RFP released for 35 Next Gen Locomotives

[Caesar La Rock]

Cummins engines for the most part are pretty reliable in heavy duty transit buses and even over the road coaches, like what Greyhound uses. What kills those engines is all the EPA junk they stuff into them. I have a feeling the engines will do alright, of course maybe I'm speaking too soon or I'm too optimistic about it.

 

[MattW]

I'm still waiting for Amtrak to make a move here either by requiring high-speed service so as to not congest the corridor, or increasing the track-usage charge to MARC thus offsetting any cost advantage.

 

[keelhauled]

Well MARC already uses diesels on the corridor, so I can't imagine any possible justification for Amtrak to suddenly increase their fees.

 

[jis]

Besides the new engines that they are getting are 125mph capable. How much higher speed do you want when Amtrak's own trains, other than the Acelas cannot go any faster?

 

[MattW]

There's a huge difference between a 125mph capable diesel and 125mph capable electric. Unless Siemens has some fancy new technological breakthrough no one knows about, they'll still accelerate like slugs and may not even make track speed between some stops on a commuter schedule.

 

[jis]

You can just keep dreaming about Amtrak deciding to charge more for slower trains. That is completely absurd to start with when it takes more expensive maintenance to keep the tracks suitable for higher speed operations. That just is not going to happen. If anything trains willg et slowed down to accommodate local traffic as has happened in NJ.

Besides it is the NEC Commission that will get to decide such things if things proceed the way they are, and not Amtrak unilaterally.

 

[west point]

Since the NEC commission is often cited where are the published rates for use of one agency's facilities by another?. Examples so what does Amtrak pay for MNRR's track and power ?, SEPTA pay Amtrak and Amtrak pay SEPTA . Amtrak pay LIRR for DC current ? And so forth ?.

 

[jis]

They currently aren't published and the information is relatively hard to come by unless you are an insider.

 

[neroden]

Again the cost of electricity needs careful analysis. If MARC got ACS-64s their stop and go operations could have a lot of regenerative braking credits. Granted we do not know if their electric costs include credits for regeneration.

I've been told that Amtrak uses an obsolete and grossly inaccurate "guesstimate" method of charging for electricity, based on miles or hours or something, having absolutely nothing to do with actual electricity usage. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Similar problems are happening with streetlights, which are generally not metered. Cities have had to go through complex negotiations to get credit from the electric utility for using more energy-efficient streetlights. (And we're talking huge differences, cutting the electric use to 1/20 of what it was before.)

This should be fixed. Locomotives are capable of metering electricity usage; an adjustment would have to be made for "before the meter" electricity losses in the locomotive, but it would be a lot better than what's going on now.

 

[Andrew]

Amtrak has ordered 32 of these locomotives.

Should they order more options, how would the additional 225 locomotives get paid for?

 

[Paulus]

Amtrak has ordered 32 of these locomotives.

Should they order more options, how would the additional 225 locomotives get paid for?

Amtrak hasn't ordered any of them. Individual states have.

 

[Andrew]

Amtrak has ordered 32 of these locomotives.

Should they order more options, how would the additional 225 locomotives get paid for?

Amtrak hasn't ordered any of them. Individual states have.

So maybe states, such as Illinois, will chip in to fund future locomotives and Nippon coaches...

Amtrak ordered the Charger locomotives in early 2014. How long until they enter revenue service? The reason why I ask is because it is my understanding that the oldest locomotives they will replace will have entered revenue service in 1991.

 

[jis]

Amtrak did not order Charger locomotives. The states did, and oh yeah, so did AAF. But not Amtrak

 

[Andrew]

Amtrak did not order Charger locomotives. The states did, and oh yeah, so did AAF. But not Amtrak

I wonder if the additional Charger option locomotives will get ordered, or if another locomotive option will get chosen instead.

 

[cirdan]

Amtrak did not order Charger locomotives. The states did, and oh yeah, so did AAF. But not Amtrak

I wonder if the additional Charger option locomotives will get ordered, or if another locomotive option will get chosen instead.

I guess Amtrak will be watching the performance and reliability of these locomotives very closely.

If they perform to satisfaction, the odds would definitely be in favor of a follow-up order.

I assume Siemens is fully aware of this and will be doing everything possible to make sure they are good locomotives.

But the real proof of the pudding is in the eating, and we won't know about that until expereience has actually been gathered.

 

[Andrew]

Amtrak did not order Charger locomotives. The states did, and oh yeah, so did AAF. But not Amtrak

I wonder if the additional Charger option locomotives will get ordered, or if another locomotive option will get chosen instead.

I guess Amtrak will be watching the performance and reliability of these locomotives very closely.

If they perform to satisfaction, the odds would definitely be in favor of a follow-up order.

I assume Siemens is fully aware of this and will be doing everything possible to make sure they are good locomotives.

But the real proof of the pudding is in the eating, and we won't know about that until expereience has actually been gathered.

We will know in the not too distant future how these things work out!

If the Charger locomotive does not live up to expectations, then I expect Bombardier and EMD to compete for the other 225 locomotives. (A DM locomotive order will also get issued, since Amtrak's current DM locomotives that are used in New York State entered service in 1995).

 

[afigg]

On the Next Generation Pool Committee website, found this short February, 2015 viewgraph presentation on the status of the Siemens Charger contract with renderings and planned delivery schedule. And option order size plans for Caltrans and IDOT.

In the August 2015 Activities report under the Section 305 Executive Board page, it states that the order with options is now at 47 units. Since Maryland has not yet gotten final approval from whatever board MdDOT was waiting on, the 47 units likely does not include the 8 Chargers MARC wants to purchase. I would expect the All Aboard Florida buy is also not part of the joint state order.

 

[jis]

The AAF order is not part of the state order. What AAF has ordered is really an Americanized Viaggio train set which includes two Charger derived power heads for each set together with the requisite number of Viaggio Comfort derived cars. I suspect the power heads will be very similar to the Chargers delivered to the states but aesthetically they may look different beyond just a different livery.

Think of it this way.... the states have a turnkey order for a bunch of locomotives whereas AAF has an order for a bunch of integrated train sets. I suspect Siemens will go out of its way to put its best foot forward to make those train sets look real good and perform really well, both technically, and also in terms of passenger comfort and amenities. They are going to be Siemens' showcase for the North American market.

 

[Andrew]

That presentation says that IDOT is ordering another 12 option locomotives, and Caltrans 14 option locomotives, so I suppose these options are in addition to the 35 that were previously ordered?

And MARC's potential order would add to these options?

Also, what does Caltran's locomotive look taller near the passenger coach?

 

[WoodyinNYC]

...

Also, why does Caltran's locomotive look taller near the passenger coach?

Note that the photos we see are not to the same scale. The left photo is locomotive only, while the right photo, of the Caltrans model, includes a slice of the following car. The Chargers are designed to work for both single-level trains and the taller bi-level trains. The slope on the roof of the loco is for aerodynamic purposes, so the air flowing over the single-level Charger goes up and over the following bi-level car, and doesn't slam into the front of it.

You did notice an amusing little something: As shown, the Midwest and Caltrans locomotives are different in details beyond the paint jobs. The doors, the window shapes and placement, and even the undercar treatments are all a bit different. I hope those assorted differences didn't drive up the cost too much.

I'd expected modifications for the engines to pull Washington State's Talgos, which have quite a different profile from the Midwest and Cali bi-levels. But why so many differences between the Midwest and Cali locos I have no idea.

 

[afigg]

That presentation says that IDOT is ordering another 12 option locomotives, and Caltrans 14 option locomotives, so I suppose these options are in addition to the 35 that were previously ordered?

And MARC's potential order would add to these options?

If there are 47 units ordered through the joint state purchase contract, then, yes, option orders have been placed. Whether by Caltrans or IDOT, don't know. The info may be available in Caltrans and IDOT public documents for board meetings, agenda, presentations, etc.

 

[Andrew]

I bet at least Metro North or both Metro North and the Long Island Rail Road will end up procuring Charger locomotives--and Charger Dual Mode Locomotives--in the not too distant future.

With expected double decker coach orders by Metro North, I wonder if the locomotives Metro North ends up ordering will have taller roofs.

 

[jis]

The MNRR double decker will be at most 14' 6' tall just like the LIRR C3s or the NJT MLVs. So there is no reason for the engines to be any taller than normal. In any case they cannot be more that 14' 6" tall.

 

[Andrew]

I think the MLV's have a better chance of getting ordered than the C3's.

The Spirit locomotive is another potential locomotive to order.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Friday, October 02, 2015

Cummins completes first QSK95 rail engineWritten by Keith Barrow

CUMMINS has dispatched its first production QSK95 diesel engine for the rail market to Siemens' plant in Sacramento, California, where it will be fitted into a 200km/h Charger diesel locomotive.

Update from the International Railway Journal. Pretty routine, I guess, but always good not to hear that something failed a crash test or whatever.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/locomotives/cummins-completes-first-qsk95-rail-engine.html?channel=528

Hope the link works.