Amtrak and Florida

[AlanB]

How do you figure that it doesn't affect Auto Train. Last time I checked Deland is at A750 and Sanford is at A765. So by your own logic the Auto Train is very much affected by this.

That is incorrect. Auto Train has seperate contracts and it runs on its own and not operate under Amtrak rules or anything. It is running seperate business because of congress set the rules for that route.

Amtrak has contract with CSX FOR Silver Trains ONLY. So therefore, SIlver trains WILL be affected. Get it?

No I don't get it. Can someone explain if this is correct?

If Amtrak does not want to run on track because of liability issues they are not going to pick and choose which trains to run, they will either run trains or not. Or so I would think...

My god, you cant read? I am saying Amtrak Auto Train is SEPERATE from all regular Amtrak routes and it has seperate policy and law rules and a seperate contract with CSX and other freight companies.

CLEAR?

No... it is not clear. You are making a statement that makes no sense to me and are providing no documentation for what you are saying. I'm trying to ask you to please explain what you say and you suggest that I cannot read.

Amtrak operates the Auto Train... therefore the Auto Train operates under Amtrak rules and policies. Yes the Auto Train MAY have a seperate contract with CSX, but Amtraks operation of the Auto Train should not be any different than other Amtrak trains.

Is the Auto Train an Amtrak Train? ( I would think yes but I want to make sure it's not operated by Amtrak but in fact technically owned by another organization).

As you see, you do not know how Auto Train operates. Remember Amtrak bough the auto train from a private company in 1980s and Congress made a rule that it will be SEPERATE from regular Amtrak routes and ANYONE who wants to ride it MUST have a car/suv/motorcycle to ride it so it's a special train service just for Auto Train.

Amtrak has a seperate contract with CSX for this and it does not affect ANY other routes if it being closed or no longer for service.

Thank you.

While you are correct that the Auto Train runs under separate contracts for the employees and such, the liability issues still apply to all trains operated by Amtrak. Whether Amtrak will choose to stop running the Auto Train because it is a big money maker and/or because it traverses so little of Sunrail territory remains to be seen.

But the simple reality is that the same liability issues that threaten the Silver Star and the Silver Meteor, apply to the Auto Train as well.

 

[TransitRider]

I do not follow Sunrail PDF documents. The lawmakers passed and says $433 Million. Period. This is decided by lawmakers NOT CSX, NOT Sunrail, NOT FDOT, NOT Amtrak. Lawmakers decided and its final, it's $433 Million. Period.

The document Alan linked to (yes, hosted at the Sunrail website, but not a Sunrail document) is the actual "Contract for sale and purchase between State of Florida Department of Transportation and CSX Transportation Inc". In other words, it is the contract which we are all talking about, which governs this entire issue.

How Reuters chooses to report this is irrelevant; they're just a news service and they're not always correct. If you've got a source other than this Reuters article, please share it with us; but I can't imagine what you might have that's more authoritative than the contract cited above.

Mr. Transitrider:

Have you ever been involved in or been an observer of any incident or event that was reported in the news?

If so did you notice the discrepancies between the reality and the news reports? If there were none, you haad a very unique experience. Usually the news report is somewhere between about half wrong to completely unrecognisable in their description of the event. If it is on TV, turn off the sound and be skeptical about the pictures. This is particularly true when there is any form of political agenda by any of the participants in the development of the news items, and an absolute certainty if any of the participants or interviewees are politicians.

Alan has quoted the contract documents and correspondence between the parties involved. A very simple rule for acertaining the truth of any situation. Ignore what someone else says about it if you can get firsthand information. In this case, the contract documents are published. Alan has quoted them. If you doubt his word, then read these documents for yoursseolf and use that to form your conclusions.

Would that make you think it is important to be involved with news event about this? I do not care what Sunrail documents says. I tend to follow the state because they are the ones who are paying and they make requirements to be met before giving out the funding.

Sunrail documents are their proposed price list as HOW much to run the system, to buy, etc.. Not official and it's up to the lawmakers to decide.

Nothing to go further. Thank you

May I suggest that you roll down to the bottom of the Sunrail website. Note that the site is run by FDOT. There is no more official source on things than FDOT. The legislature cannot approve contracts that FDOT did not negotiate. In addition to a dozen other reasons why they can't, the most simple is that the Sunshine laws prohibit it.

And let me also say that you had best start learning to treat people with some respect or you're going to find yourself on moderator approval. I don't mind people posting their thoughts and opinions here, and I'll tolerate considerable disrespect to myself because I prefer to err on the side of caution, but I will not tolerate your treating other members with contempt.

Oh you are threating me? What happens to freedom of speech and opinions?? I require you or anyone to respect my words and statement I made here, regardless. Therefore, I do not need your permission to say what I want. If you think I am too childish here, so be it. I will not need to bother coming here once for all.

Thank you

 

[TVRM610]

While you are correct that the Auto Train runs under separate contracts for the employees and such, the liability issues still apply to all trains operated by Amtrak. Whether Amtrak will choose to stop running the Auto Train because it is a big money maker and/or because it traverses so little of Sunrail territory remains to be seen.
But the simple reality is that the same liability issues that threaten the Silver Star and the Silver Meteor, apply to the Auto Train as well.

This clears up my questions... Thanks Alan!

Incidently... it this "separate contract" unique to the auto-train? Or is it just that all amtrak trains have different contracts (for example the Silver Star and Silver Meteor are two separate trains, do they also have separate contracts)?

 

[AlanB]

And let me also say that you had best start learning to treat people with some respect or you're going to find yourself on moderator approval. I don't mind people posting their thoughts and opinions here, and I'll tolerate considerable disrespect to myself because I prefer to err on the side of caution, but I will not tolerate your treating other members with contempt.

Oh you are threating me? What happens to freedom of speech and opinions?? I require you or anyone to respect my words and statement I made here, regardless. Therefore, I do not need your permission to say what I want. If you think I am too childish here, so be it. I will not need to bother coming here once for all.

Thank you

You are quite correct that I'm threatenting you.

This is a privately owned website. It is not a government website. You have no right to freedom of speech here.

That said, the staff and I try very hard to allow everyone who does come here to have that right of Freedom of speech and to post their opinions. This site is filled with controversial opinions and posts. But by and large all of those posts are polite and treat people with respect, even if they aren't popular. We've had a few incidents recently where that hasn't happened, and in some cases people were contacted, in other's the offending material was deleted.

I'm not saying that you cannot come here and post what you think. I am saying that if you post here, that you will treat people with respect. If not, then all of your posts in the future will require that a moderator approves them, before they are visible to the general membership. And if that happens, those moderators will ensure that anything that they deem disrespectful to others is either edited or deleted, prior to allowing your post to be visible.

Clear?

 

[AlanB]

While you are correct that the Auto Train runs under separate contracts for the employees and such, the liability issues still apply to all trains operated by Amtrak. Whether Amtrak will choose to stop running the Auto Train because it is a big money maker and/or because it traverses so little of Sunrail territory remains to be seen.
But the simple reality is that the same liability issues that threaten the Silver Star and the Silver Meteor, apply to the Auto Train as well.

This clears up my questions... Thanks Alan!

Incidently... it this "separate contract" unique to the auto-train? Or is it just that all amtrak trains have different contracts (for example the Silver Star and Silver Meteor are two separate trains, do they also have separate contracts)?

TVRM,

Obviously Amtrak has seperate contracts with each host RR, however I'm not sure if they have seperate contracts for each train with each host, or just one general contract that covers all trains.

Regarding Amtrak crews, with the exception of the Auto Train, all operating and onboard service crews are covered by one contract. The Auto Trains crews are the only ones covered by a totally different contract. One that actually allows for Amtrak to rotate employees through various jobs. Normally a sleeping car attendant cannot be required to work the dining car for example. On the Auto Train an employee may do one run as an SCA, and the next run as an SA in the diner. Their next trip might see them in the coaches, before returning to the sleepers once again.

 

[Ryan]

What happens to freedom of speech and opinions?? I require you or anyone to respect my words and statement I made here, regardless. Therefore, I do not need your permission to say what I want. If you think I am too childish here, so be it. I will not need to bother coming here once for all.
Thank you

In addition to primary sources and secondary sources, put "freedom of speech", the site rules and a basic understanding of respect on your list of things to look up. I mean seriously, we're trying to help you here, and all you can do is keep insisting that you know more than us while demonstrating that you don't. I have some friends from High School that makes some pretty outlandish claims, but that doesn't make them true.

 

[TVRM610]

While you are correct that the Auto Train runs under separate contracts for the employees and such, the liability issues still apply to all trains operated by Amtrak. Whether Amtrak will choose to stop running the Auto Train because it is a big money maker and/or because it traverses so little of Sunrail territory remains to be seen.
But the simple reality is that the same liability issues that threaten the Silver Star and the Silver Meteor, apply to the Auto Train as well.

This clears up my questions... Thanks Alan!

Incidently... it this "separate contract" unique to the auto-train? Or is it just that all amtrak trains have different contracts (for example the Silver Star and Silver Meteor are two separate trains, do they also have separate contracts)?

TVRM,

Obviously Amtrak has seperate contracts with each host RR, however I'm not sure if they have seperate contracts for each train with each host, or just one general contract that covers all trains.

Regarding Amtrak crews, with the exception of the Auto Train, all operating and onboard service crews are covered by one contract. The Auto Trains crews are the only ones covered by a totally different contract. One that actually allows for Amtrak to rotate employees through various jobs. Normally a sleeping car attendant cannot be required to work the dining car for example. On the Auto Train an employee may do one run as an SCA, and the next run as an SA in the diner. Their next trip might see them in the coaches, before returning to the sleepers once again.

Ahhh.... this makes sense. I remember hearing a while ago how "on auto train they rotate crews" and didn't understand that... now it has all come together. Thanks!

 

[battalion51]

TransitRider, I've been around the block a time or two. Just because you have a friend that works for Amtrak doesn't mean what you're hearing is necessarily true. I've met many of the men and women who work Silver Service and Auto Train, and some of them know what the heck they're talking about, some of them follow the latest rumor, some of them don't know DTC from TWC. Just because someone wears the uniform and has been working for the company for 20 years doesn't mean they're reliable. To you, they might be reliable, to the rest of the world they fall in the DTC-TWC category.

Also, don't forget that there's a certain amount of street credibility that's relied upon in this community. Some of us have been around for years, have reliable sources for information, and have built a reputation. Others have not. At this point in time you fall into the latter category. This isn't a personal attack, just a fact of life. There was a point in time where I didn't have a lot of credibility here. It took time for me to prove that I generally know what the heck I'm talking about. And when I don't know I admit that I'm wrong with factual information, or that I might have fallen out of the loop on certain things. But you haven't been here long enough to prove these things. Just because you post something doesn't mean it's credible. Others have posted on the internet that our President is a Kenyan. Just because you say it doesn't make it true unless you have documentation from a credible source to prove that it's true. Credibility doesn't happen overnight. Please that recognize that you're new to this community, and like any relationship it takes time to build trust. As Alan said, this is a privately owned community, you don't have a right to freedom of speech here. Just like Sarah Palin needs to learn that the First Amendment only applies to censorship by the government, so do you. It is a privilege to be a member of this community. Don't throw it away because of something like this. Show us documented facts from a credible source and you might start to gain some of the credibility the Senior Members of this community have gained.