Tennessee Zephyr

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USrail21

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"Man, there is no Amtrak in Nashville or Knoxville!" This is what you might say if you use Amtrak and you live in either of these cities. But how about Tennessee Zephyr. A route from New York City to Memphis. Stations are New York City, Newark, Trenton, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore, Washington DC, Alexandria, Manassas, Strasburg, Harrisonburg, Roanoke, Abingdon, Bristol, Kingdport (shuttle bus to Johnson City), Morristown, Knoxville, Harriman, Nashville, Franklin, Columbia, Jackson, then Memphis. Major stations other than between NYC and DC and Memphis is Knoxville L&N Station and Nashville Union Station. There is also a union station in Harrisonburg.
 
Pay for it and I'm sure Amtrak will be glad to run your new service.

The same can be said in response to almost all of your other threads.
 
I do however, think Nashville to Memphis service would be a potentially good idea. With stops like Murfreesboroon the way.

But only if Amtrak has spare money to spend, which they dont.
 
The Tennessean ran Washington, Lynchburg, Roanoke, briston, Johnson city, Morristown, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Huntsvville AL, sheffield AL, Memphis. It took right at 24 hours, and that was the premier fast train on the route. Add another 4 for New York to Wahington. At one time, say up to the early 1950's, if that late, there was on overnight sleeper on the Tennessee Central, Knoxville, Harriman, Crossville, Cookeville, Lebanon, Nashville. Leanon to nashville is now the route of teh only commuter line into Nashville. They spent $30 million on the track to get it up to 60 mph for most of the distance, a speed limit that had never been achieved in the past. by the way, that $30 milion prbably represented more work for the dollar than any other publically funded railroad upgrade within the last 50 years.

The railroad is gone between Harriman and Cookeville and betweeen Bruceton adn Memphis. Columbia - Jackson never was, and is not on any sort of reasonable route between Nashville and Jackson, whethere road or rail.

Here again, we are looking at a completely new line in order to achieve any meaningful speed, as much of the line is in Appalachia and is anything but straight.

While we are dreaming, let's rebuild Saluda grade straighter adn flatter. In a lot of ways, both freight and passenger this makes reasonable sense operationally and for passenger access to Asheville, but teh economics are not there, as it would be a very costly proposition to do.
 
"Man, there is no Amtrak in Nashville or Knoxville!" This is what you might say if you use Amtrak and you live in either of these cities.
If I live in either of these cities, what is the likelihood that I also use Amtrak frequently enough to be that concerned?
 
Pay for it and I'm sure Amtrak will be glad to run your new service.

The same can be said in response to almost all of your other threads.
This proposal is pretty reasonable compared to most of his other posts, so long as it is not a 150 mph electrified line. Virginia has long term plans with the TransDominion Express for possibly extending service to Bristol VA over the NS tracks. I have seen a report that Amtrak has at least talked to NS about extending trains well into TN to Chattanooga, but where an LD train might go from there, don't know. Would need a large enough city to serve as a anchor and have space for service & storage. But unless Tennessee is interested in restoring train service and willing to contribute some state funds, is not going to happen.
 
The Tennessean ran Washington, Lynchburg, Roanoke, briston, Johnson city, Morristown, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Huntsvville AL, sheffield AL, Memphis. It took right at 24 hours, and that was the premier fast train on the route. Add another 4 for New York to Wahington. At one time, say up to the early 1950's, if that late, there was on overnight sleeper on the Tennessee Central, Knoxville, Harriman, Crossville, Cookeville, Lebanon, Nashville. Leanon to nashville is now the route of teh only commuter line into Nashville. They spent $30 million on the track to get it up to 60 mph for most of the distance, a speed limit that had never been achieved in the past. by the way, that $30 milion prbably represented more work for the dollar than any other publically funded railroad upgrade within the last 50 years.

The railroad is gone between Harriman and Cookeville and betweeen Bruceton adn Memphis. Columbia - Jackson never was, and is not on any sort of reasonable route between Nashville and Jackson, whethere road or rail.

Here again, we are looking at a completely new line in order to achieve any meaningful speed, as much of the line is in Appalachia and is anything but straight.

While we are dreaming, let's rebuild Saluda grade straighter adn flatter. In a lot of ways, both freight and passenger this makes reasonable sense operationally and for passenger access to Asheville, but teh economics are not there, as it would be a very costly proposition to do.
In addition to the info George gave, there was also a through sleeper on the Tennessean from Bristol to Nashville which was switched off the Tennessean in Chattanooga to another train from CHattanooga to Tullahoma, Murfreesboro and Nashville.

Also the Tennessean at one time had a set out sleeper from Chattanooga to Memphis.

There was also a through sleeper from New York to Nashville transferred between the PRR and the L&N at Cincinnati. This car ran New York, Philly,Harrisburg,pittsburgh Columbus, Cincinnati, Louisville and Nashville.
 
And Bill, don't forget the New York - Memphis sleeper on the same route as the Nashville sleeper, but at Bowling Green, KY went to Memphis via L&N's Memphis Branch on a section of the Pan American.
 
You have every right to be shocked that there's no Amtrak service to Nashville, Knoxville, or Chattanooga. All three are large cities with mega tourism, several colleges, and growing populations. There has been no lack of proposals whatsoever for rail service, just very little action.

in 1994 there was an honest effort to restore the Floridian from Chicago to Florida. However, Tennessee's congressional delegation could not get their act together. The East Tennessee reps would not support a new route that did not serve their cities, and the Middle Tennessee reps would not support it if it skipped their cities. So, it did not happen. (You have to keep in mind that Tennessee has three political divisions: West, Middle, and East, and they don't always get along!)

In 1999 we fought hard to get the Kentucky Cardinal extended from Louisville to Nashville. Amtrak ran a test train. But, Tennessee's state legislature never gave it a second thought. Then Amtrak canceled the service because they were getting out of the mail and freight business.

There has been continual discussions about a high speed rail from Chattanooga to Atlanta using Maglev. Any time we spend on that subject is wasted time.

Now there is talk of a planned new service from DC to Bristol being extended to Knoxville and Chattanooga. Most of the political power in Tennessee has shifted east meaning that this idea stands a chance of happening if all the political stars are properly aligned. We'll wait and see.

Tennessee is not a pro-rail state, but there is a quiet railroad revolution going on especially now that the Music City Star commuter train is taking hold.

I would be happy right now if we could get a decent Thruway bus service to Birmingham, Atlanta, St. Louis, or Carbondale!
 
And Bill, don't forget the New York - Memphis sleeper on the same route as the Nashville sleeper, but at Bowling Green, KY went to Memphis via L&N's Memphis Branch on a section of the Pan American.
Yes, and you and your grandmother were riding that when the Dixieland was rammed by a freight. At least I think so, I do not mean to be presumptous if I am confusing you with somebody else..

There were nine sleepers to fill the line from New York to Memphis, New York to Nashville and New York to Louisviile. They were painted in Pennsy colors, at first at least. The Nashville one lasted the longest but you are dead center right to point out the one to Memphis which I briefly forgot..

Later that same pool of sleepers were used to go southbound on the Dixie Flyer from Chicago to Nashville and northbound on the Georgian from Nashville to Chicago. They thus replaced a heavyweight sleeper, which did not belong on the essentially lightweight Georgian. They had a common root in Nashville.
 
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And Bill, don't forget the New York - Memphis sleeper on the same route as the Nashville sleeper, but at Bowling Green, KY went to Memphis via L&N's Memphis Branch on a section of the Pan American.
Yes, and you and your grandmother were riding that when the Dixieland was rammed by a freight. At least I think so, I do not mean to be presumptous if I am confusing you with somebody else..

There were nine sleepers to fill the line from New York to Memphis, New York to Nashville and New York to Louisviile. They were painted in Pennsy colors, at first at least. The Nashville one lasted the longest but you are dead center right to point out the one to Memphis which I briefly forgot..

Later that same pool of sleepers were used to go southbound on the Dixie Flyer from Chicago to Nashville and northbound on the Georgian from Nashville to Chicago. They thus replaced a heavyweight sleeper, which did not belong on the essentially lightweight Georgian. They had a common root in Nashville.
Tennessee passenger services for the most part died early in the post WW2 decline in passenger service. Only the ICRR trains carried respectable loads into the mid to late 60's. The Georgian continued to carry decent loads as well, but for the most part these were people going from teh Chicago area to Atlanta and just passing through Tennessee.

My first ride on a train was on the City of Memphis between Memphis and Jackson TN. It was also my only ride behind steam on a regular schedule. Not only is the train gone, so is the track.

After Memphis Union Station closed, Southern moved their trains to the original Memphis and Charleston station, which was in the mid 60's still standing and really not in bad condition. It was one of the few buildings in the city that survived the War Between the States. Truly a historic structure. Was it preserved? NO.

As to the East-Middle-West issues: That is the reason that the Tennessee state flag has three stars onit. It is formally divided into three grand divisions. The Tennessee River divides West adn Middle and Walded Ridge, which is also the line selected to divide Eastern adn Central Time divides Middle and East. If I recall correctly, the state Supreme Court has 7 judges, and the makeup is required to be 2 from each grand division woth the seventh either from any or being required to rotate. Somebody else will have to confirm or deny that one.
 
"Man, there is no Amtrak in Nashville or Knoxville!" This is what you might say if you use Amtrak and you live in either of these cities.
If I live in either of these cities, what is the likelihood that I also use Amtrak frequently enough to be that concerned?

Actually, there are several of us in East Tennessee who use Amtrak frequently and drive to Atlanta to board. And we are all concerned but Tennessee is not a pro-rail state and that isn't likely to change in the near future. I'd personally settle for a Thruway to Atlanta even if I have to drive to Chattanooga to board it. Fortunately for me, I have a daughter (and grandchildren) in Atlanta so driving there (and visiting with my grandchildren) isn't such a hardship!
 
Wow. Only five years old and ridership is way up. Soon they would need more equipments and need to expand service!
This line was the "low hanging fruit". It is a low volume short line, and I think the track is owned by the state. They managed to get it up and running dirt cheap as these things go. Most of the money spent on the start was in getting the track up to a standard that permitted 60 mph operation. Unfortunately this is probably the lowest in demand.

All the other routes would require megabucks for additional tracks, etc to provide capacity as they are all busy freight lines. The only exception is probably the line west toward Dickson, but that would also be a fairly low demand corridor.
 
I do however, think Nashville to Memphis service would be a potentially good idea. With stops like Murfreesboroon the way.

But only if Amtrak has spare money to spend, which they dont.
Putting that name on signs and the timetables would probably wipe out any spare money Amtrak had. :giggle:
 
Wow. Only five years old and ridership is way up. Soon they would need more equipments and need to expand service!
This line was the "low hanging fruit". It is a low volume short line, and I think the track is owned by the state. They managed to get it up and running dirt cheap as these things go. Most of the money spent on the start was in getting the track up to a standard that permitted 60 mph operation. Unfortunately this is probably the lowest in demand.

All the other routes would require megabucks for additional tracks, etc to provide capacity as they are all busy freight lines. The only exception is probably the line west toward Dickson, but that would also be a fairly low demand corridor.
Well I suppose you could upgrade the NERR's Nashville and Western line, ex Tennessee Central, towards Ashland City. Certainly it would be a real challenge to rebuild TC's many trestles from there into Clarksville.
 
The Memphis dirction first sizable town west of Nashville is Dickson, which would be a reasonable but somewht distant terminal in that direction. However, this is probably a moe lightly populated corridor than the ex Tennessee Central line to Labanon.

Nashville to Murfreesboro would probably be the most heavily used commuter corridors, and the railroad is mostly straight. However, this is a very heavily used freight corridor, so unless someone is ready to cough up the money for a complete double track not likely to get commuter service anytime soon.

Nashville south to Franklin and Columbina would probably be a good candidate, and south of Brentwood would probably not need a lot of work to get decent speed, although it is unsignaled. However, from Brentwood north figure on adding a track.

Nashvillenorth to Gallatin would likely be the second highest corridor for use, if nto teh highest, but again, a heavily used freight line that would probably need a full second track.

As to the ex Tennessee Central line to Ashland City: I though this was a fairly lightly populated area. Also, this line would probably need considerably more work to get it up to snuff than the line to Lebanon did. To further complcate matters, when it gets into Nashville, id does not aim toward downtown, but away from it for the old TC belt line that is now under I440.

Nashville as a govenment center probably has a more downtown oriented employement center than any ontehr city in teh state and would really benefit from good commuter service in several directions, but the political will to go for the megabucks it would take to get there is lacking. The relatively low traffic volume on the Music City Star trains unfortunately does not help. I have wondered even sice I first heeard about it why they did not go a couple of miles further to shortly past where the ex TC line crosses under I-40 and put in a huge parking lot. I think doing that would significantly increase ridership.
 
I do however, think Nashville to Memphis service would be a potentially good idea. With stops like Murfreesboroon the way.

But only if Amtrak has spare money to spend, which they dont.
Murfreesboro is between Chattanooga and Nashville, not between Nashville and Memphis.
Wooops silly me. lol
Just for perspective Murfreesboro is on one of the older and one time well known routes from Chicago to Miami. This with such former name trains as the Dixie Flyer, Dixie Limited, Dixie Flagler, Dixieland and Georgian and some locals. That is the route Chicago,Evansville,Nashville,Murfreesboro,Tullahoma,Chattanooga,Atlanta,Jacksonville and Miami.

This is not to be confused with other routes from Chicago to Miami, such as the South WInd (later Floridian) which Amtrak inherited.

Murfreesboro did have a connection to the routes you mention going through Virginia and Tennessee. This is the through sleeper I have already mentioned which ran on the Tennessean from Bristol to Chattanooga which was there transferred to another train to Nashville, which of course includes Murfreesboro.
 
I thought this post title might refer to the tourist train run by the Tennessee Central Railway Museum. They have a long, silver streamliner that runs east from Nashville on excursions. Including many Budd cars, a Pullman dome and an SAL glass-top lounge, it looks like a worthy successor to the Zephyr legacy...
 
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