Silver Star stuck for more than 12 hours

[Bus Nut]

No, I don't think asking the conductor's permission is the right way to do it. He's just going to say no. If you're bailing, just take your bag and leave, not saying a word to anyone. Maybe tip the SCA to close the door behind you, if you're in a sleeper. What's the conductor going to do, if he even sees you leave the train?

Ooo, ooo, can I guess? Lessee, call CSX and tell them they have a trespasser on their main line! Reading this thread... oh, CSX had a crew out there on scene already. Hmm, now how does CSX feel about trespassers? I'm sure da googols can tell me....

 

[Ispolkom]

No, I don't think asking the conductor's permission is the right way to do it. He's just going to say no. If you're bailing, just take your bag and leave, not saying a word to anyone. Maybe tip the SCA to close the door behind you, if you're in a sleeper. What's the conductor going to do, if he even sees you leave the train?

Ooo, ooo, can I guess? Lessee, call CSX and tell them they have a trespasser on their main line! Reading this thread... oh, CSX had a crew out there on scene already. Hmm, now how does CSX feel about trespassers? I'm sure da googols can tell me....

I doubt that a large corporation like CSX has feelings. In any case, a stopped train isn't a high security prison. There aren't railroad bulls every 50 feet (are railroad police even called "bulls" anymore?) How long would it take a CSX person to notice you, then call CSX? How long after that would it take for security to appear? What powers do they have in Virginia off railroad property? How likely would they be to do anything? People constantly trespass on railroad property with impunity, that's why so many trespassers die and are injured every year.

Me, I wouldn't worry about CSX or the Amtrak conductor if I bolted from a train. I'd be worried about getting lost in the dark in an area I didn't know, and trespassing on some private individual's land. I would think that you'd be much more likely to be shot at by an alarmed homeowner than arrested by railroad police. I personally am unfamiliar with the area where the train was stopped, and don't know what the surrounding landscape looks like (suburbs? farms? the Great Dismal Swamp?), so I might be over dramatizing the situation.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Of course if you decide to bail from a stopped train and you still have some traveling to do on it, you will also have some fast and hard explaining to do when you try to get back on.

 

[Nathanael]

Cutting the car and moving it to a siding might have been a complicated and slow operation, but it should have taken less than 12 hours. What was going on here? Once it was identified that the dining car wouldn't roll, it should have been possible to (a) bring out a second crew to mind the passengers in the sleepers, (b) move the front half of the train to Richmond Staples Mill, © bring the locomotive back to pull the dining car out of the way, (d) bring the locomotives back to move the back half of the train to Richmond Staples Mill. And that's assuming there are no other locomotives available; if CSX was able to provide an engine to drag the disabled car, this could go faster. This process could not possibly take 12 hours.

The only conclusion I can think of is that there's a real organizational problem, either at Amtrak or at CSX or between the two companies, which prevented anyone from getting *permission* to do this for 12 hours.

 

[nferr]

I've been stuck on an Amtrak train for 12 hours in a sleeper. Jeez, it's not torture. I read, took naps, etc. Stuff happens when you travel.

It's not torture, but people do have schedules to keep, and a twelve hour delay can easily throw that out the window.

Happens with all kinds of travel. Public or private. People just have to stay home if they expect to never have a delay. I guess it's unheard of for your car to break down on a trip.

 

[AlanB]

No, I don't think asking the conductor's permission is the right way to do it. He's just going to say no. If you're bailing, just take your bag and leave, not saying a word to anyone. Maybe tip the SCA to close the door behind you, if you're in a sleeper. What's the conductor going to do, if he even sees you leave the train?

Ooo, ooo, can I guess? Lessee, call CSX and tell them they have a trespasser on their main line! Reading this thread... oh, CSX had a crew out there on scene already. Hmm, now how does CSX feel about trespassers? I'm sure da googols can tell me....

I doubt that a large corporation like CSX has feelings. In any case, a stopped train isn't a high security prison. There aren't railroad bulls every 50 feet (are railroad police even called "bulls" anymore?) How long would it take a CSX person to notice you, then call CSX? How long after that would it take for security to appear? What powers do they have in Virginia off railroad property? How likely would they be to do anything? People constantly trespass on railroad property with impunity, that's why so many trespassers die and are injured every year.
Me, I wouldn't worry about CSX or the Amtrak conductor if I bolted from a train. I'd be worried about getting lost in the dark in an area I didn't know, and trespassing on some private individual's land. I would think that you'd be much more likely to be shot at by an alarmed homeowner than arrested by railroad police. I personally am unfamiliar with the area where the train was stopped, and don't know what the surrounding landscape looks like (suburbs? farms? the Great Dismal Swamp?), so I might be over dramatizing the situation.

Putting aside the trespassing issue, opening the door would be a violation of Federal law. It is part of the emergency system for the car; so just like pulling the emergency brake cord when no emergency exists, opening the door when there is no emergency could land you in a Federal Pen.

And being stuck on a train with lights, water, AC, & toilets; contrary to what some believe, is not an emergency.

 

[jebr]

I've been stuck on an Amtrak train for 12 hours in a sleeper. Jeez, it's not torture. I read, took naps, etc. Stuff happens when you travel.

It's not torture, but people do have schedules to keep, and a twelve hour delay can easily throw that out the window.

Happens with all kinds of travel. Public or private. People just have to stay home if they expect to never have a delay. I guess it's unheard of for your car to break down on a trip.

It's not unheard of. But if I need to be somewhere and my car breaks down, I can bring it into the shop, have them start their eval, and either use their loaner car or rent a car on my own and be back on the road in a couple hours.

A couple hours of delay would be inconvenient but acceptable occasionally. A twelve-hour delay while being trapped on the train (or any mode of transportation) is not. (Yes, even a twelve-hour delay while at the station would be more acceptable, as people who need to be somewhere ASAP could get a taxi or rent a car if need be, and Amtrak could work on getting replacement buses if that was a faster option.)

 

[jis]

Putting aside the trespassing issue, opening the door would be a violation of Federal law. It is part of the emergency system for the car; so just like pulling the emergency brake cord when no emergency exists, opening the door when there is no emergency could land you in a Federal Pen.

It will depend on the exact circumstances. WMATA for example has gained such notoriety that when a WMATA trains stalls out in the open, people just walking away from them after a while seems unfortunately to be almost a norm. I am not aware of many that have really got in any serious trouble over such. Bigger danger is getting electrocuted than landing up in any Pen I think.

After the MNRR accident near Bridgeport, I know of several acquaintances who were on one of the trains who simply called their family to come by and pick them up, and when they came they just walked off the train and left. As a matter of cat that time when I got stuck on an Amtrak Regional due to a Trespasser hit, at least half a dozen folks on that train asked the conductor to let them leave, which the Conductor had no objection to apparently. Their folks showed up from somewhere and they were off well before even the first emergency transfers to another train took place.

But I would hasten to add that I *do not* recommend anyone trying to pull such stunts. But the fact of life is that it happens more often than one imagines.

 

[calwatch]

WMATA has been known for providing little to no information on board, though. On Amtrak, you are more likely to have a foamer with a scanner available for information, even if the conductor or official personnel are less likely to provide it. I'm sure people were walking around and maybe even a door or two were open for fresh air, but probably there were stern warnings given to passengers not to leave that kept everyone on board.

 

[jis]

91(17) stalled in Maryland and was rescued by a passing Regional which took on its 145 or so passengers and took them to WAS. All this was done before the emergency rescue folks from the local MD county arrived. They were astounded to find an empty train. That is the sort of rescue that is more typical of the NEC in my experience.

Naturally this was a world apart from another incident which started this thread. but that was south of WAS.

Apparently the consist was finally dragged to WAS. I am not sure how the passengers were accommodated. but at least they did not get to roast in their train in a heat wave with HEP having failed.

See: http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-76701189/

 

[AlanB]

Based upon a sighting by an OTOL member, waiting in DC for train #125, it appears that 91 was pulled to WAS by a MARC engine. There the pax were put back onboard to finish their journey.

No word on whether that engine left a mark on the Amtrak train. :lol:

And it was 125 that rescued the 91 pax, which delayed 125 by more than a hour, while the OTOL group was waiting in Richmond for that train so that we could get to Norfolk.

 

[Big Iron]

Based upon a sighting by an OTOL member, waiting in DC for train #125, it appears that 91 was pulled to WAS by a MARC engine. There the pax were put back onboard to finish their journey.
No word on whether that engine left a mark on the Amtrak train. :lol:

And it was 125 that rescued the 91 pax, which delayed 125 by more than a hour, while the OTOL group was waiting in Richmond for that train so that we could get to Norfolk.

Did you ride the Tide while in Norfolk?

 

[AlanB]

Did you ride the Tide while in Norfolk?

Yup!

 

[afigg]

91(17) stalled in Maryland and was rescued by a passing Regional which took on its 145 or so passengers and took them to WAS.

Has not been a good couple of weeks for the Silver Star. 91(17) got stuck again for hours further south and reportedly ended up bypassing Tampa with bustitutions.
I don't see any info on what the mechanical problem was on the NEC, whether it was the electric locomotive or one of the cars in the consist.

 

[AlanB]

I don't see any info on what the mechanical problem was on the NEC, whether it was the electric locomotive or one of the cars in the consist.

Well again, since one of the guys on the OTOL fest with me reported seeing a MARC engine on the front of 91 yesterday has he boarded 125 in DC, I'd say that it's a very safe bet that the issue was with the engine. Also reports of no HEP lend further credence to that idea.

 

[OBS]

With this heat, engines drop like flies.

 

[pennyk]

My Silver Meteor was delayed yesterday because 83, I think, had engine problems south of BAL. We are due in Orlando about 2 hours late, however I predict it will be later.

 

[jis]

48(19) was posted for an arrival at NYP over 5 hours behind schedule yesterday. Noticed when I passed through NYP on the way back from from NY.

 

[afigg]

With this heat, engines drop like flies.

Would be interesting to get a count of how many of the electric locomotives broke down this past week on the NEC during the heat wave. I think there were at least a couple with Thursday being a bad day on the NEC. If the ACS-64s were further along in their testing, could have been a good time to do daytime test runs of the ACS-64 pulling 10-12 cars to see how well it holds up in 95+ degree sauna bath conditions.

 

[jis]

What I find intriguing is that for example the Bombardier supplied (and manufactured locally based on Bombardier design) electric engines in India (Classes WAP-5, WAG-9, WAP-7) operate day in and day out at temperatures way above 95 deg with no problem, and yet the engines at Amtrak have all sorts of problems. Must have something to do with how they are spec'ed rather than any shortcomings of the underlying technology.

For that matter, the Bombardier supplied ALP46s and ALP45DPs at NJT seem to be having relatively few problem this summer.

 

[jis]

The Diner that caused the problems on Silver Star leading to 14 hour delay is now repaired and back in service.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/business/local/amtrak-puts-balky-dining-car-back-in-service/article_8f93df4c-c0f2-5c04-b4ea-6eaec6853bfb.html