Sleeping Car – Non-Berth Service

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We took a ride in a bedroom sleeper in 2009 on the Coast Starlight, and one of our relatives under 15 was going to join up with us along the way. I called Amtrak to find out what the policy for underage in coach was, and she cheerfully explained it and then offered to add him to our bedroom rezzie, for the cost of the coach ticket. She said he may have to pay for meals. He ended up flying instead, but I was pleased that they offered to add him. It would have been considered Berth only, as it was a daytime trip.
 
It would have been considered Berth only, as it was a daytime trip.
According to Amtrak's own manual the time of day is not the deciding factor. Rather, it's how the room is used that is the deciding factor. Which sort of leaves me wondering what would prevent you from just closing the door and the shades and setting up the room however you like. A roomette can have three folks if two are sitting in the chairs and one is lying down in the upper bed.
 
. . . they all yell at him to "Read the Warehouse Manual". They even made an acronymn for it: RTFM for Read the Flippin' Manual!
When I first saw RTFM in the thread my eyes first erad it as the slightly reshuffled military approximation: REMF. The fist two words are Rear Echelon. The last two involve an improper parental relationship, which I leave to the imagination. It generaly involve idiotic pronouncements and rules made by someone with power and no sense sitting in an office a long way from the action adn concerning activities about which he knew nothing or next to it.
 
It would have been considered Berth only, as it was a daytime trip.
According to Amtrak's own manual the time of day is not the deciding factor. Rather, it's how the room is used that is the deciding factor. Which sort of leaves me wondering what would prevent you from just closing the door and the shades and setting up the room however you like. A roomette can have three folks if two are sitting in the chairs and one is lying down in the upper bed.
I've read of people doing just that-but turning the bunk into a sort of play area for their kids.

I think it would be better in a Viewliner because there is a window up there and it's a little taller up there.

My experiences have been in Superliners only. I do think you could seat 4 in a bedroom with no issues at all. If two are little, like toddlers, babies or under 7 or 8, you could probably sleep all 4 in a bedroom.
 
Because you're standing in the aisle, the manual back in your cabin (before you say, "why don't you carry it with you at all times?" think for a second about what that would mean while you make up 40 beds), 3 other people waiting for your attention... and going back to do homework doesn't strike you as the proper course of action in the moment.

That is not to say that making up answers is good: I'm just giving the obvious answer to what I see as a naive question.

BTW, while I got hold of the manual soon after I became a Train Attendant, I was never told to read it, nor do I recall being told I was responsible for knowing its contents. I _did_ read it, out of interest, but I don't recall ever being called upon (in 3 years on the railroad) to produce any reply that it might have contained, and that I did not already know. This day sleeper business is pretty arcane....

The real question is that why are so many Amtrak employees so misinformed about what the rules actually are?
I'd guess that like most handouts, when Amtrak employees are given updates or new manuals they file em and forget em! Most people that have been on any job for awhile settle into the routine and get comfortable with the status quo! As has been said, the training in Amtrak is poor to non-existant! Bet the suits that write these things couldnt pass an exam on lots of rules and policies! :rolleyes: Rules Examaniers used to be lots more prevelant and strict back in the day according to old timers! :help:
Since the employee always has the manual with them when on the job, he/she can just refer to it for the less-common situations rather than give false information from their memory or just an "I don't know". But why don't they do that?
 
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"I'm not sure, but let me look into it and I'll find out" is a perfectly acceptable answer. Besides, you didn't have to know the arcane bits about non-berth usage, that's really more important for the booking agents. Once they're on your manifest, that's all you really need to be concerned with.

And you were told that you needed to read it:

""My signature indicates that I have received a copy of

Service Standards Manual for Train Service and

On-Board Service Employees, Version 6 and a copy

of the Policy Resource Booklet for Amtrak Employees,

Version 3. Effective 12:01 am, April 30, 2011.

I understand that I am responsible for reading and

updating my manual and that I must follow the procedures

outlined. I also understand that this receipt will be placed

in my personnel file"
 
"I'm not sure, but let me look into it and I'll find out" is a perfectly acceptable answer. Besides, you didn't have to know the arcane bits about non-berth usage, that's really more important for the booking agents. Once they're on your manifest, that's all you really need to be concerned with.

And you were told that you needed to read it:

""My signature indicates that I have received a copy of

Service Standards Manual for Train Service and

On-Board Service Employees, Version 6 and a copy

of the Policy Resource Booklet for Amtrak Employees,

Version 3. Effective 12:01 am, April 30, 2011.

I understand that I am responsible for reading and

updating my manual and that I must follow the procedures

outlined. I also understand that this receipt will be placed

in my personnel file"
Ryan, the receipt you are quoting has only been in use for the last few years. Prior to that you were basically handed the manual and told "you must carry this with you at all times"...LOL
 
It's mind boggling to think that you were handed a document that outlined your employers policies and think that you didn't have to be familiar with its contents.

This sounds like our US Congress!! Remember Nancy Pelosi's comment:

"We need to pass this bill (Obamacare) so we can find out what is in it"
 
That's not what she said. She said that people would figure out what was in it when it passed, since the media was nowhere near correct in describing the bills contents.
A morning radio program in New York has a recording of Pelosi's speech where she says

what I quoted above. They play it three or four times a week.
 
That's not what she said. She said that people would figure out what was in it when it passed, since the media was nowhere near correct in describing the bills contents.
A morning radio program in New York has a recording of Pelosi's speech where she says

what I quoted above. They play it three or four times a week.
She didn't say "we". She said "you". As in, so you can see what is in it. That implies that she has already read the bill.
 
“We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it”
Dick! Dick! :help: Try listening to a responsible station, not Fox Noise! :rolleyes: (aka Fixed News!)NPR has had some pretty good programs on this, and as the courts hold the various hearings on this bill (wasting millions of tax payer dollars on lawyers!!!) interesting things are coming out, including todays revelations that the various States have the flexibility to tailor their coverage according to their needs, its not one big "Socialized Obama Scheme" to ruin life as we know it!This is another of the Republican/T-party talking points, just like the crapola about Amtrak, ( aka lies) that have been spread ,via the wing nut grapevine, about the Health Care Reform Bill that over 60% of Americans now support!!!!
 
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That's not what she said. She said that people would figure out what was in it when it passed, since the media was nowhere near correct in describing the bills contents.
A morning radio program in New York has a recording of Pelosi's speech where she says

what I quoted above. They play it three or four times a week.
She didn't say "we". She said "you". As in, so you can see what is in it. That implies that she has already read the bill.
Exactly. The only way "you" (me and you and Joe Citizen) were going to find out how the bill impacted us was if "We" (Congress) passed it and we were allowed to see for ourselves what it brought.

Pretty accurate, and unsurprising that the same media organizations that spun the ACA into something that it wasnt tried to spin Pelosi's words into something they weren't.

Now, how about we leave the partisan hackery aside and get back to trains?
 
OK, so?

It's mind boggling to think that you were handed a document that outlined your employers policies and think that you didn't have to be familiar with its contents.
It may be mind boggling to you, but that is the way Amtrak operated for MANY years. When I hired on, I received 4 days of classroom training and made 3 training trips. Once as a sleeper attendant, once as dining car service attendant, and once as an LSA, then sent out and told to do the best I could. Now, new hires receive 3-4 weeks of classroom training, and spend a month going on training trips.
 
That's not the part that is mind boggling. The mind boggling part is the idea that because you weren't told to "read and understand" that one wouldn't think that it wasn't important to do so.

I have no doubt that Amtrak was run that way, but if there was a slip of paper to sign or not, ignorance is no excuse for just making up policy.
 
That's not the part that is mind boggling. The mind boggling part is the idea that because you weren't told to "read and understand" that one wouldn't think that it wasn't important to do so.

I have no doubt that Amtrak was run that way, but if there was a slip of paper to sign or not, ignorance is no excuse for just making up policy.
Ryan, you are clearly better than the rest of us, and I admire you for that. You must have a hard time finding people that live up to your standards, but we each have a cross to bear.

Conversely, no one has spoken of "making up policy." That is a horse of your invention, a straw man whose demolition seeks to make you stand tall.

As a previous poster has noted, my training class was NOT given any sort of statement to sign that said I had "read and understood" anything. Indeed, I wasn't even given the book. I came across it in the Chicago crew base (I was based in NY), after I had been on the road for more than 6 months, and "borrowed" it. I have no idea who my copy belonged to, and I never saw another one. I still have it. I left Amtrak many years ago, and have worked for several railroads since, including the Venice Simplon Orient Express, SNCF, and the Belgian National. I am good at what I do, and proud of my work ethic, even though it falls short of yours. And thus I found the rule book interesting. But...

...I received 4 days training when I hired on in 1979. It was supposed to be 5, but the instructor — who was excellent, let it be said — was absent one day, for some critical work-related reason that I no longer remember.

My ONE training trip was a round-trip from NYP to Harrisburg on a Slumbercoach of the "Broadway Limited." The outbound TA was an old-timer, a year from retirement, who put me in an empty cabin and told me not to leave it, lest I "get in the way." The return TA was a new hire, completing his first trip. Imagine his surprise at being told he was to "show me the ropes!"

The manual is 150 pages or so long, and it is not exciting reading. Most of it's recommendations fall squarely in the "duh" category. I confess, that makes the few surprising ones easier to remember. But plowing through 150 pages of legaleze to get to them is not easy.

Amtrak looks for many skills in its Train Attendants, but even in my day, most of those were broadly linked to the hospitality industry. Needless to say, people with talent in hospitality are often quite different in mental structure from those who glide through arcane English with bullet points numbered by decimals.

Yes, I have read the manual, and I was (and still am) "familiar" with it. Though I would venture to say that few of my fellow Attendants (we still called ourselves "porters," in the vernacular) were. But familiarity and memorization are not the same.

All of this is to say that perfection is not human, except in you, where any failure "boggles." Or is being easily boggled an imperfection? That is above my pay grade.

No one, on this post or in life, condones making up policy. But sometimes you think you know the answer, so you give it. And then, that night, when the last passenger is in bed, and you have a couple of hours before your 4a wake-up to get someone off in Cleveland, instead of lying down, you look up the issue in the manual. And you discover you got it wrong. As Governor Perry would say, "Oops."
 
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That's not what she said. She said that people would figure out what was in it when it passed, since the media was nowhere near correct in describing the bills contents.
A morning radio program in New York has a recording of Pelosi's speech where she says

what I quoted above. They play it three or four times a week.
She didn't say "we". She said "you". As in, so you can see what is in it. That implies that she has already read the bill.
Exactly. The only way "you" (me and you and Joe Citizen) were going to find out how the bill impacted us was if "We" (Congress) passed it and we were allowed to see for ourselves what it brought.

Pretty accurate, and unsurprising that the same media organizations that spun the ACA into something that it wasnt tried to spin Pelosi's words into something they weren't.

Now, how about we leave the partisan hackery
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Best line on AU in a while! While I like the back-and-forth, I'd have to agree with Ryan on this one! aside and get back to trains?
 
Ryan, you are clearly better than the rest of us, and I admire you for that. You must have a hard time finding people that live up to your standards, but we each have a cross to bear.
Dude, lose the attitude - the full court defense just makes you look guilty. I never said that I was better than anyone here.

Conversely, no one has spoken of "making up policy." That is a horse of your invention, a straw man whose demolition seeks to make you stand tall.
Actually, that was the topic of the post that you replied to. Let me refresh your memory:

Since the employee always has the manual with them when on the job, he/she can just refer to it for the less-common situations rather than give false information from their memory or just an "I don't know". But why don't they do that?
If you were indeed not given one, then that would have been a much better answer than "Because I was too busy to provide proper customer service", which is what your reply amounted to.

The manual is 150 pages or so long, and it is not exciting reading. Most of it's recommendations fall squarely in the "duh" category. I confess, that makes the few surprising ones easier to remember. But plowing through 150 pages of legaleze to get to them is not easy.
If it were easy, they wouldn't have to pay you. That's why they call it "work".
Yes, I have read the manual, and I was (and still am) "familiar" with it. Though I would venture to say that few of my fellow Attendants (we still called ourselves "porters," in the vernacular) were. But familiarity and memorization are not the same.
That's fine, since nobody is calling for memorizing the entire document.
No one, on this post or in life, condones making up policy. But sometimes you think you know the answer, so you give it. And then, that night, when the last passenger is in bed, and you have a couple of hours before your 4a wake-up to get someone off in Cleveland, instead of lying down, you look up the issue in the manual. And you discover you got it wrong. As Governor Perry would say, "Oops."
Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps if that had been your initial reply, it could have ended there.
 
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