Schumer Proposes 'No-Ride List' for Amtrak Trains

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I don't think this would be a very effective process, especially given the ease of boarding a train when it arrives and buying your ticket the day of/onboard. Amtrak conductors are not in the business of checking for legitimacy of IDs (aside from the picture and name matching the ticket AFAIK), or of checking for names against some kind of mobile national database. I'd like to see how this senator proposes to fund such a major system, too.

What's next? Receiving information about a potential subway strike? Good luck ticketing and tracking every subway rider in a major city, senator...
 
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As was discussed elsewhere, we need the security standing outside by bridges and structures that can be targets. I see little value in a bill like this other than grandstanding and pure hype. As stated, here come the pat downs.
 
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how is this going to make us safer? like said once airborn the real threat to a airplane comes from inside. For a train how many grade crossing accidents are there in a year in the USA alone. How many grade crossings in the USA alone? How you propose to stop a terrorist from stopping a tanker truck on the tracks for a train to run into or a car full of explosives on the tracks Hmmmmmmmmmm.
 
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Hope this is nothing more than pure political pandering by Sen. Schumer and nothing comes of it. The idea is a pretty stupid one. Are we going to have no ride lists for LIRR, NJ Transit, Metro-North? The commuter services with packed trains at rush hours carry far more passengers than Amtrak. What about NYC Subway? Where does it stop?

For that matter, if hijacking is the concern, how about Greyhound, Megabus, or any other intercity bus service? With a bus, a terrorist could conceivably hijack a bus and drive it into a building. Rather hard to do that with a train. Of course, if that is the goal, would be easier to rent or hijack a truck and crash it into something.
 
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OlympianHiawatha said:
We have to remember Schumer is an EXTREME Liberal who wants to get the Government involved in EVERY aspect of our daily lives.
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Plus he loves publicity. One blogger I read refers to him as Chuck "I'd walk a mile for a camera" Schumer.

(You've got to be old like me to remember the old Camel cigarette slogan.)
 
OlympianHiawatha said:
We have to remember Schumer is an EXTREME Liberal who wants to get the Government involved in EVERY aspect of our daily lives.
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Just because extreme conservatives may want government out of every aspect of your daily life doesn't mean extreme liberals want government in every aspect of your daily life. (Incidentally, I think a person who wants government in no aspect of your daily life would be an extreme libertarian or an anarchist.) Most of us scary, scary liberals want reasonable restrictions on government interference in our lives as well. I'm a socialist, and I think many instances of government involvement in our lives are reprehensible-- for example, internet censorship, restrictions on access to contraceptives, and (bringing this back on topic) both the current extrajudicial no-fly list and any proposed no-ride list for Amtrak.
 
TransitGeek said:
Just because extreme conservatives may want government out of every aspect of your daily life doesn't mean extreme liberals want government in every aspect of your daily life. (Incidentally, I think a person who wants government in no aspect of your daily life would be an extreme libertarian or an anarchist.) Most of us scary, scary liberals want reasonable restrictions on government interference in our lives as well. I'm a socialist, and I think many instances of government involvement in our lives are reprehensible-- for example, internet censorship, restrictions on access to contraceptives, and (bringing this back on topic) both the current extrajudicial no-fly list and any proposed no-ride list for Amtrak.
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Now, now. Don't confuse people with reality.
 
IMHO Schumer has always been a blow hard who will say anything that he thinks will glean him some attention. It does not have to make sense, as long as it draws attention to his "greatness" :) Ergo.....
 
Amtrak already matches names from reservations to various security lists. One of the reasons that conductors can no longer sell tickets on the NEC, is that they want the advance booking so that they can wash your name against those lists. So setting up a "no ride" list wouldn't be all that hard and it probably wouldn't require that much work to setup things to deny the sale if you are on the list. Frankly, this really isn't all that big of a deal for Amtrak to do.

That said, it's all fluff and will do little to make Amtrak safer. It's a feel good measure to make the public feel good that Government is doing something to protect them.
 
One of the reasons that conductors can no longer sell tickets on the NEC, is that they want the advance booking so that they can wash your name against those lists.
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I'd assume that is one of the minor reasons. Maybe I should state that as "I'd like to believe that is one of the minor reasons".

Glad to see that only the NorthEast Corridor needs to be protected ;)

I can't fathom a way for Amtrak to stop someone from boarding the Empire Builder at Podunk, MN/ND/MT/ID/WA per an ID restriction list.

How can this system work against fake IDs? We can't even create a system to properly vet green cards in the USA, and green cards are issued from a national agency. IDs are state-based, making the issue of vetting them at least 50 times more complex. Amtrak can't afford to run a consistent & competitive service as it stands; they can't afford any extra bogus expenses.

This idiot senator is expecting his call for more "security theater" to garner him greater political standing. The sad thing is that it probably will. What's that expression? "A person may be smart, but people are always stupid"? Quite apropos.
 
Kevin L. said:
One of the reasons that conductors can no longer sell tickets on the NEC, is that they want the advance booking so that they can wash your name against those lists.
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I'd assume that is one of the minor reasons. Maybe I should state that as "I'd like to believe that is one of the minor reasons".

Glad to see that only the NorthEast Corridor needs to be protected ;)

I can't fathom a way for Amtrak to stop someone from boarding the Empire Builder at Podunk, MN/ND/MT/ID/WA per an ID restriction list.

How can this system work against fake IDs? We can't even create a system to properly vet green cards in the USA, and green cards are issued from a national agency. IDs are state-based, making the issue of vetting them at least 50 times more complex. Amtrak can't afford to run a consistent & competitive service as it stands; they can't afford any extra bogus expenses.

This idiot senator is expecting his call for more "security theater" to garner him greater political standing. The sad thing is that it probably will. What's that expression? "A person may be smart, but people are always stupid"? Quite apropos.
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Again, you cannot board the Empire Builder without at least a reservation. So your name would be washed against the list, even if the conductor has to hand cut the ticket once you board.

Regarding the ID issue, that's a horse of a different color. Which is why I said that any such list is just theatre; it's not going to do anything. Someone on the list and determined to do harm will just use a fake id with a matching name that's not on the list to buy their ticket. And there is nothing that Amtrak can do to stop that.

This entire program to spot check ID's onboard is just theatrics too. The conductors have received no training on spotting fake ID's and even if they had, it would still be useless and here's why. You used to be able to cross the border with Canada using nothing more than your birth certificate and your driver's license. We stopped allowing that because trained US Border agents couldn't always spot fake driver's licenses. And they look at them all day long, get extensive training, and have access to computers. And they still got fooled at times. What hope does an Amtrak conductor have? None!
 
One additional issue is that one does not have to a passenger on-board a train in order to derail that train. There are lots of ways to derail a train with only dealing with its track.
 
AlanB said:
Again, you cannot board the Empire Builder without at least a reservation. So your name would be washed against the list, even if the conductor has to hand cut the ticket once you board.
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The reality is you can board virtually any train in the system, from nearly any station, without anything.

In only a few instances do they ever check for tickets/reservations/etc. before you're allowed on the train. When's the last time you saw anybody check for valid tickets before someone boarded a NYP-bound train in Newark?
 
The reason I booked my trip this year on Amtrak was I saw this type of stuff coming leading to installing of TSA at Amtrak. Making my first trip on Amtrak a once in a life time opportunity because if they TSA it I will no longer take Amtrak either.

I knew once Osama was dead they would come up with a new threat to scare more people into giving away more of our liberties and freedoms. Though I haven't seen the intelegence I wonder if passenger trains were even mentioned at all or was it just "trains", if it was more than likely they meant cargo trains.

Whether cargo or passenger train how would one isolate them to make it secure? Unlike airports there is no way to isolate people from gaining access to the train and a fence across the tracks at the station would kind of mess with the train entering the station. What about unmanned Amtrak stations? Will they force Amtrak to do away with unmanned stations? What about big stations like "Grand Central Station"? Will they shut them down and make amtrak build new stations with only one entrance and exit or simply weld doors shut to make them one way in one way out to add searches?

What's next? Will our ability and freedom to travel unhindered from state to state by car or on foot be in jeapordy? Will we build gates at each states boarder and ask people "Do you have your travel papers"? Or the more fitting "Haben Sie Ihre Reisepapiere".
 
Will they shut them down and make amtrak build new stations with only one entrance and exit or simply weld doors shut to make them one way in one way out to add searches?
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An effort which would ironically aid terrorist attempts. Every train station will become like the infamous Coconut Grove nightclub during a disaster.

Making my first trip on Amtrak a once in a life time opportunity because if they TSA it I will no longer take Amtrak either.
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Agreed. My complaints about Amtrak are many, but one of the things I greatly praise Amtrak for is its lack of invasive security & generous luggage provisions. (Luggage which doesn't have to be x-rayed, nor opened up and rifled through)

I was amazed when I made my first Amtrak trip 3 years ago, via Union Station DC, and didn't even have to go through so much as a metal detector. That is how travel should be. Oh, and even without all the RapiScan scanners to "ensure my safety", I was not caught up in a terrorist plot during my time on Amtrak. I really want to believe that the average Americans shown as buying into Security Theater are just shills, but I know that is not true; many people believe in that rot in earnest. It boggles the brain.
 
It's just more security theater. I don't feel a bit safer for all the theater at the airports. Actually, I feel violated. I just flew internationally and noted a few things. If you are flying internationally, at least at LAX, you did not have to go through the new X-ray screening. We were supposed to fly American Airlines to LAX from Pittsburgh, but our first flight never arrived, so they put us on Delta. The American Airlines gates are at the same place as the QUANTAS gate, so we would not have had to go through secondary screening before we took the flight to Brisbane. Coming in on Delta, we had to go to a different terminal, so we had to walk to the AA/QUANTAS terminal. Since we were flying internationally, we went through different screening that didn't include the new x-ray machines. When we returned from Auckland three weeks later, we went through Customs and then had to go through the same screening as anyone flying within the US.

We went through screening in Australia and New Zealand, but it was more of the older style US screening, metal detector and occasional wanding was pretty much it. It was so much nicer traveling overseas than it is here in the US.

I don't think it's possible to screen well for Amtrak for many of the same reasons others have mentioned before in this thread. We very much have enjoyed the Amtrak experience, and one of the things we have enjoyed most is not having to feel as if we are considered guilty as soon as we enter the train station, which is sort of the way you are treated at the airports here in the US. We are off on another Amtrak trip to get to the Grand Tetons and Yellowstone in about four weeks, and I'm hoping to enjoy the experience as much as in the past. I would hate to see them ruin train travel the way they have ruined plane travel. It's not only the stupidly-done security, but just so many other decisions that airlines here have made over the years to make the flying experience so infuriating.
 
Tumbleweed said:
I truly hope someone with authority in AMTRAK is reading this, and also I hope a few Congresspeople are paying attention......
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I'm pretty positive that they both have better, more productive things to do during the workday than read an internet forum...
 
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