Sleeping Car – Non-Berth Service

[The Davy Crockett]

Better than it was in the past? Yup. But they have a long way to go. I think by and large the T&E staff has improved the most over the years. "Back in the day" you had some real SOB's working as conductors and A/C. Some of them made life miserable for both OBS employees, and the traveling public.

We found one of those conductors on the City of NOL out of Memphis two weeks ago. A man on a real power trip claiming that his way of doing things is the policy, which thanks to the release of the manual has now confirmed what we knew all along, that it wasn't policy.

Alan, I think you bring up an intersting point that I'll be mulling over a bit. I've usually tried to just go along with things in a non-confrontational way when aboard, even when experience and/or common sense tells me that the employee is full of it. I think that is going to be be a little tougher to do now, especially when I'm in a situation where I've read the section of The Manual that applies to that particular scenario and what is being said is completely over-the-top. I don't think for me it will be that big of a deal, but the temptation will be greater to challenge. On the other side, I wonder if: 1) it might make staff just a wee bit more likely to hesitate at being completely full of it, or 2) will they strike back harder if someone even mentions The Manual?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

The staff could just say " the policy's changed this is the new way of doing things now" etc.

 

[rrdude]

The staff could just say " the policy's changed this is the new way of doing things now" etc.

And if they are going to be confrontational to you, you simply whip out your cell, and start calling Amtrak's toll free number for customer support.

 

[GG-1]

When I worked for Amtrak on board, it was "almost impossible" to get written up for not doing your job correctly, or doing it poorly. And even if you were written up, the Union rep was there, without even reading the reason, to defend the employee. (I guess that is there job, but I swear, it's more about PROTECTING the union, than providing "world class service" to the traveling public)

As Eric (GG-1) will tell you, the union by law must fight for you even if the union thinks that management is right. They don't have a choice in the matter. Failing to fight could see the Fed dissolving or fining the union.

Aloha

This the reason we all suggest that any complaint be written. A well documented complaint will show that the employee was treated fairly and by the rules. This is a major obligation of the union, to insure the rules are followed. And by the way, no union officer wants to see bad workers, makes contract negotiations that much harder.

 

[jb64]

Found it!

http://discuss.amtra...638#entry181638

Good memory. That is still the current policy in effect.

So, we upgraded to a bedroom on my recent Zephyr trip and the conductor had no problem with us all (2 adults and 2 children) going into the bedroom but the LSA would only allow three meals. Based on this thread, I called customer relations and spoke to an agent who insisted that we should not have been allowed to put all four in the bedroom and we were only allowed 3 meals. I quoted her from the above and she insisted that was not correct. She stated she used to be a ticket agent and she knew that only three people could be booked in a bedroom and only three got meals. So, my second overall call to customer service has been as helpful as my first (not at all). :angry:

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Keep trying. This morning I made a reservation online on #14 for a roomette. I called Julie and found out I'd been assigned a lower level roomette. My preference is an upper level roomette, so I called back and spoke to an agent. He was not very friendly or cheerful, but said he would check and, after a couple of minutes of complete silence (which seemed odd, as you can usually hear some background noise when a service agent is working on a reservation, and I was not on hold) he told me that no other roomettes were available, not even in the dorm/sleeper. I called back after a couple of minutes and spoke to a very cheerful and friendly agent. As if by magic, she found several upper level roomettes for me to choose from!

 

[Ryan]

And by the way, no union officer wants to see bad workers, makes contract negotiations that much harder.

I'd amend that to say "most union officers". The union for the local WMATA workers is TERRIBLE.

So, we upgraded to a bedroom on my recent Zephyr trip and the conductor had no problem with us all (2 adults and 2 children) going into the bedroom but the LSA would only allow three meals. Based on this thread, I called customer relations and spoke to an agent who insisted that we should not have been allowed to put all four in the bedroom and we were only allowed 3 meals. I quoted her from the above and she insisted that was not correct. She stated she used to be a ticket agent and she knew that only three people could be booked in a bedroom and only three got meals. So, my second overall call to customer service has been as helpful as my first (not at all). :angry:

Hopefully you have the name of the agent? That gets into "sternly worded letter" time in my book, not only complaining about the LSA, but the poorly trained call agents. Bonus points if you print out the relevant page and include it with the letter.

 

[AlanB]

The staff could just say " the policy's changed this is the new way of doing things now" etc.

To which, at least in my case with that conductor, I would have responded: "Um, I just boarded the Crescent in NY on Sunday and their policy there was the one that I see in this manual. And I just boarded the Crescent in Atlanta on Tuesday and again their policy was the one in the manual. So clearly there hasn't been a change in policy."

 

[jb64]

And by the way, no union officer wants to see bad workers, makes contract negotiations that much harder.

I'd amend that to say "most union officers". The union for the local WMATA workers is TERRIBLE.

So, we upgraded to a bedroom on my recent Zephyr trip and the conductor had no problem with us all (2 adults and 2 children) going into the bedroom but the LSA would only allow three meals. Based on this thread, I called customer relations and spoke to an agent who insisted that we should not have been allowed to put all four in the bedroom and we were only allowed 3 meals. I quoted her from the above and she insisted that was not correct. She stated she used to be a ticket agent and she knew that only three people could be booked in a bedroom and only three got meals. So, my second overall call to customer service has been as helpful as my first (not at all). :angry:

Hopefully you have the name of the agent? That gets into "sternly worded letter" time in my book, not only complaining about the LSA, but the poorly trained call agents. Bonus points if you print out the relevant page and include it with the letter.

I did not write down her name, but I was thinking about writing a letter. I wish I had a scanned image of the actual page to send with it rather than "someone says".

By the way, I am headed to your alma mater for my cousins wedding on Saturday. This Hoo has had to hear alot of smack from my hokie cousin, but I guess I should go to his wedding, anyway.

 

[VentureForth]

A bit off topic here...

A TV show that I have been enjoying lately on the SyFy channel is "Warehouse 13". The two main characters are Secret Service agents with opposing personalities. Every time the male protagonist blunders or doesn't understand something that everyone else should, they all yell at him to "Read the Warehouse Manual". They even made an acronymn for it: RTFM for Read the Flippin' Manual!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

They even made an acronymn for it: RTFM for Read the Flippin' Manual!

The first time I heard "RTFM" was probably over ten years ago. The "F" was always an expletive, which I suppose is probably why the acronym was created in the first place.

 

[RRrich]

I suspect that most of the old folks here will tell you that RTFM has been around for a long time :giggle:

 

[VentureForth]

I didn't grow up in this country. I am an immigrant. I didn't want to be thrown off the board for putting up expletives.

So, if RTFM has been around for a while, can we use that with the crusty conductors and LSAs?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I didn't grow up in this country. I am an immigrant. I didn't want to be thrown off the board for putting up expletives. So, if RTFM has been around for a while, can we use that with the crusty conductors and LSAs?

I wouldn't if I were you. It's one thing to stand your ground and refuse to suck-up to anyone at Amtrak. It's quite another thing to swear at them through the guise of an acronym. Chances are they'll know what it stands for and will not take kindly to its use. By all means you can and should expect them to follow the rules, but needlessly escalating the situation just so you can get a jab in seems more than a little counterproductive to me.

 

[Railroad Bill]

This has been one of the most interesting threads recently found on AU. Certainly learned much new information about policies re: sleepers and the number of occupants. But it also points out the most glaring problems with Amtrak travel.

1) Why should one have to become confrontational with Amtrak employees who do not do their job and do not know their company's policies. I would prefer not getting an ulcer each time someone on the train doesn't follow the rules.

2) Why do agents give conflicting information each time one calls for reservations. (Thus needing to call back numerous times to get the "correct" answer? Lack of training. ( I will say my last four calls to AGR have been very pleasant and the agents very professional.

3) Why are Amtrak employees with bad attitudes allowed to continue in employment? (Unions, lack of management skills. etc.

There are some things Amtrak cannot control (Weather, suicides, careless drivers who run around crossing gates, some mechanical breakdowns attributed to aged equipment, lack of funding, and "crap happens" events. But personnel who do not do their jobs and therefore make it a less than a pleasurable experience for the passengers who pay the fares, can be fixed if management is willing to do so.

If Amtrak is to succeed in the long run, it must develop a management strategy that involves pride in the organization. Many Amtrak employees have that attitude as has been pointed out in many of our praises for great SCAs, Diner attendants, and even some really nice conductors. But as is usually the case, one bad apple can spoil the whole basket.

BACK ON THREAD-- Can hardly wait to book four of us in a bedroom from CLE to WAS. :lol: :lol:

 

[me_little_me]

If is it for more than 2 people in the sleeper (or 2 adults and 2 children in a Family Room), you MUST call to book - you can not book online! If it is for a day trip, explain the rule, and you may get away with it.

It is not a matter of "getting away with it" if it is company policy. The best thing is what was said by Davy Crockett - ask for a supervisor.

 

[rrdude]

This has been one of the most interesting threads recently found on AU. Certainly learned much new information about policies re: sleepers and the number of occupants. But it also points out the most glaring problems with Amtrak travel.

1) Why should one have to become confrontational with Amtrak employees who do not do their job and do not know their company's policies. I would prefer not getting an ulcer each time someone on the train doesn't follow the rules.

2) Why do agents give conflicting information each time one calls for reservations. (Thus needing to call back numerous times to get the "correct" answer? Lack of training. ( I will say my last four calls to AGR have been very pleasant and the agents very professional.

3) Why are Amtrak employees with bad attitudes allowed to continue in employment? (Unions, lack of management skills. etc.

There are some things Amtrak cannot control (Weather, suicides, careless drivers who run around crossing gates, some mechanical breakdowns attributed to aged equipment, lack of funding, and "crap happens" events. But personnel who do not do their jobs and therefore make it a less than a pleasurable experience for the passengers who pay the fares, can be fixed if management is willing to do so.

If Amtrak is to succeed in the long run, it must develop a management strategy that involves pride in the organization. Many Amtrak employees have that attitude as has been pointed out in many of our praises for great SCAs, Diner attendants, and even some really nice conductors. But as is usually the case, one bad apple can spoil the whole basket.

BACK ON THREAD-- Can hardly wait to book four of us in a bedroom from CLE to WAS. :lol: :lol:

I'd say 40 years qualifies as the "long run". But I think I know what you mean. For me, while employed at Amtrak, it was the unions that screwed things up, and kept employees who should have been night-auditors at hotels in Siberia, on the payroll. BUT, that IS the union's job, in one respect.

(As I was forced to join, and had numerous long, and educational conversations with our old union rep, "Bert" ???. There were certainly reasons for the unions to be created, but in my opinion, the pendulum has swung WAY TO FAR to the other side, needs to swing back to center.)

The best traveler is a WELL INFORMED traveler. Goes for rules for airlines too. In today's crowded skies, if you don't know what you actually entitled too, then when your plans go awry, you can get hosed "just because that's what the ramp agent or clerk tells you.............."

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I see a lot of good points being made here, but focused upon generalities.

IMHO, "non-berth service" is just a dumb idea. Trying to pack as many frat-brothers as possible into a tiny little sleeper accommodation so you all can get complimentary meals, isn't what Sleeper Class is all about.

I can also understand an agent assuming that "non-berth service" can't possibly be true, when some know-it-all voice on the other end of the phone line claims it to be, because it is so obviously a dumb idea.

As to memorizing the manual, no one does that. No one memorizes the stereo manual, no one memorizes the driver's manual, and no one memorizes the Amtrak manual. That's just the way humans are. We only become familiar with those items which we encounter regularly, and its that repartition which ingrains those points into our brains.

An agent should know how to book two parents with their two little kids into a Family Room. But I would not fault an agent who doesn't understand how to book five frat-brothers into the same Family Room.

 

[Tumbleweed]

This is an excerpt from the Service Manual....it seems to make for a strong argument that employees are expected to read, understand, and comply with the contents....and I don't think that is too much to ask of an employee.....

"My signature indicates that I have received a copy of

Service Standards Manual for Train Service and

On-Board Service Employees, Version 6 and a copy

of the Policy Resource Booklet for Amtrak Employees,

Version 3. Effective 12:01 am, April 30, 2011.

I understand that I am responsible for reading and

updating my manual and that I must follow the procedures

outlined. I also understand that this receipt will be placed

in my personnel file"

 

[dart330]

IMHO, "non-berth service" is just a dumb idea. Trying to pack as many frat-brothers as possible into a tiny little sleeper accommodation so you all can get complimentary meals, isn't what Sleeper Class is all about.

I don't know where the idea of cramming frat brothers into a room came from. This trip is for my wife and I along with another couple. We recently did a 4 day trip in a bedroom suite and spent the majority of the daytime all sitting in one room, and slept in our separate rooms at night.

As stated earlier in this thread:

I would not book it for an overnighter, but there are still several advantages to sitting in a bedroom over coach.

-private stock (booze) & ice

-private bathroom

-all meals included

-priority boarding

-1st class lounge access

This is exactly what sleeper class is all about.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I can also understand an agent assuming that "non-berth service" can't possibly be true, when some know-it-all voice on the other end of the phone line claims it to be, because it is so obviously a dumb idea.

Seems to me that the true know-it-all is the one that refuses to look it up, not the one who is consulting the manual. You have yet to explain why it's so "obviously" dumb beyond some vague concern that fraternity members might make use of it.

As to memorizing the manual, no one does that. No one memorizes the stereo manual, no one memorizes the driver's manual, and no one memorizes the Amtrak manual.

I don't think memorizing is the issue. Refusal to consult the manual seems to be the issue.

 

[Blue Marble Travel]

No. From the part quoted above:

• Although this situation usually occurs during daytime travel, this policy is based on the use of the accommodation – not the time of day or night.

Well, then this doesn't make sense to me. Why would someone book a bedroom, but commit to only "non-berth" usage (ie, no night-time configuration requested/allowed), if traveling overnight?

As a former Train Attendant, I can answer: people sometimes use the overnight trains for short, middle-of-the-night rides, or for rides that start or end in middle-of-the-night hours. Such passengers would often tell you not to put down the bed, especially if their arrival was before 3a, or if they were boarding after 4 or so.

Boarding a train in coach in the middle of the night is not necessarily a pleasant experience (waking the sleeping passenger sprawled out across your assigned seat, as well as his own), especially for women traveling alone. Others were business travellers who would work on their computers. They valued the plug, and the ability to turn the lights on in the room without bothering other passengers, the beverage service... (no, I don't know what they did for a living that they had to work at 3a). I had a regular on several trips who traveled Pittsburgh - Cleveland, and Pittsburgh - Toledo was routine, especially when the connecting train to southern Michigan briefly ran (these are night rides, but Pittsburgh - Cleveland, especially, is very short). Other sleeper trips that I remember people making: NY (or other NE corridor point) - Greensboro; Charlotte to Greensboro, Charlottesville, or Altanta: Seattle - Spokane.... Charlotte, a big city with a middle-of-the-night stop, was a big generator of this type of business. Cleveland was another. And Memphis was a third.

I don't remember any but single travelers doing this, but there is no reason to refuse the over-occupancy of a room if someone wants to occupy it in daylight configuration. Chicago - Cleveland riders are routine in the sleepers, and it is hit or miss as to whether they will want the beds down.

BTW, we did occasionally see over-occupied "non-berth" rooms, so _someone_ at Amtrak knew how to sell the tickets....

 

[VentureForth]

I would not book it for an overnighter, but there are still several advantages to sitting in a bedroom over coach.

-private stock (booze) & ice

-private bathroom

-all meals included

-priority boarding

-1st class lounge access

This is exactly what sleeper class is all about.

And a shower! That is a great benefit for long distance day travellers.

 

[rrdude]

Help me out here, (I'm too lazy and stoopid to research) 'cause I'm actually booked on the Coast Starlight LAX to EMY next month, there is no price difference between "Berth" and "Non-Berth" is there?

 

[AG1]

Help me out here, (I'm too lazy and stoopid to research) 'cause I'm actually booked on the Coast Starlight LAX to EMY next month, there is no price difference between "Berth" and "Non-Berth" is there?

Correct