Ryan
Court Jester
You should read your Bible some more then, there's some pretty gnarly stuff in there too. I guess that means that you're OK being profiled (I'm assuming that you're Christian)?
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
- Status
leemell
Conductor
What about Yosemite Sams tangents and secants? :giggle:
Last edited by a moderator:
leemell
Conductor
Probable cause is not required in this case, tp49 hit it right on the head:
"I can explain to you why the bags were searched. This is based on the case files I have read where people transporting narcotics were arrested in similar sweeps on Amtrak, I also have read a few files where people were caught transporting drugs on Greyhound as well. Even if the bags have tags on them with your name and address because they are not with you, meaning with your person or in your presence. Here as you presented the fact that the luggage was located in the "H" room and not in your room which to them (and they would act similarly if the bag was located in the lower level rack not just the "H" room) means the bag is unattended."
US Supreme Court held in California v. Greenwood (1988): "Quoting Katz v. United States, the court concluded that "[w]hat a person knowingly exposes to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection."
mercedeslove
Lead Service Attendant
Ugh both The Army of God and the Hutaree make me sick Esp. Army of God. I don't know who I hate more them or those against Gay marriage. It's a hard choice because both have similar and disgusting bigoted views.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Nihilism?
Though one could argue Nihilism is the natural antithesis of the Judeo-Christian ethical system meaning it is an inherent part of said system.
Please, lets try to keep this on topic and not venture off into non-train areas and issues.
Thank!
Thank!
VentureForth
Engineer
So, instead of wandering off into political and religious battlefields, how about using this thread to document "excessive" Border Patrol searches? I would be interested in the frequency of such searches.
I have travelled to ABQ, SAV, DAL, CHI, LAX and even SAN and have yet to experience cops interrogating/questioning/searching anyone. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen - I know it does. But is the intensity and frequency so bad to leave such a horrible experience on one's mind?
Incidently, the only situation that I'm closest to was when I sent my daughter to VA. Some drunk woman got kicked off the train to an awaiting police cruiser. My kid's first trip. Why don't I get to experience that kind of action? I'm kinda jealous....
I have travelled to ABQ, SAV, DAL, CHI, LAX and even SAN and have yet to experience cops interrogating/questioning/searching anyone. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen - I know it does. But is the intensity and frequency so bad to leave such a horrible experience on one's mind?
Incidently, the only situation that I'm closest to was when I sent my daughter to VA. Some drunk woman got kicked off the train to an awaiting police cruiser. My kid's first trip. Why don't I get to experience that kind of action? I'm kinda jealous....
Last edited by a moderator:
caravanman
Engineer
While on our recent visit to USA, we were aboard the Lake Shore Limited, travelling from Chicago to New York. At Depew, I stepped off the train for a little fresh air. My 16 year old son was asleep in the coach window seat. Several guys in boiler suits boarded the train, and a few minutes later one appeared with my son. He had been woken abruptly, was groggy from his sleep, and had no luck finding his passport. I intervened and matters were resolved.
It is more the attitude of intimidation towards the train passengers that is upsetting to us as visitors, one got the sour taste of living under suspicion, in a police state, not in the land of the free...
"Protect and Serve" sounds good, "Bully and Menace" not so good!
Ed
It is more the attitude of intimidation towards the train passengers that is upsetting to us as visitors, one got the sour taste of living under suspicion, in a police state, not in the land of the free...
"Protect and Serve" sounds good, "Bully and Menace" not so good!
Ed
Since I have never experienced any of this, what specific questions do they ask folks when they board the train? Does every passenger have to show some ID? Are they knocking on sleeping room doors and waking those folks up? Just curious. Thanks!!
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
From what I understand the same lawyer who helped write AZ's anti-immigrant law has helped other localities write similar laws, and they eventually got stuck with an unenforceable law and lots of expensive legal bills they could scarcely afford. I'm not against enforcing the law, I'm against the way AZ did it. Racial profiling is no good in the land of the free, at least in my view it's not. Neither is promotion of frivolous lawsuits against the authorities, which was also contained in the AZ law. Sure, they did some last minute cleanup to try and pacify the detractors, but I'm still not convinced it will be handled in a moral or ethical manner.
MattW
Conductor
Where does the AZ law call for racial profiling? Nowhere in the text of the law do I see anything about using race, in fact, it explicitly says that race shall not be used as a determining factor. Last I checked,illegal was not a race. If Mexicans happen to make up the majority of illegal immigrants in Arizona, then don't complain to Arizona, complain to the illegals, or Mexico, or CBP for being too lazy to properly secure the border!
Ryan
Court Jester
If you're truly interested in an answer, do some reading on how suspicion of being in this country illegally is going to be developed (and the issues with each of them).Please, lets try to keep this on topic and not venture off into non-train areas and issues.
Thank!
Getting back on track hopefully: Good questions Tom! Living in the SW close to the border as I do, frequent sightings of DEA/Border Patrol and other law enforcement and military seconded to Border affairs is common. Ive also been on most of the LD trains in this country and my experience is as follows: IT DEPENDS! :blink:
Some of the checkpoint/sweep members are proffesional and even friendly, ALL of the dogs are scarey! (They even announce in thetrain station announcements:"Please do not attempt to pet the dogs!")Of course I am an Anglo, have a Texas accent and have never been asked for ID except when crossing into the US from foriegn nations.( includes Canada and Mexico)
The usual question is :" What country are you a citizen of?" If you say US they say have a good day or something similar and you move on!For those that answer something else, they are either asked to "show your papers" or come inside for farther interrigation!
Most of these people DO NOT have a sense of humour, so it's best not to joke around or make flip comments, just answer what you are asked, show your ID if requested and let them move on! It's guaranteed if you develop an attitude that they can make things very unpleasant and complicated for anyone! If someone treats you poorly ask for their name/badge number(they usualkly wear name tags) and/or their supervisor in a polite and calm manner and report your concerns! Confortation with law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties is not a good idea, as the old saying goes: "we have ways to make you talk!" As others have said: they DO have the right to search your bags,question you etc. on any public convience (train/plane/bus etc.) or in any station/terminal/airport etc. Just like in "Pulp Fiction", the best policy is to "Be cool.." I do not like attitudes and bullying by any government official but in my experience these are the exception rather than the rule, I still feel lots better on a train than any airport, driving through a road checkpoint or crossing a border! As the commercial says:"your mileage may vary."
Last edited by a moderator:
Tom,
In all my travels I've seen the border patrol board the LSL several times, seems like it's a daily occurance there. I've also seen them in El Paso, along with DEA agents, although it seemed like there were more agents on the ground than on the train.
In the case of the LSL, I've yet to see them walk through the sleepers, they only seem to search/question the coach passengers.
In all my travels I've seen the border patrol board the LSL several times, seems like it's a daily occurance there. I've also seen them in El Paso, along with DEA agents, although it seemed like there were more agents on the ground than on the train.
In the case of the LSL, I've yet to see them walk through the sleepers, they only seem to search/question the coach passengers.
Probably why I've never seen them, then. I'm always in the sleeper!
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
That's so funny that only the coach pax are routinely questioned. Seems extremely easy to avoid the reach of the law just by getting a sleeper. But then, that's what some of us are talking about when we call this type of response "Security Theater." It also explains why I haven't noticed much of this on my own trains despite them heading through checkpoints near Acuña and Juárez.
C
Choo Choo
Guest
"just answer what you are asked, show your ID if requested and let them move on! It's guaranteed if you develop an attitude that they can make things very unpleasant and complicated for anyone!"
No! How am I developing an "attitude" by not answering their stupid questions? They are the ones bothering me. I am merely sitting by myself minding my own business. Don't shine a flashnight in my face, and don't ask me questions as to where I am going/who I am seeing - it's none of your damn business!
No! How am I developing an "attitude" by not answering their stupid questions? They are the ones bothering me. I am merely sitting by myself minding my own business. Don't shine a flashnight in my face, and don't ask me questions as to where I am going/who I am seeing - it's none of your damn business!
CNW
Service Attendant
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2010
- Messages
- 219
Alot of it boils down to how much a person wants to let it spoil his or her trip. Personally I would comply with the requests and give it no more thought and continue to enjoy my travels. However we all pick our battles and if this is the one you have picked that is your perogative. Good Luck.
haolerider
Conductor
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 1,436
You seem to be fixated on the "don't shine a flashlight in my face" issue. Actually, if the people doing the questioning are charged with doing a specific job and part of that includes wanting to know where people are going and what they are doing it is their business - in fact it is their job! As I have said before with 25M + riding Amtrak, I imagine the incidence of this kind of questioning is very small - in fact probably statisticly insignificant. It bothers you and that is your business; however I think your trip would be more pleasant if you didn't make such a big deal about this. Relax and enjoy the journey!
I'd think it would be much simpler just to answer questions and go on. I don't think it's worth the battle. And no I'm not giving up my precious freedom if I answer questions. That said, I've never seen DEA on the trains I've been on. The worst hassle I ever had was at the Canadian border---by an American border agent. I'd driven from my home---about 3 1/2 hours from the border---into Canada, with no problems, did a little sight-seeing, and went back the same day. Problem was trying to get back into the US. The young gal at the border was incredibly rude and incredibly nasty. I don't believe in being confrontational to authorities, so even though she didn't appear to believe one thing I said, and was very confrontational herself, it was a one-way confrontation, as I bit my tongue and answered questions. She then demanded to search my trunk, which I allowed her to do, and then demanded to search my fishing tackle box, which I also allowed her to do. Guess what it held???? Fishing tackle! Among that tackle were fishooks, which I keep in a neat snarl within my box. A handful of fishhooks, while making her madder than ever, also put an end to the interrogation. :lol:
leemell
Conductor
Perfect summary.
leemell
Conductor
If it is Border Patrol and within 100 miles of the border, they also have the right to ask any of those questions.
Last edited by a moderator:
C
Choo Choo
Guest
Yeah, and I also have the right not to answer any of them.
and then they have the right to detain you. Do you really wish to continue with this foolishness?
leemell
Conductor
The Border essentially exists within 100 miles of the actual physical Border between countries. Within that space, Border Patrol officers are allow to stop and question individuals without needing a reason. You are legally obligated to answer questions about citizenship, and can be detained if you refuse. "...questioning about immigration status, in the absence of a seizure, does not require reasonable suspicion of alienage.” "Zepeda, 753 F.2d at 731. See also Cuevas-Ortega v. INS, 588 F.2d 1274 (9th Cir. 1979); Cordon de Ruano v. INS, 588 F.2d 1274 (9th Cir. 1977)."
That is both the obligation of questionee and limitation on the questioner.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status
Latest posts
-
-
-
Eric & Pat’s May 2024 Trip Report: San Diego - Toledo - San Diego- Latest: Eric in East County
-
-
