM to Chicago on March 1, 2011, it is low bucket of $220. If you do any date after March 1st, you will see it is $465. (info accurate as of May 26, 2010) More than double the low bucket price.
For some reason, they are starting the price very high for March 2, 2011 and on.
Possible explanations...
- March 2, 2011 is when a new, high price for rooms starts.
- They are starting room prices high when first released and will lower them eventually
- Could be rooms are already being bought and pushing the price up. (not likely, since it is EVERY day after March 1st).
Doing a quick comparison to the CZ, I do not see the same thing happening so it may be just a SWC thing.
Something weird is going on.
If I price a roomette from Lamy, NM to Chicago on March 1, 2011, it is low bucket of $220. If you do any date after March 1st, you will see it is $465. (info accurate as of May 26, 2010) More than double the low bucket price.
For some reason, they are starting the price very high for March 2, 2011 and on.
Possible explanations...
- March 2, 2011 is when a new, high price for rooms starts.
- They are starting room prices high when first released and will lower them eventually
- Could be rooms are already being bought and pushing the price up. (not likely, since it is EVERY day after March 1st).
Doing a quick comparison to the CZ, I do not see the same thing happening so it may be just a SWC thing.
printman2000
Engineer
I just looked at the EB and going from Seattle to Chicago in a roomette costs $220 at low bucket. That is crazy cheap for a 45 hour trip. The above trip on the SWC is only 24 hours. By the way, the March 2 date does not seem to apply to the EB either. Must just be a SWC thing. Hopefully it will work out before I book my next years trip.
M
MikefromCrete
Guest
Everybody seems to be getting excited about something that may not even be happening. Amfan complains about super high fares, but the other posters claim the same or slightly higher fares. If Amfan would tell us what route or routes he is talking about, then maybe a comparison could be made. As other posters have said there are only a certain number of bedrooms available due to a lack of equipment, so if demand is high then the prices will rise. If the rooms aren't sold at a high fare, they'll drop. Right now all the facts aren't available.
G
Guest
Guest
March is the beginning of the busy spring break season when many of us northerners head to the southwest for school breaks. Amtrak has been at this for a while, so I think they know they can expect high demand for sleepers during this time and are adjusting bucket allocations accordingly and perhaps having no lowest bucket rooms available at all. Makes perfect business sense to me.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
Nobody expects I-10 to "break even" so why should they expect Amtrak to? Does DB or JR break even? How about our airports, have they broken even? Why should Amtrak be held to a standard the rest of our infrastructure isn't held to? And, honestly, no budget of ours has any hope of breaking even until the war is over.
wayman
Engineer
Exactly: conditions are perfect for a heated argument on the internet :lol: :lol: :lol:
haolerider
Conductor
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Absolutely, as I have said before - "all it takes is a computer and an internet connection and anyone can be an instant expert"
and for goodness sakes, please do not challenge the "experts"!
amtrakwolverine
Engineer
Checking the SWC anytime in april the price for a roomette was over 600$ while a bed room and family bedroom were over 1000$ however checking again in feb 2011 the roomette was 301$. there high due to spring break. we will not know if the "new" price is permanent until after spring break but we can't book that far out yet.
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