I just returned from a long trip and on the California Zephyr, we were traveling coach from Helper Utah to Chicago. As soon as we boarded, we notified our car attendant that we would like to upgrade to a sleeper. There were two adults and two 13 yr olds. The conductor came to us and said they only had a bedroom left, but all four of us could have it since they were oversold on coach seats and could use our seats. So, they booked all four of us in a bedroom for an overnight journey (therefore, not non-berth). The dining crew only allowed us three meals, though. It was okay for four during the day but very crowded with the beds made up. My son and I shared the upper berth because the other 13 yr old boy was much heavier than my son. I was amazed that we could both fit in the upper berth, but we did. I can't say it was the best night's sleep I got, but we did get some rest.
Sleeping Car – Non-Berth Service
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Ryan
Court Jester
Even better than the Service Standards manual, I'd love for someone to FOIA the rulebook for AGR, which at this point in time seems to be "Whatever they feel like doing".
On topic, I think that you should be able to get away with this. Looking at the differences between the "berth" and "non-berth" sections, In the "berth" section, you can put 4 in a bedroom as long as 2 (or more) of the passengers are children. In the "non-berth" section, the max that you can do in a bedroom is 4 in any combination.
Since AGR doesn't differentiate between child and adult tickets, just tell them that 2 of the people are children, give them all 4 names and there shouldn't be an issue.
dart330
OBS Chief
I just successfully booked 4 adults into a bedroom. After the reservation agent was unable to do it I was transferred to customer service. I quoted them the policy and I was put on hold while they called a support desk. The support person had been there 20 years and had never heard of the policy, had to look it up to verify, claimed it was a new policy. They booked the first 2 in the room, then made a second reservation that says
"Open
Seats/Rooms:
1 Bedroom
(Open-Space Has Not Been Reserved)"
They then linked the two reservations and said the conductor's manifest would show that all 4 are in the same room. It only took an hour on the phone to book.
"Open
Seats/Rooms:
1 Bedroom
(Open-Space Has Not Been Reserved)"
They then linked the two reservations and said the conductor's manifest would show that all 4 are in the same room. It only took an hour on the phone to book.
Ispolkom
Engineer
Oh, come on, you know there's no rulebook for AGR.
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
:lol:
As my Dad use to say: "Run into the roundhouse Nellie, 'cause they can't corner you there!"
Dovecote
OBS Chief
Good for you! By the way, what is your starting and ending points? Were you able to book this as an AGR redemption? And please let us know if meals were complimentary for all four passengers. Hopefully you have opened the door for others that will follow in your footsteps. If so, thanks!
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abcnews
OBS Chief
Good Job! Now it may be a little easier for the rest of us.
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dart330
OBS Chief
This was not an AGR award and according to the AGR Insider it is not possible to book as such. We are traveling from OKC to SAS roundtrip with the room from FTW to SAS and back. I did not ask about meals but will be carrying a copy of the policy in case there are any questions.
If you are going to try and book one of these, just go straight to customer service and skip the reservation agent.
If you are going to try and book one of these, just go straight to customer service and skip the reservation agent.
Sounds like the LSA in the Diner needs some Training/Updating! :help: Since the Conductor upgraded yall to a Bedroom for 4 (2 Adults/2 Teens), seems that the Family Room which allows 4 persons (2 Adults/2 Children) with Meals is the same as 4 in a Bedroom! :wacko: You should have received the 4th Meal the way I read the Policy! :excl: :excl: :excl:
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
This seems to cause a lot of confusion. I had dinner one time with a woman and her two grandkids who were sharing a roomette. She was told when she booked that all three of their meals were included. On the way out she had no problems, but on her return trip, when I was with them for dinner, the LSA gave her a really hard time about it - to the point where she finally said, to heck with it, I'll pay for one of the kid's dinners.
I wonder what The Manual says?
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I had a roomette for us and a BR for the kids and infant son (daytime travel) and had booked a separate ticket for a friend traveling with us. When I called, I told them the online system would not allow me to book 3 in a BR for daytime travel. The agent checked and said it was OK to do but online can't handle it. She "linked" the reservations and that fifth person has the same comment as yours. Agent said there should be no problem. I hope not.
Note this was done before we all saw the policy. I am taking a copy of the policy with me in case of a problem.
amamba
Engineer
I seem to recall a post where the EB_OBS poster said it was possible for bedrooms to include meals for up to four adults. Maybe from about six months ago. Let me see if the search feature will let me find it....
amamba
Engineer
V
visitor
Guest
As a conductor, I have to disagree: the total number of persons allowed to book into a Family Bedroom is 5, no matter the age or size. For overnight, it would be wildly uncomfortable, but for day, totally allowable. And you get 5 meals each meal period...just make sure all 5 names are on the manifest for that room!
I have to say that while they were also much less effecient than the staff on the Cap Ltd or EB, they were also much less friendly and almost rude. So, we didn't press the issue. Now that AMAMBA found the thread with the policy, perhaps a call to customer service is worthwhile, especially with some of the other issues. The assistant conductor who handled our upgrade onboard was very nice and accomodating. She was also very new. I hope she keeps her friendly, helpful attitude over time and doesn't become jaded.This seems to cause a lot of confusion. I had dinner one time with a woman and her two grandkids who were sharing a roomette. She was told when she booked that all three of their meals were included. On the way out she had no problems, but on her return trip, when I was with them for dinner, the LSA gave her a really hard time about it - to the point where she finally said, to heck with it, I'll pay for one of the kid's dinners.
I wonder what The Manual says?
Ryan
Court Jester
You should check your paperwork again, as 6 is also possible.
trainman74
Conductor
Page 8-184:I had dinner one time with a woman and her two grandkids who were sharing a roomette. She was told when she booked that all three of their meals were included. On the way out she had no problems, but on her return trip, when I was with them for dinner, the LSA gave her a really hard time about it - to the point where she finally said, to heck with it, I'll pay for one of the kid's dinners.
I wonder what The Manual says?
(Italics in the first bullet point are as in the manual.)
Ryan
Court Jester
The real question is that why are so many Amtrak employees so misinformed about what the rules actually are?
I don't think they are given periodic examinations on it, or even any exam at all.
I'd guess that like most handouts, when Amtrak employees are given updates or new manuals they file em and forget em! Most people that have been on any job for awhile settle into the routine and get comfortable with the status quo! As has been said, the training in Amtrak is poor to non-existant! Bet the suits that write these things couldnt pass an exam on lots of rules and policies!
Rules Examaniers used to be lots more prevelant and strict back in the day according to old timers! :help:
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Since the employee always has the manual with them when on the job, he/she can just refer to it for the less-common situations rather than give false information from their memory or just an "I don't know". But why don't they do that?I'd guess that like most handouts, when Amtrak employees are given updates or new manuals they file em and forget em! Most people that have been on any job for awhile settle into the routine and get comfortable with the status quo! As has been said, the training in Amtrak is poor to non-existant! Bet the suits that write these things couldnt pass an exam on lots of rules and policies!
Ryan
Court Jester
Because nobody is pushing them to. I'm sure there are exceptions, but overall middle management seems to be somewhat lacking at Amtrak.
rrdude
Engineer
Enforcement of the existing rule is what I feel is lacking. And that I blame, squarely on the Unions representing the OBS workers.
Oh how I HATED TO PAY MY UNION DUES, (but loved the Union fighting for me for better wages, I know, hypocrite)
When I worked for Amtrak on board, it was "almost impossible" to get written up for not doing your job correctly, or doing it poorly. And even if you were written up, the Union rep was there, without even reading the reason, to defend the employee. (I guess that is there job, but I swear, it's more about PROTECTING the union, than providing "world class service" to the traveling public)
I had more employees telling me to "slow down" or "not do so much" 'cause you will make "us" look bad, than I ever had issues with pax. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm sure I was unprofessionally curt with a pax or two (or a few) after three turns on the Chief, or a few runs on some of the midwest trains that serve colleges on a Friday or a Sunday.
But improving service, or at least getting the staff to adhere to existing policies would certainly be a staff. But Ryan is also correct when he says that "middle mgmt is lacking........"
There just aren't enuff spotters, train chiefs, or others in mgmt riding Amtrak, and keeping track of the employees, and their misdeeds. (or for that manner, PRAISING employees when they go "above and beyond")
Better than it was in the past? Yup. But they have a long way to go. I think by and large the T&E staff has improved the most over the years. "Back in the day" you had some real SOB's working as conductors and A/C. Some of them made life miserable for both OBS employees, and the traveling public.
Oh how I HATED TO PAY MY UNION DUES, (but loved the Union fighting for me for better wages, I know, hypocrite)
When I worked for Amtrak on board, it was "almost impossible" to get written up for not doing your job correctly, or doing it poorly. And even if you were written up, the Union rep was there, without even reading the reason, to defend the employee. (I guess that is there job, but I swear, it's more about PROTECTING the union, than providing "world class service" to the traveling public)
I had more employees telling me to "slow down" or "not do so much" 'cause you will make "us" look bad, than I ever had issues with pax. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm sure I was unprofessionally curt with a pax or two (or a few) after three turns on the Chief, or a few runs on some of the midwest trains that serve colleges on a Friday or a Sunday.
But improving service, or at least getting the staff to adhere to existing policies would certainly be a staff. But Ryan is also correct when he says that "middle mgmt is lacking........"
There just aren't enuff spotters, train chiefs, or others in mgmt riding Amtrak, and keeping track of the employees, and their misdeeds. (or for that manner, PRAISING employees when they go "above and beyond")
Better than it was in the past? Yup. But they have a long way to go. I think by and large the T&E staff has improved the most over the years. "Back in the day" you had some real SOB's working as conductors and A/C. Some of them made life miserable for both OBS employees, and the traveling public.
EB_OBS
Conductor
Good memory. That is still the current policy in effect.
As Eric (GG-1) will tell you, the union by law must fight for you even if the union thinks that management is right. They don't have a choice in the matter. Failing to fight could see the Fed dissolving or fining the union.
We found one of those conductors on the City of NOL out of Memphis two weeks ago. A man on a real power trip claiming that his way of doing things is the policy, which thanks to the release of the manual has now confirmed what we knew all along, that it wasn't policy.
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