The Myth of "Roads pay for themselves"

[Ryan]

I ran across this study from 2011 tonight.

http://cdn.publicinterestnetwork.org/assets/28b773b9f18cdb23da3e48a8d7884854/Do-Roads-Pay-for-Themselves_-wUS.pdf

Thoughts? Flaws?

Highways dont pay for themselves.

• Since 1947, the amount of money spent on highways, roads and streets has exceeded the amount raised through gasoline taxes and other so-called user fees by $600 billion (2005 dollars), representing a massive transfer of general government funds to highways.
• Highways pay for themselves less today than ever. Currently, highway user fees pay only about half the cost of building and maintaining the nations network of highways, roads and streets.
• These figures fail to include the many costs imposed by highway construction on non-users of the system, including damage to the environment and public health and en- couragement of sprawling forms of development that impose major costs on the environment and government finances.
• New or expanded highways are even less likely to pay for themselves in the future as changing demographic conditions and consumer choices limit the growth in vehicle travel and fuel use that would otherwise provide the revenue for a major program of highway expansion.

 

[the_traveler]

That can't be true. Roads are free - taxpayers only subsidize Amtrak!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

More tolls please! Get people out of their cars!

 

[railiner]

I can't cite sources offhand, but there are some strong exceptions to this....case in point, New York MTA Bridges and Tunnels. The exorbitant tolls charged on their facilites were supposed to pay off the bonds that financed their construction, and then be eliminated, or at least only cover their operating cost. The amount collected thru the years could have paid for several new crossings, but are instead used to help finance bus and train operations, that don't begin to cover what their subsidized fares take in. So motorists are paying for transit user's rides.

Now, don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that is all bad, as having people use mass transit is beneficial to motorist's as well....helping reduce traffic to some degree. Just like people without children paying school taxes....that is just another obligation that is necessary in a society to benefit all.

The arguments come from various special interests that argue over the distribution of government resources, for what each see's as an equitable redistribution of the wealth....

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The MTA model should be the model for the whole country... Except the tolls should be extended to all Long Island and Metro North county highways. This should allow for better service and expanded routes for the metro area.

New Yorks public transit should be the minimum requirement for any city of more than 100k people.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

New Yorks public transit should be the minimum requirement for any city of more than 100k people.

Overkill

I would say over 5 million people.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Ridiculous. A place with That many people should have quadruple what New York has.

 

[Paulus]

Gasoline taxes really don't have a problem with paying for maintenance, it's the construction cost that is the issue (most newly built toll roads lose money because of this as well). And of course if you don't raise the taxes, you'll get an issue creeping up over time.

 

[jerichowhiskey]

I can't cite sources offhand, but there are some strong exceptions to this....case in point, New York MTA Bridges and Tunnels. The exorbitant tolls charged on their facilites were supposed to pay off the bonds that financed their construction, and then be eliminated, or at least only cover their operating cost. The amount collected thru the years could have paid for several new crossings, but are instead used to help finance bus and train operations, that don't begin to cover what their subsidized fares take in. So motorists are paying for transit user's rides.

Now, don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that is all bad, as having people use mass transit is beneficial to motorist's as well....helping reduce traffic to some degree. Just like people without children paying school taxes....that is just another obligation that is necessary in a society to benefit all.

The arguments come from various special interests that argue over the distribution of government resources, for what each see's as an equitable redistribution of the wealth....

MTA's funding however is routinely skimmed away for other things in NY's budget. In the end, it's an accounting issue.

 

[jis]

Then again the highway trust fund also pays for things other than highways - like transit. FTA gets money from that fund. All in all it is all as clear as mud.

 

[benjibear]

With the invention of the EZ Pass, I propose all interstate highways become toll roads.

 

[railiner]

With the invention of the EZ Pass, I propose all interstate highways become toll roads.

I'll support that.....that is.........when all public high schools become tuition schools.......

 

[Ryan]

And you've got to pay firefighters on the spot before they extinguish your house fire.

 

[NW cannonball]

And you've got to pay firefighters on the spot before they extinguish your house fire.

Of course! THEN they file a lien against all your neighbors for saving them from the fire spreading!

I've given up hope for the dogmatic anti-government cases, bur for sure they can extinguish their own house fires. Smiley smiley.

 

[jis]

Anti-government bravado lasts only until the next calamity that destroys ones home and livelihood.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Bob Dylan]

Anti-government bravado lasts only until the next calamity that destroys ones home and livelihood.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

True this!

Signs @_T-Party Rally:

"Tell the Government to take their hands off my Social Security and Medicare!"