Viewliner II Uses

[Blackwolf]

Horizon cars on the single level LD trains would be a pretty good use of them.

Perfect time to give the Horizon's their "Mid-Life" overhaul. Remodel the interiors, remove the current interior lighting and replace with more subdued white/blue LED's, replace restrooms with the new RailPlan modules used on the California Comets, add long-distance seating and add window curtains. On the outside, repaint and restripe with the "new" Amtrak America Phase IIIb livery. Alongside the new Viewliners, Horizons that have been overhauled would be a chance for Amtrak to have a consistent single-level LD product and cleaner-looking train lines.

Now only if we had a funding source for the overhauls and someone at Amtrak with the power to make something happen think the same things.

 

[AlanB]

I suspect that there will be conversion of 5 to 10 Horizons back to LD configuration to make all this possible with adequate margins.

Thinking about "reuse of Horizons"...

Problems raised:

(1) The Horizons have manual doors, which is rumored to be undesirable on the NEC.

(2) The Horizons are supposedly not great in continuous winter conditions, and Amtrak wants to move them somewhere warmer -- which makes them unsuitable for the LSL.

Thinking about it, #1 is probably less important for long-distance train use, because dwell time on the long-distance trains on the NEC is apparently determined by baggage handling, and that probably gives adequate time to handle the manual doors.

At least in the scenario put forth by Jis, it doesn't matter that the Horizons have manual doors. The Amfleet II's also have manual doors, so the Horizons will fit right into the mix without trouble.

There is room for 8 modular units in the bag end of the car; 7 of which will be shelving and the 8th is the bike unit.

7 shelving units, 2 shelves each. This will do for lower-demand periods, but isn't nearly enough for peak baggage loads. Extra baggage cars *will* be attached during peak. Well, at least that explains why so many baggage cars were ordered.

With the reduced amount of luggage, coupled with the reduced amount of packages, it's unlikely to be a problem for most trains. The volume of luggage today is much lower than it was 10 years ago. Between the floor space and the luggage racks, the bag/dorms will be able to handle the load at all times except for maybe a peak like Thanksgiving.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

As a first step, even if nothing gets extended, it is possible that

two of the day medium-distance trains, Palmetto and one other,

could get a Diner used as a Cafe/lounge.

...

In addition the Pennsylvanian through running to Chicago could

still happen using Amfleet II Dinette to cover the portion between

New York and Pittsburgh, as planned in the PIP.

Considering the sheer mass of endpoint traffic, I could see the Adirondack

getting some sort of "enhanced cafe" that would have good CR. You've got

so many passengers taking an 11-hour trip (that's not likely to go below

9 hours in the foreseeable future, even with the border stop getting moved

to Gare Central) that there's room to sell food there. The Vermonter would be

the other obvious choice, were it to be extended to Montreal: Between the

mass of business the train apparently does south of SPG and the likely

through business that a single-seat ride from WAS (and a more pleasant

connection option from BOS than is currently doable on the Adirondack)

seems inclined to attract, it's definitely a candidate as well.

If the Adirondack is a candidate, isn't the 12- to 14-hour Maple Leaf

just as likely a candidate?

But why use a diner for a cafe/lounge car? Why not order a few

cafe/lounge cars from CAF? If the cars are as modular as they say,

a new Viewliner cafe/lounge should not cost too much to put together.

Hey, I'm still wishing tAmtrak could order 5 or 6 dome cars of some

kind, any kind. LOL. They are more effective marketing than paying for

hours of ads on TV.

 

[Anderson]

As a first step, even if nothing gets extended, it is possible that

two of the day medium-distance trains, Palmetto and one other,

could get a Diner used as a Cafe/lounge.

...

In addition the Pennsylvanian through running to Chicago could

still happen using Amfleet II Dinette to cover the portion between

New York and Pittsburgh, as planned in the PIP.

Considering the sheer mass of endpoint traffic, I could see the Adirondack

getting some sort of "enhanced cafe" that would have good CR. You've got

so many passengers taking an 11-hour trip (that's not likely to go below

9 hours in the foreseeable future, even with the border stop getting moved

to Gare Central) that there's room to sell food there. The Vermonter would be

the other obvious choice, were it to be extended to Montreal: Between the

mass of business the train apparently does south of SPG and the likely

through business that a single-seat ride from WAS (and a more pleasant

connection option from BOS than is currently doable on the Adirondack)

seems inclined to attract, it's definitely a candidate as well.

If the Adirondack is a candidate, isn't the 12- to 14-hour Maple Leaf

just as likely a candidate?

But why use a diner for a cafe/lounge car? Why not order a few

cafe/lounge cars from CAF? If the cars are as modular as they say,

a new Viewliner cafe/lounge should not cost too much to put together.

Hey, I'm still wishing tAmtrak could order 5 or 6 dome cars of some

kind, any kind. LOL. They are more effective marketing than paying for

hours of ads on TV.

(1) The Maple Leaf does not have the amount of endpoint business that the Adirondack has, and it is further complicated by the Amtrak/VIA handoff at the border.

(2) You use it because it's available. Ideally, a diner would go on an overnight LD train. If that's not an option, better to toss it in with a case like this (which seems open to beefing up OBS and promoting the service a bit more) than let the equipment sit idle.

 

[fulham]

How many of the Eastern single-level long-distance day trains use Amfleet II's?

I know all the overnighters do, but what about the long-distance day trains....i.e. Palmetto, Pennsylvanian, Maple Leaf, Adirondack, Carolinian, 66/67 etc?

How many tend to be on each train?

Thanks.

 

[afigg]

How many of the Eastern single-level long-distance day trains use Amfleet II's?

I know all the overnighters do, but what about the long-distance day trains....i.e. Palmetto, Pennsylvanian, Maple Leaf, Adirondack, Carolinian, 66/67 etc?

How many tend to be on each train?

Amtrak has 25 Amfleet II diner light-lounge cars. Which matches the number of baggage-dorm and new diner cars ordered. The consist info is available in the FAQ & First Time Rider Info subforum in the Line Numbers/Consist Listings sticky thread. According to those listings, only the overnight single level LD trains are normally equipped with Amfleet II diner-lounge cars while the Palmetto & Pennsylvanian have Amfleet I cafe cars.

It is too bad that they did not stretch the Viewliner II order to add 25 cafe-lounge cars to replace the 25 Amfleet II food cars. Then they would have matching Viewliner sets of a baggage-dorm, N sleepers, full service diner car, cafe-lounge car with large windows followed by Amfleet coach cars. Then when the funding can be found, order 140 to 150 Viewliner LD coach cars to replace the 120 Amfleet II coach cars. The Amfleet II food cars could go to the medium range eastern trains until a big order of single level cars is funded and procured.

But Amtrak's annual federal capital grant funding levels have been cut since the 130 car CAF order was placed, so the 130 car CAF order may be it for the LD trains for the next several years.

 

[battalion51]

I believe it was stated somewhere in another thread that the Adirondack and maybe the Maple Leaf also use Amfleet II coaches. Alan? I know the Carolinian and 66/67 are all Amfleet I trains.

 

[AlanB]

I believe it was stated somewhere in another thread that the Adirondack and maybe the Maple Leaf also use Amfleet II coaches. Alan? I know the Carolinian and 66/67 are all Amfleet I trains.

Yes, the Leaf, Adirondack, and the Pennsy all have at least some Amfleet II coaches in their consists.

 

[Nathanael]

But Amtrak's annual federal capital grant funding levels have been cut since the 130 car CAF order was placed, so the 130 car CAF order may be it for the LD trains for the next several years.

I wouldn't be so sure; remember that the CAF order came out of operating funds. If Amtrak's operating results keep improving (no more Hurricane Sandys, please) it may be considered advisable to use excess operating funds to ease the car shortage by making add-on orders to the CAF order or the state-run bilevel order. I wouldn't expect a lot, but the way all the trains have been pushing up against equipment availability limits, it might be a more-immediately-profitable use of money than anything else, and keep the production lines going a bit longer.

 

[jis]

While I agree in principle, one must remember that the existence of excess operating funds depends on the existence of adequate operating subsidies. No one knows what will happen to those once the Pandora's box of budget is opened in the current political atmosphere. In some sense a continuing series of CRs with no change in funding levels works to Amtrak's advantage in that sense for the moment.

 

[R30A]

Adirondack has 2 Amfleet 2s per consist, Palmetto, Maple Leaf and Pennsylvanian have 3(Sometimes 4) in my experience.

 

[jis]

Pennsylvanian and Palmetto actually share consists so they would more likely have the same numbers. Maple Leaf and Adirondack are Empire pool equipment and a different story altogether, even more so after the 209 separation of Empire Service.

 

[SubwayNut]

Those two trains though have their own distinct consists:

The Maple Leaf is like normal Empire Service consists except the some of the normal Amfleet I Coaches are Amfleet IIs with the combined Amfleet I Cafe/Club in the rear of the train.

The Adirondack has its own distinctive consists that are normally Locomotive (P40/P42 north of ALB, P32AC-DM south): 3 Amfleet I Coaches (on my last trip a few weeks ago the front Amlfeet-I coach in both directions only ran ALB-NYP, a first for me and was removed/added during the locomotive change sending just 2-1-2 north to Montreal) an Amfleet I Lounge with the Northeast Regional Branding slapped on the side of it and 2 rear Amfleet II Coaches, generally the rear Amfleet IIs are through NYP to MTL passengers the front 2/3 for anyone getting on or off at an intermediate stop.