A Brit's View

[jis]

Chris,

Serious question: How are the connections in there (i.e. are you counting connections as part of the time involved)?

Most trains from Leeds that come to Kings Cross which is next door to St. Pancras so the connection in London would be quite convenient. There is pretty much hourly or better service from Leeds to London and hourly service from London St. Pancras to Burssels.

The connection in Brussels should be pretty straightforward, though I don't know how the timetables work out. Similarly a Koeln.

Texas Sunset,

I don't see catching up with China, but could you explain the situation with the Russkies and their trains that you mentioned? Also, it's not just Mexico where everything went to hell...a few corridors aside, most passenger rail service in Latin America collapsed in the 90s amid a wave of privatizations.

That is partly because they followed advice from the US establishment. It is somewhat ironical that US itself managed not to be able to follow the advice that its State Department and bodies controlled by it like the IMF was giving others. Many countries took the trouble to ignore such advice on how to run their affairs, much to the chagrin of the US establishment, but some chose to follow them more than others.

As for whether that had an adverse effect on the transportation network or not, there is no clear way of establishing an unequivocal answer to that since the two alternative experiments could not be carried out in parallel to see which results in what.

 

[AlanB]

Before walking to the other end he helps the motorman of the previous train who is by then at the other end complete the brake test, and then walks to the other end of the platform while the next train arrives.

Absolutely not! They perform no brake test; I ride it more than enough to know. I know what one sounds like, not to mention that they would need to communicate and I have never heard any such communication. Motorman 1 gets off and just starts walking, while number 2 sets up his cab and pulls out. Heck, many's the time that I've stood at the railfan window, meaning that I can also see and hear what's going on in the cab.

So I can assure you that no brake test is performed!

 

[jis]

Before walking to the other end he helps the motorman of the previous train who is by then at the other end complete the brake test, and then walks to the other end of the platform while the next train arrives.

Absolutely not! They perform no brake test; I ride it more than enough to know. I know what one sounds like, not to mention that they would need to communicate and I have never heard any such communication. Motorman 1 gets off and just starts walking, while number 2 sets up his cab and pulls out. Heck, many's the time that I've stood at the railfan window, meaning that I can also see and hear what's going on in the cab.

So I can assure you that no brake test is performed!

OK I stand corrected. And I can assure you that they do a brake test on the EMUs in India whenever they change operating cabs.

In other places they appear to have some brake test mechanism built into the train control system as it appears, since the entire thing can be done from the cab.

FRA requires visual verification that a brake shoe moved at the other end, which is what requires the communication.

BTW, in India they use the cab intercom or even the conductors departure indicator bell to communicate things like brake tests too. CB radios are a relatively recent phenomenon there. Brake tests were carried out way before there were radios.

 

[train person]

Leeds (where I live) to Prague is, according to google maps around 1000 miles to drive.

By rail Leeds - London (domestic), London - Brussels (eurostar), Brussels - Cologne (ICE), Cologne - Prague (City Nightline). Total of 21 hours.

Chicago to Boston - also around 1000 miles by road. Lake Shore Limited (448). 22 hours 40 mins.

Hardly much slower overall.

exactly what I'm saying.

If you try to cost Leeds - Prague by train versus Amtrak for the connection you mention, you'll notice a huge difference in costs. Amtrak is much better value for money.

Add to that there isn't AFAIK any single webiste where you can book Leeds- Prague in one go whereas on Amtrak, again, it's easy.

Look, all I'm saying is that all this talk about Amtrak being massively inferior to European trains is comparing apples and oranges.

Amtrak is benhind on corridor services but definitely ahead on LD.

DB UK will get you a fare for that journey, no bother, most helpful and efficient outfit. In the scheme of things its actually a pretty easy trip to ticket...

LD on Amtrak is bound to be 'easier', can you guess why? The clue is in the amount of borders/railway systems you cross!

If you need another journey time comparison, why not try London to Nice? Leave London in the morning after breakfast, be in Nice in time for a rather mellow, leisurely and tasty dinner in Voyageur Nissart...

How far is that by rail?

1000 miles, near as damnit....

 

[train person]

In other places they appear to have some brake test mechanism built into the train control system as it appears, since the entire thing can be done from the cab.

A lot of push/pull trains have a brake test switch to dump the air from the remote end. Most European stock has brake on/off indicators on the coaching stock as well, red for 'on', green for 'off'

 

[AlanB]

In other places they appear to have some brake test mechanism built into the train control system as it appears, since the entire thing can be done from the cab.

A lot of push/pull trains have a brake test switch to dump the air from the remote end. Most European stock has brake on/off indicators on the coaching stock as well, red for 'on', green for 'off'

Yes, what you describe is essentially the type of brake test, if you will, that the subway does. When the motorman releases the pressure on the dead man's feature built into the controller, the air is dumped to the entire train. You can hear that happen when the train pulls in and the motorman driving it in, let's go of the controller to pack up their stuff and exit the train.

When the new motorman enters on the "new" headend, he charges the system back up and more or less performs a brake test in that fashion. However, he cannot be sure that the brakes actually did release in the cars behind him. And dpending on just how many had failed to release, he might or might not be able to move the train.

But the "traditional" brake test performed here in America where a conductor or other qualified employee stands at the rear of the train and requests that the brakes be applied, released, applied, and released again is not done on the subways.

 

[jis]

The other thing is, in articulated or permanently coupled consists, one can add additional electronics to complete a pretty foolproof brake test from the driving station, and potentially even use a small CCD camera to display the state of the brake on the extreme end trucks in the driver's cab on a continuous basis using the train bus. However, since we Americans tend to also to be anti-fixed consist sets, they get the inconveniences of not having such, and instead have half a dozen connectors and jumpers to tangle with to take consists apart or take locomotives apart from trains etc.

Can you imagine if jet planes had to do brake test railroad style before taking off? That is not to say that they do not do brake tests.

 

[George Harris]

Can you imagine if jet planes had to do brake test railroad style before taking off? That is not to say that they do not do brake tests.

In the days of prop planes, the standard was to taxi to the end fo the runway, stop and with the brakes on rev up the engines to maximum RPM and hold it long enough to be sure the engines were running stead, then let off the brakes and away you go.

You could not really call this a brake test. It was for the opposite purpose, to see if once you got started you could keep going until you were up in the air.

I have experienced something similar once on a 747 jet. This was a Taipei to San Francisco (or LA, I forget which) on a very hot day. We heard teh clunks and fet the shakes of things being unloaded, and an announcement that they might have to ask for volunteers to take a later flight to get teh plane down to maximum takeoff weight for the temperature. They did not. But what they did was exacly as described for the prop planes. We stopped at the very end fo the runway, he set the brakes and would up the engines until the plne was vibrating and creeping against the brakes. Then he released the brakes and we were off with a jerk. It was a verrrry long takeoff run. I got a closer look at the ground beyond the end of the runway than ever previously (or since) experienced.

 

[jis]

Can you imagine if jet planes had to do brake test railroad style before taking off? That is not to say that they do not do brake tests.

In the days of prop planes, the standard was to taxi to the end fo the runway, stop and with the brakes on rev up the engines to maximum RPM and hold it long enough to be sure the engines were running stead, then let off the brakes and away you go.

You could not really call this a brake test. It was for the opposite purpose, to see if once you got started you could keep going until you were up in the air.

I have experienced something similar once on a 747 jet. This was a Taipei to San Francisco (or LA, I forget which) on a very hot day. We heard teh clunks and fet the shakes of things being unloaded, and an announcement that they might have to ask for volunteers to take a later flight to get teh plane down to maximum takeoff weight for the temperature. They did not. But what they did was exacly as described for the prop planes. We stopped at the very end fo the runway, he set the brakes and would up the engines until the plne was vibrating and creeping against the brakes. Then he released the brakes and we were off with a jerk. It was a verrrry long takeoff run. I got a closer look at the ground beyond the end of the runway than ever previously (or since) experienced.

Yup. You can experience that for almost every takeoff from San Diego or Santa Ana, because of short runway, and in case of Santa Ana, because they have to gain enough altitude by the time the plane reaches the airfield boundary to be able to safely power back to comply with noise abatement procedures.

But on a plane a full brake test would involve wheel breaks, reverse thrust and spoilers, specially if the landing has to be a t a short runway airport with relatively large amount of fuel on board and on a rain slicked runway.

 

[darien-l]

And yet it is very rare that a train ever leaves NYP late because the boarding process wasn't finished in time. The train may leave late for a myriad of other reasons, but almost never in my experience which is considerable, because boarding wasn't completed. And I don't see many complaints from people being left behind either. If you got left behind, then you were late getting to the station.

I going to have to disagree with the above. NYP can be extemely confusing and disorienting to a first-time Amtrak traveler, and there are many, many reasons why people who arrive well ahead of time might miss their trains. In fact, my parents, on their first-train-trip-that-never-happened missed their Acela at NYP because they got into an extemely long ticket line thinking they had to get an airline-style boarding pass (which is not too far-fetched, actually -- there are a few Amtrak stations, such as DEN, that do require you to get a boarding pass in addition to your ticket). Contributing factors were general pandemoneum and confusion due to an earlier regional train running 3 hours late, and a complete lack of any assistance from Amtrak personnel.

 

[train person]

I going to have to disagree with the above. NYP can be extemely confusing and disorienting to a first-time Amtrak traveler, and there are many, many reasons why people who arrive well ahead of time might miss their trains. In fact, my parents, on their first-train-trip-that-never-happened missed their Acela at NYP because they got into an extemely long ticket line thinking they had to get an airline-style boarding pass (which is not too far-fetched, actually -- there are a few Amtrak stations, such as DEN, that do require you to get a boarding pass in addition to your ticket). Contributing factors were general pandemoneum and confusion due to an earlier regional train running 3 hours late, and a complete lack of any assistance from Amtrak personnel.

And there you have it....

Two extremes, first time Amtrak riders missing their train because they are thinking that getting on a train is as slow and timewasting as getting on a plane, stations that require boarding passes to get on a platform as well as a ticket for that train vs the foolish man from overseas that assumes that just because you can in 'Europe' get a ticket sent directly to your phone and wander up to your platform a few minutes before knowing that the train will leave from that platform, and you know where your car and seat number is, you can do something similar on Amtrak....

Funny old world....

 

[jis]

Just for the kicks, here is a comparison of a somewhat railroad savvy first generation American on a Boston to New York Acela run vs. a Paris Gare de l'Est to Mulhouse (via Strasbourg - TGV Est) TGV Lyria run...

Getting a ticket/ boarding pass

1. Arrival at station and getting ticket:

Acela - Show up at Boston South Station with printed sheet of reservation in hand, walk upto a machine and get a ticket printed out. Since getting a good seat is of concern and one knows that there will be a line forming to board, important to be at near the head of the line. So arrive at station good 40 mins ahead of departure.

There is one single Acela at the platform. Most likely that is the train. It's half of the platform is roped off, while a T train is boarding on the other track on that platform.

Lyria - Show up at the station with res number. Walk upto a machine and get a ticket and get it validated on the way to the general waiting area where people are milling around the various departure monitors. No hurry to get to the station since I know exactly which seat in which car I will have, window seat XX in car YY. Check the train composition chart to discover where the car will be located. So showed up at the station about 20 mins before departure, since I might have to negotiate the ticket machine in French. Turns out they all have an English mode now, so scratch that.

There are about 10 TGVs in various colors standing at 10 platforms (many of them two TGV consists paired as a single train - a total of 16 cars plus 4 power heads on those, and a couple of double decker TGVs too) so there is no way of telling which one is going to do this trip. Look for one in Lyria branding, but today a regular TGV is pinch hitting, so no luck there at guessing either.

2: Getting on the train:

Acela - It is 30 mins before departure and a few stragglers are starting to form a line at the rope on the platform. So off we go and secure our position in the line. There is an usher and two friends of hers standing at the rope chatting. Various people with various special dispensations are ushered across the rope to board at various times. The line of those without dispensations gets longer. An inevitable dispute erupts about whether someone who was in the Club Acela but is not in First Class has special dispensation or not. Oh well.... Anyhow eventually about 5 mins before departure the line is let through and everyone boards. The usher carefully inspects everyone's ticket before letting them through. The trains is relatively light so manage to get a good seat. It will fill up more at Back Bay and Rt. 128.

Lyria - Track is posted on departure board 15 mins before departure, a special annotation says that it is the 2nd train on the platform, so it is a hike past the first train which will run as a deadhead this day attached to the train in service. Anyway everyone walks to the train in no particular hurry, board and occupy their seats. A few confused tourists from America have trouble understanding that they cannot just sit anywhere they please, but that is taken care of quickly. Through this entire process there is no intervention of any kind from any railroad personnel, but they are around should someone need help. People continue to board till the last possible moment, until the "Attention Train Partee" or some such red light starts flashing on the platform. The train is completely full, not a single empty seat. Surprisingly there are people even in the retractable jump seats by the doors in the vestibule. I wonder if there are cheaper tickets to be had for those. And this is Sunday morning 8am!

3. Departure and initial part of the run:

Acela - Train departs on time moves along real slow for 5 mins and then stops at Back Bay. A good run at 100+mph follows for a few minutes to the second stop at Rt. 128. After that the train hits its stride and gets upto 150mph for several minutes and then slows down and stops at Providence.

Lyria - Train departs on time. It always amuses me that the buzzer that sounds before the doors close is exactly the same on the TGV as is on the Paris Metro and RER. The first stop is at Strasbourg 224 miles and 2 hours and 20 mins away, in the east of France. It zips along at 60mph or so through Pantin, and other inner suburb stations. In a few minutes it is upto 100mph, and then 125mph, and then it smoothly branches off onto the LGV and speed rapidly increases to 150, 180, 200mph, and stays there between 180 and 200mph until Baudrecourt, the end of LGV. After that it is on windy, twisty turny upgraded classic line, but the speed never drops below 80mph, but nor does it get above 125mph. Arrival in Strasbourg is a few minutes early. The LGV between Baudrecourt and Vandenheim (near Strasbourg) is in advanced stages of construction. We see some long viaducts being built for it on the way. It will be the the next LGV to be put in service in 2014, after the LGV Rhein-Rhone (Mulhouse - Belfort - Besancon - Dijon) which goes into service on 11 Dec 11.

I will post a more complete trip report over the weekend at an appropriate forum. This was just to give a comparison of the experience of the initial part of a trip.

 

[henryj]

Jis I had similar experiences traveling in Germany. It always amazed me that in the large stations, in addition to the electronic signs, there is a board posted on the platform showing the trains that stop there and each car on the train, exactly where they stop and which car is where. The platforms are divided into A, B and sometime C so multiple trains can be spotted at one time. There is no checking anything or waiting inside or anything like that. You just go up to your assigned track and platform, find your spot and the train stops right there. You get on quickly and off it goes. I not only rode the ICE's but local trains and NG steam trains as well. I bought my tickets here at my computer before I ever left Houston.

One other thing, the German trains run dead on time. If you are a minute late getting there you will miss your train. And the stops are very short. You have to board or detrain immediately. When you book connecting trains they only give you 15 minutes or less to make a connection. It was fun watching the locals if a train was just a few minutes late. They start pacing the platform and looking at their watches. Of course they can have glitches too, and it all goes to H quickly when that happens. I was on an ICE from Frankfurt to Nuremburg and it was running about 12 minutes late due to the snow storm. Everone on board was on the verge of panic when we pulled in to Nuremburg including me. I only had a 15 minute connection. Fortunately I met a nice lady on the train and she interpreted the announcements for me and told me which platform my connection was on. I literally ran down and up the stairs and just made my train by seconds. Lesson there is always uncheck the 'make all close connections' block when you reserve your ticket. lol.

There is one exception to all this, to board the channel tunnel trains you have to go through security and an airline like inspection before you can board and they do pre-check tickets. That was in London.

The other thing I found interesting is riding the trams in Dresden. At the main stops there is an electronic boad that tells you which route is arriving next and how many minutes until your next tram arrives. How do they know that?

 

[jis]

There is one exception to all this, to board the channel tunnel trains you have to go through security and an airline like inspection before you can board and they do pre-check tickets. That was in London.

Eurostar boarding also involves customs and immigration in addition to security check, since it involves crossing a border from a non_Schengen country to a Schengen country.

BTW crossing into Switzerland from France on the Lyria TGV does not involve border checks any more since Switzerland has the special relationship with Schengen countries that dispenses with the need for customs and immigration.

 

[AlanB]

There is one single Acela at the platform. Most likely that is the train. It's half of the platform is roped off, while a T train is boarding on the other track on that platform.

While I don't disagree with much of what you've said, to be fair I've boarded at South Station many times where there are two Acelas in the station at the same time. In fact, on 2 out of my last 3 trips to Boston, not only was there a second Acela in the station but it was on the same platform as the train that I was boarding.

Mind you in Boston I never deal with the nonsense that goes on there with the gates. I just get a redcap, best money ever spent.

 

[George Harris]

The car and seat number on ticket, or lack therof is one thing I cannot begin to understand. In the quite a few years we spent in Taiwan all but the every stop locals were reserved seats. As long as you got to the ticket windlw before train time youo could get a ticket that would have a car number and seat number on it. I am talking about the regular railroad, not the high speed railroad. It was not a simple sytem, either. There were four classes of trains counting the locals with four different fare schedules. If the train you wanted was full, you would usually be told what was available. Yes, the tickets were all Chinese characters, but once you learned which number meant what by its position, train, car, seat, language ignorance was not a barrier to getting where you needed to be. Why not here? Particularly for the Acela and Northeast Corridor it should be dead easy.

Oh yeah, a couple of peculiarities: If the train was full, they would normally continue selling tickets, but without a car and seat number, and you stood, or sat in an unclaimed seat until the person with a ticket for that seat got on. There would be a point beyond which no further tickets for the train would be sold. If you got on a train different from that you were ticketed for, you would probably end up standing on the heavier travel days. Otherwise no problem. If you were on a higher class train, then you paid the difference before leaving your arrival station.

Riding the California trains is generally quite straight forward except that for the San Joaquins, which will not be sold beyond seating capacity, do not see why they cannot give a car and seat number. The chaos that appears to occur at major stations elsewhere seems pointless.

 

[Ryan]

It's been tried here, and the Acela passengers damn near revolted from what I understand.

Different cultural expectations, Americans expect to get on a train and sit anywhere. "Can't do it" doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

[CHamilton]

Different cultural expectations, Americans expect to get on a train and sit anywhere. "Can't do it" doesn't have anything to do with it.

That's possibly true in the NEC, but the system used at SEA and PDX for the Cascades, where one gets in line and is given a sticker with a seat assignment, works reasonably well. It would be nice to get an assignment when making a reservation, but the Cascades system is better than nothing.

 

[train person]

It's been tried here, and the Acela passengers damn near revolted from what I understand.

Different cultural expectations, Americans expect to get on a train and sit anywhere. "Can't do it" doesn't have anything to do with it.

Really? Seem to be enough Amtrak trains where you are herded into a particular coach according to destination, and how does the airline industry get away with it with millions more passengers than Amtrak?

Do you expect to sit anywhere on a plane?

 

[train person]

.

One other thing, the German trains run dead on time.

Must have been a while since your trip then, the IC/ICE network has gone downhill rapidly in recent years, DB is getting a lot of flak about it, plus the rather unreliable air con that seems to have an allergy to warm weather

Switzerland is the last bastion of quality right time running in Europe, but they aren't trying to streamline their railway to sell it off, unlike their German chums.....

 

[jis]

There is one single Acela at the platform. Most likely that is the train. It's half of the platform is roped off, while a T train is boarding on the other track on that platform.

While I don't disagree with much of what you've said, to be fair I've boarded at South Station many times where there are two Acelas in the station at the same time. In fact, on 2 out of my last 3 trips to Boston, not only was there a second Acela in the station but it was on the same platform as the train that I was boarding.

Mind you in Boston I never deal with the nonsense that goes on there with the gates. I just get a redcap, best money ever spent.

I was not trying to be fair or unfair. I was just reporting exactly as it was in the last trip that I had on Acela, and the recent trip I had on TGV, with no intention of arriving at any general conclusions about details, based on sample size of exactly 1 in each case. If two other trips had been chosen, some details would have been different.

 

[jis]

Oh yeah, a couple of peculiarities: If the train was full, they would normally continue selling tickets, but without a car and seat number, and you stood, or sat in an unclaimed seat until the person with a ticket for that seat got on. There would be a point beyond which no further tickets for the train would be sold. If you got on a train different from that you were ticketed for, you would probably end up standing on the heavier travel days. Otherwise no problem. If you were on a higher class train, then you paid the difference before leaving your arrival station.

That might be what they do in France too, and that would explain all those jump seat riders on the TGVs.

Whenever I have ridden in France I have always booked me a specific desired seat over the internet, so I have never experienced basically walking upto a ticket machine and buying a ticket on the next departing train, which is something that you can do. Yes now that you mention it, I recall that someone told me that you can get tickets for a specific train but no seat assignment. I suppose one just gets to sit in any vacant seat until the assigned person for that seat comes to claim it. As a last resort there are always those jump seats by the door.

The Japanese have specific cars that require reservation and other cars which are open. I have been on an SRO Shinkansen (Hikari) from Osaka to Hiroshama in an open car, stuffed into a corner of the vestibule by the door all the way.

 

[guest]

Just for the kicks, here is a comparison of a somewhat railroad savvy first generation American on a Boston to New York Acela run vs. a Paris Gare d'le Est to Mulhouse (via Strasbourg - TGV Est) TGV Lyria run...

Getting a ticket/ boarding pass

1. Arrival at station and getting ticket:

Acela - Show up at Boston South Station with printed sheet of reservation in hand, walk upto a machine and get a ticket printed out. Since getting a good seat is of concern and one knows that there will be a line forming to board, important to be at near the head of the line. So arrive at station good 40 mins ahead of departure.

There is one single Acela at the platform. Most likely that is the train. It's half of the platform is roped off, while a T train is boarding on the other track on that platform.

Lyria - Show up at the station with res number. Walk upto a machine and get a ticket and get it validated on the way to the general waiting area where people are milling around the various departure monitors. No hurry to get to the station since I know exactly which seat in which car I will have, window seat XX in car YY. Check the train composition chart to discover where the car will be located. So showed up at the station about 20 mins before departure, since I might have to negotiate the ticket machine in French. Turns out they all have an English mode now, so scratch that.

There are about 10 TGVs in various colors standing at 10 platforms (many of them two TGV consists paired as a single train - a total of 16 cars plus 4 power heads on those, and a couple of double decker TGVs too) so there is no way of telling which one is going to do this trip. Look for one in Lyria branding, but today a regular TGV is pinch hitting, so no luck there at guessing either.

2: Getting on the train:

Acela - It is 30 mins before departure and a few stragglers are starting to form a line at the rope on the platform. So off we go and secure our position in the line. There is an usher and two friends of hers standing at the rope chatting. Various people with various special dispensations are ushered across the rope to board at various times. The line of those without dispensations gets longer. An inevitable dispute erupts about whether someone who was in the Club Acela but is not in First Class has special dispensation or not. Oh well.... Anyhow eventually about 5 mins before departure the line is let through and everyone boards. The usher carefully inspects everyone's ticket before letting them through. The trains is relatively light so manage to get a good seat. It will fill up more at Back Bay and Rt. 128.

Lyria - Track is posted on departure board 15 mins before departure, a special annotation says that it is the 2nd train on the platform, so it is a hike past the first train which will run as a deadhead this day attached to the train in service. Anyway everyone walks to the train in no particular hurry, board and occupy their seats. A few confused tourists from America have trouble understanding that they cannot just sit anywhere they please, but that is taken care of quickly. Through this entire process there is no intervention of any kind from any railroad personnel, but they are around should someone need help. People continue to board till the last possible moment, until the "Attention Train Partee" or some such red light starts flashing on the platform. The train is completely full, not a single empty seat. Surprisingly there are people even in the retractable jump seats by the doors in the vestibule. I wonder if there are cheaper tickets to be had for those. And this is Sunday morning 8am!

3. Departure and initial part of the run:

Acela - Train departs on time moves along real slow for 5 mins and then stops at Back Bay. A good run at 100+mph follows for a few minutes to the second stop at Rt. 128. After that the train hits its stride and gets upto 150mph for several minutes and then slows down and stops at Providence.

Lyria - Train departs on time. It always amuses me that the buzzer that sounds before the doors close is exactly the same on the TGV as is on the Paris Metro and RER. The first stop is at Strasbourg 224 miles and 2 hours and 20 mins away, in the east of France. It zips along at 60mph or so through Pantin, and other inner suburb stations. In a few minutes it is upto 100mph, and then 125mph, and then it smoothly branches off onto the LGV and speed rapidly increases to 150, 180, 200mph, and stays there between 180 and 200mph until Baudrecourt, the end of LGV. After that it is on windy, twisty turny upgraded classic line, but the speed never drops below 80mph, but nor does it get above 125mph. Arrival in Strasbourg is a few minutes early. The LGV between Baudrecourt and Vandenheim (near Strasbourg) is in advanced stages of construction. We see some long viaducts being built for it on the way. It will be the the next LGV to be put in service in 2014, after the LGV Rhein-Rhone (Mulhouse - Belfort - Besancon - Dijon) which goes into service on 11 Dec 11.

I will post a more complete trip report over the weekend at an appropriate forum. This was just to give a comparison of the experience of the initial part of a trip.

As to point 3, this is EXACTLY where Acela (and, I fear, California's long-delayed HSR system) get it ALL wrong. There should be nonstops running at or near top speed between NYP-WAS, BOS-NYP, PRV-NYP, BAL-NYP, etc. To have "high-speed" equipment speeding up and then slowing down every 20 minutes is a total waste of the technology. An hour is about the standard minimum time between stations on high speed lines in much of the world.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Actually I think even without getting Europe style support there are several things that Amtrak could easily pick up from general European passenger train practices that would on the whole make the passenger's experience a little bit better - for example getting away from the ridiculous practice of lining everyone up and checking their tickets before letting them go to the train, always at the same station where the folks boarding a commuter train at the next track just walk tom the platform and onto the train unchecked.

I have never seen that done in New York Penn station.

 

[Ryan]

As to point 3, this is EXACTLY where Acela (and, I fear, California's long-delayed HSR system) get it ALL wrong. There should be nonstops running at or near top speed between NYP-WAS, BOS-NYP, PRV-NYP, BAL-NYP, etc. To have "high-speed" equipment speeding up and then slowing down every 20 minutes is a total waste of the technology. An hour is about the standard minimum time between stations on high speed lines in much of the world.

This has been tried as well, and ridership was awful.