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If the post was that harmful to the viewing public, and an obvious troll, why was it commented on by a moderator, before being deleted?
As Alan previously mentioned, not all moderators think alike. Apparently one moderator did not originally think the post was harmful and from an obvious troll. He/she may have re-thought the decision or another moderator may have had a different opinion. Final decisions are not made by one moderator alone.

The guest post was "hidden" waiting review of a majority of moderators/administrators.
I have seen several posts about people pre mixing coctails or beer to drink in coach which is also a violation of the rules, but apparently one that is acceptable to break. It is an amtrak rule and breaking it should have the same consequences. Also a number of people think it is acceptable to rotate family members through a sleeper, and greasing the palms of the SCA to allow this to go on.

These are all breaking the rules, yet seem to be acceptable by forum majority.
 
I have seen several posts about people pre mixing coctails or beer to drink in coach which is also a violation of the rules, but apparently one that is acceptable to break. It is an amtrak rule and breaking it should have the same consequences. Also a number of people think it is acceptable to rotate family members through a sleeper, and greasing the palms of the SCA to allow this to go on.
These are all breaking the rules, yet seem to be acceptable by forum majority.
Just because some people break certain rules and get away with it doesn't mean it's okay to do so. How could all of the rules possibly be enforced? Rules Police stationed in each car?

jb
 
I have seen several posts about people pre mixing coctails or beer to drink in coach which is also a violation of the rules, but apparently one that is acceptable to break. It is an amtrak rule and breaking it should have the same consequences. Also a number of people think it is acceptable to rotate family members through a sleeper, and greasing the palms of the SCA to allow this to go on.
These are all breaking the rules, yet seem to be acceptable by forum majority.
Just because some people break certain rules and get away with it doesn't mean it's okay to do so. How could all of the rules possibly be enforced? Rules Police stationed in each car?

jb
My comment was in regards to the forum. If the post was removed because it contained rule breaking propaganda, why is that same litmus test not given to the other rules that are by popular opinion, on the forums, not only acceptable to break, but encouraged.
 
I did not see the offending post, but from the posts on this thread, it sounds like it was more to do with the attitude of the poster - "I am above the law/rules" that was "offensive". Plus this type of post could lead innocent readers of this forum to break the rules and get thrown off the train at a crossroad. Many here who post their rule breaks also include "you may get caught and suffer the consequences".
 
That's actually a hotly contested topic when it comes up.

There's a huge difference between a discussion and one person dragging over a months-old thread to say "I'm going to break the rules".
 
I did not see the offending post, but from the posts on this thread, it sounds like it was more to do with the attitude of the poster - "I am above the law/rules" that was "offensive". Plus this type of post could lead innocent readers of this forum to break the rules and get thrown off the train at a crossroad. Many here who post their rule breaks also include "you may get caught and suffer the consequences".
True. I was honestly just surprised that the response was removed, because it did give that warning. I thought the response was well written and sorry to see it dissapear, but it would have to be removed, in order to remove the response.

I read the offending post, and I agree, it might encourage viewers to take that same attitude, or put new ideas in their head.
 
That's actually a hotly contested topic when it comes up.

There's a huge difference between a discussion and one person dragging over a months-old thread to say "I'm going to break the rules".
It did reek of either a current member signing in anonymously to troll, or something similar. They seemed to be a frequent traveler. Forgive the pun. :giggle: ( Definition of REEK. 1. chiefly dialect: smoke. 2: vapor, fog. 3: a strong or disagreeable fume or odor .)
 
The problem with PMing a moderator is that the issue may be an issue that others also have but they will never know if the complainant keeps it private.
While I do agree to some extent; it can also go the other way. You can get some who just pile on, even though it was never really a problem for them until someone else decided that it was a problem.

And since airing in public can be done anonymously but airing in private cannot, those that are unwilling to express themselves honestly without leaving their name cannot do it via PM.
Actually that's a luxury that it not available on most forums. We're one of the few that strives quite hard to keep guest posting available; despite the best efforts of the spammers and a few rouge posters. And while I hope that it never does go away; as long as there are determined spammers it could still disappear one day sadly. :(

Besides, posting as a guest doesn't totally conceal your identity.

And as a moderator, no matter how often you state your fairness, there is no way you are going to forget that a person stated that you were part of (or all of) a problem instead of part of the solution. It's human nature. How many times have you read about people who bring up issues privately and they never get resolved? Then when they are publicized, the issue is fixed but sometime after those that complained (even privately) somehow lose their job due to some generic excuse.
While all you say here is true, things are very different when it is your job & livelihood at stake. Since no one on staff makes a dime, including me, for their efforts it changes things quite a bit. At worst, a staff member leaves or is asked to leave, and there might be some hurt feelings or bruised egos. But no one's financial well being is hanging in the balance.

As for resolving the issue, the issue will always be resolved; it just may not be resolved to the person making the complaint's satisfaction and that won't change whether the complaint was made publicly or privately. In fact, in a borderline situation, a public complaint is far more likely to see me deciding to the disfavor of the complainant.

I don't think that moderators have their authority undermined by open complaints. It gives them a chance to openly show they are willing to address issues that can fester. That enhances authority. Do you think that your having to answer issues publicly above has hurt your authority?
We will have to agree to disagree on this point; sorry! But I see it as publicly criticizing the staff member in public and that can indeed lead to undermining their authority. Furthermore, I believe that it can encourage further complaints if people see their successes.

As for my authority; since there is no place higher to appeal, no, it doesn't hurt me. Other staff members can try to convince me that I was wrong and get me to change my mind; but again, no one else can overrule me. And that changes things.

A separate forum for addressing internal issues publicly.
Well, if one still chooses to go public, there is already a forum for issues of any type with the forum. Which is where frankly I should move this topic, but for now I've left here in the forum where most people visit so that it gets maximum exposure.

Ability to anonymously PM moderators.
Sadly, not an option. The forum software simply doesn't support that possibility. In fact, guests have no access to the PM system at all.

An assurance that if someone has an issue with one moderator that they can PM another moderator and be assured that their name would not be revealed.
Already happens. I don't always tell the staff member who contacted me; especially if they request that I don't. I would hope that the rest of the staff would also honor that request, and in fact this post can serve as direction that they should do their level best to honor any such request. Of course, depending on the issue and nature of the complaint, it may well be possible for them to guess who complained.

And if you feel that you are being unfairly targeted after making a complaint, or for any other reason, again you are always welcome to contact me.
 
I did not see the offending post, but from the posts on this thread, it sounds like it was more to do with the attitude of the poster - "I am above the law/rules" that was "offensive". Plus this type of post could lead innocent readers of this forum to break the rules and get thrown off the train at a crossroad. Many here who post their rule breaks also include "you may get caught and suffer the consequences".
Your assessment is right on from where I sit. I did see the post by "Guest Nanny State" and it was made purely to incite back and forth arguments over what is a rather polarizing topic. It had no nutritional value whatsoever. My reaction when I read it was to make some popcorn and watch the sparks fly which is likely what the guest poster was looking for.
 
I agree with the locked threads when it becomes a bit of piling on one poster. In a couple recent cases, I was a bit disappointed though because the original poster was so entertaining. There's some funny posts/threads on here at times but a couple of the locked threads were unintentionally very funny.

Dan
 
I may be wrong, but as I understand it, what Penny said is how any ad on the Internet works. Just by clicking an ad earns that site income.
Whoops. If that's the case, then I'll start clicking like crazy. ;)
Note that with pay-per-click online ads, there are behind-the-scenes algorithms checking for "click fraud," because the advertisers obviously don't want to have to pay for clicks that aren't "serious." Worst-case scenario would be that AU gets "penalized" if too many fraudulent clicks are originating here (the penalty would likely be a lower payment rate from the ad provider).

So don't go too crazy. :D
 
I may be wrong, but as I understand it, what Penny said is how any ad on the Internet works. Just by clicking an ad earns that site income.
Whoops. If that's the case, then I'll start clicking like crazy. ;)
Note that with pay-per-click online ads, there are behind-the-scenes algorithms checking for "click fraud," because the advertisers obviously don't want to have to pay for clicks that aren't "serious." Worst-case scenario would be that AU gets "penalized" if too many fraudulent clicks are originating here (the penalty would likely be a lower payment rate from the ad provider).

So don't go too crazy. :D
Damn, you're too late. I've already bought a Mercedes, a donkey, a fez and 1000 rolls of toilet paper (for the donkey). AU rates are goin up baby!!!!
 
Ha. I've only clicked a couple, and they were truly something I was interested in. (Vegas, baby.)
 
This is a good question to pose to the admins here. With Anthony's move to AGR Insider and the subsequent sale of this site, the insular group of admins/managers/moderators can and should be subject to increased scrutiny. Amtrak Unlimited is no longer Anthony's benevolent pet project; now its primary purpose for existence is to make money for its owners off of those netizens who visit it. Nothing wrong with that, but every ounce of good (and just as often bad or incorrect) advice proffered here is being trafficked for the profits of AU's new owner.

With the change in ownership at AU should probably come a housecleaning of the moderation staff. Long past due to break up its clubbiness and insularity. Best practices are frequently lost on them, while years-long-unfunny missives about Penthouses are allowed to perpetuate at the expense of real, useful information about traveling on Amtrak. And whenever a moderator, especially its most outspoken ones, gets painted into a corner, they abuse their deletion privileges to excise all posts that might otherwise embarrass or humiliate them. The net result becomes moderation without accountability. A race to the bottom in other words.

Welcome to the current Amtrak Unlimited.
I assume the comment of "missives about Penthouses are allowed to perpetuate at the expense of real, useful information about traveling on Amtrak" is aimed at The Traveler. Although I do not know Traveler personally, from day 1 on this forum, he has responded to my pm's about my questions about AGR travel, usually within a few hours. His tips and knowledge have saved me thousands of dollars and maximized my AGR trips to extreme levels. If your post is indeed referring to The Traveler, he has given me the most real, useful information about traveling on amtrak than I would have ever learned just reading the board. OP seems like a very angry person whose anger stems from something much deeper than the AU forum or maybe just envious of members who are in the know........just my 2 cents
 
Rather than dealing just in cold facts (or cold misinformation!) I find it nice to have an informal feel to the website. We are humans, lets keep the site warm and welcoming. A little humo(u)r and banter makes for a more friendly site... although I fear you guys just don't often get my "British" humour!

Ed :cool:
 
At the risk of perpetuating "banter", I would like to say that one of the things that drew me to AU is the friendly conversations among its members and the genuine desire to help me learn about travel on Amtrak. Our first trip was certainly made easier by information I received from AlanB, traveler, and many others who lead us through the maze of a long distance trip to Oregon.

So, as others have already said. "If you do not like our site, move on to somewhere else where you will be happier". We at AU always want happiness for everyone!! :p
 
On the one hand bringing your own microwave with you is borderline nutty. On the other hand forty years after creation Amtrak still provides no method for heating or refrigerating your own food, something that thousands of hotels provide at no extra charge. If Amtrak is like a hotel on wheels, which is something I've read here a thousand times, then why can't Amtrak provide any of these basic features? Are we really making people safer by forcing them to use a watery variable temperature ice chest over a dry constant temperature refrigerator? I'm not sure we've correctly identified where the nuttiness really lies here.
 
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Can you imagine the howl from rep Mica if Amtrak tried to buy microwaves and fridges? And where could you find the space for them in a roomette?
 
On the one hand bringing your own microwave with you is borderline nutty. On the other hand forty years after creation Amtrak still provides no method for heating or refrigerating your own food, something that thousands of hotels provide at no extra charge. If Amtrak is like a hotel on wheels, which is something I've read here a thousand times, then why can't Amtrak provide any of these basic features? Are we really making people safer by forcing them to use a watery variable temperature ice chest over a dry constant temperature refrigerator? I'm not sure we've correctly identified where the nuttiness really lies here.
I was making a veiled reference to the responses to that thread which bordered on hysterical, not on the lack of progress with sleeper amenities, with which I agree.

Further taking this thread adrift, look to the improvements in truck sleepers from the then new superliner era to today. Truck sleepers, which approximate the size of a roomette, now can accommodate a microwave, refrigerator, satellite TV and provide the power to run them. Regarding Amtrak, the technology is there, the desire may not, the money certainly not, to affect these improvements.
 
Can you imagine the howl from rep Mica if Amtrak tried to buy microwaves and fridges? And where could you find the space for them in a roomette?
Right. Expecting microwaves and fridges isn't borderline nutty, it's just plain nutty. Mica or no Mica.
 
Providing microwaves and fridges for people bringing their own food on board is not a very good business decision, selling them food on board makes more sense. Even Rep. Mica would agree with that. (Of course the food sales would have to be profitable).
 
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