Opportunities Lost for Sales in the Cafe/Lounge Cars?

[Dakota 400]

My recent Amtrak experience is aboard the Crescent, Sunset Limited, and Southwest Chief.

"Happy Hour" times, just before Noon and sometime after and the times of 4:00 P.M. to 7:30 P.M., often seemed to me to be the times when the Cafe/Lounge Car Attendants took their break. For those of us who would enjoy a pre-lunch or pre-dinner drink or two, such closings are not guest friendly at that time. The Crescent out of Washington was particularly notable inasmuch as the Attendant was present in the Car, but could not begin service until after the Potamac River had been crossed. (She said she really should not have started as soon as she did; the train had not yet stopped at Alexandria.) But, there was a long line of customers, including me, waiting for her to open.

Granted, on all 3 trains, a PA announcement was made by the Attendant that she was soon going to close for her break. And, I responded accordingly. But, the timing was not what I would have chosen. Yes, I could and did purchase what I wanted prior to my lunch/dinner reservations, when I was so informed.

The situation on the Crescent upon leaving Washington, Southbound, was particularly irritating. Power had been restored for some time and a long line had formed soon after the train left the station. Yet, the Attendant could/would not begin service until nearing Alexandria.

I could have left the line--with a loss of a sale for Amtrak.

But, what is the reason for such a customer unfriendly situation? It is my understanding that increased revenues from the Dining Cars and Cafe/Lounge Cars is needed. It just seems to me that opportunities to increase such revenues are being wasted.

Or, am I missing something in the total picture?

I would appreciate learning what others think.

 

[gswager]

The attendants are probably eating their meals in dining car. That's why they're taking break, plus they are working extremely long hours.

 

[OBS]

The reason for not opening til Alx has more to do with the Conductor's orders than anything else...

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

At busy stops the Cafe often closes because Conductors do not want new arrivals wandering about before the ticket lift is completed.

 

[Anderson]

The rule seems to be that between NWK-NYP-[NRO] and WAS-ALX-[NCR], the food service cars close. The diner may get packed open a bit early for sleeper passengers out of WAS, for example, but there's a tendency to keep those cars closed for the bit around NYP to deal with ticket processing and the like.

 

[chakk]

I remember decades ago when some state(s) on B&O's Capitol Limited route were "dry" and the lounge car attendant would alert passengers to purchase their refill before the train crissed into the dry state.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Steve4031]

That still happens. There are some places where it's illegal to serve alcohol before non. There are some places im illinois and minnesota iirc.

 

[andersone]

I remember the Eagle or some other train to Dallas in the early 90's,,,,

Seems as though there were dry counties in Texas,, and the attendant actually watched for landmarks to start / end liquor sales. One time there was even a local sheriff on board,,,

made it rather a game for the staff

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I remember the Eagle or some other train to Dallas in the early 90's,,,,

Seems as though there were dry counties in Texas,, and the attendant actually watched for landmarks to start / end liquor sales. One time there was even a local sheriff on board,,,

made it rather a game for the staff

Now I am curious. Does Amtrak, being a quasi-Federal entity get an exemption regarding service in dry counties? I have never heard any announcements about liquor sales being suspended or seen it done. I know airlines serve continuously even if they are over the airspace of a dry area.

 

[Triley]

I remember the Eagle or some other train to Dallas in the early 90's,,,,

Seems as though there were dry counties in Texas,, and the attendant actually watched for landmarks to start / end liquor sales. One time there was even a local sheriff on board,,,

made it rather a game for the staff

Now I am curious. Does Amtrak, being a quasi-Federal entity get an exemption regarding service in dry counties? I have never heard any announcements about liquor sales being suspended or seen it done. I know airlines serve continuously even if they are over the airspace of a dry area.

I would assume not. Our service manual has a list of the liquor laws for every stay, and we are suppose to follow them. So I would assume that if I must follow the state's laws, I'd have to follow any county laws regarding being a dry county as well. But I may very well be wrong on this.

 

[BCL]

I remember the Eagle or some other train to Dallas in the early 90's,,,,

Seems as though there were dry counties in Texas,, and the attendant actually watched for landmarks to start / end liquor sales. One time there was even a local sheriff on board,,,

made it rather a game for the staff

Now I am curious. Does Amtrak, being a quasi-Federal entity get an exemption regarding service in dry counties? I have never heard any announcements about liquor sales being suspended or seen it done. I know airlines serve continuously even if they are over the airspace of a dry area.

I heard that they do get cut off through Utah. Not that state agents are staking out trains for violations or that they would even know.

 

[William W.]

States have no jurisdiction over federal airspace, so the airlines don't have to follow any state regulations when in the air.

I'm surprised that Amtrak would have to deal with local and state liquor laws. It's a federal entity, and I'm pretty sure that the states' power over existing railroads is somewhat limited where compared to the feds.

 

[FriskyFL]

On our last trip on 98, we were unable to order wine with our dinner - it was a Sunday and we had already crossed into Georgia, we were told no sales on Sunday. I didn't recall that was the case statewide?

 

[Triley]

On our last trip on 98, we were unable to order wine with our dinner - it was a Sunday and we had already crossed into Georgia, we were told no sales on Sunday. I didn't recall that was the case statewide?

That is indeed what my service manual says. No restrictions Monday-Saturday, or Election Day. Sunday is no sales. And that some localities may restrict sales on Christmas. Now that would be a difficult one to try and enforce.

 

[BCL]

States have no jurisdiction over federal airspace, so the airlines don't have to follow any state regulations when in the air.

I'm surprised that Amtrak would have to deal with local and state liquor laws. It's a federal entity, and I'm pretty sure that the states' power over existing railroads is somewhat limited where compared to the feds.

Amtrak is quasi-governmental.

Local authorities have certain powers. They could probably shut down a railroad segment for a criminal investigation or a manhunt. However, they wouldn't be able to keep out railroad police that have certain authority under most state laws. Also - Amtrak Police are nominally considered federal law enforcement and/or railroad police. That would get interesting depending on state law. I think California gives them authority to enforce state/local laws as railroad police, but federal police are another matter. Even FBI agents need local permission to arrest for state laws unless they're working directly with local law enforcement.

I've previously mentioned that Utah has some strict laws against the transport of personal alcohol through the state. Most people don't have commercial transport licenses. However, I'd guess that personal transport on Amtrak isn't a high priority for Utah unless someone is getting off there.

 

[neroden]

I'm surprised that Amtrak would have to deal with local and state liquor laws. It's a federal entity, and I'm pretty sure that the states' power over existing railroads is somewhat limited where compared to the feds.

Ancient rules dating to the 19th century, never changed.

 

[afigg]

I remember the Eagle or some other train to Dallas in the early 90's,,,,

Seems as though there were dry counties in Texas,, and the attendant actually watched for landmarks to start / end liquor sales. One time there was even a local sheriff on board,,,

made it rather a game for the staff

This could be automated (to a large extent) when the electronic Point of Sale systems are (finally) deployed. I would expect that the POS system will be be connected to the train GPS system and will also get location data from the train system WiFi data link. Add a database of the dry states, counties, local laws on alcohol sales by days of week. Then display no alcohol sales on the attendant's terminal when in dry counties and states and refuse to ring up the beer, wine, and/or spirits sale until the train exits the dry county/state.

It is software solution to a problem that doesn't really exist - have not read about Amtrak food sales attendants getting busted by local sheriffs - but I don't see why it could not be done. A potential future upgrade to the POS system software if it is not already in the specs.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Or tell the states that are dry to Join 2014 and get with the status quo. :blink:

( as I pop open a nice microbrew from portland)

I have had only a handfull of adult bevs on the train.

While Its not my bag ,If some one wants to spice-up there dinner in the diner with some wine whom am I to judge.

not only that but its next to impossable to enforce with sleepers and personal bevs in them.

Peter

 

[chakk]

I'm surprised that Amtrak would have to deal with local and state liquor laws. It's a federal entity, and I'm pretty sure that the states' power over existing railroads is somewhat limited where compared to the feds.

Ancient rules dating to the 19th century, never changed.

Are there still some towns where Amtrak trains must be preceded by an employee carrying a red flag so as not to scare the horses?

 

[George K]

Are there still some towns where Amtrak trains must be preceded by an employee carrying a red flag so as not to scare the horses?

On my trip on #6 last September, as we approached a town in Illinois (please, don't pronounce the "s"), the conductor got on the intercom and informed us that they had received notification that the town was not certain if their crossing gates were functioning. Accordingly, we would approach each crossing at 10 mph to be sure the gates descended.

If they did not, he said that they would stop the train and conductors would detrain and flag each crossing. I did not, however, see any horses. So, I guess the answer is yes and no. :giggle:

 

[Bob Dylan]

Nice post George, this happens in California too when tremors ( earthquakes to us!) happen and the signals go out!

 

[Barciur]

I remember the Eagle or some other train to Dallas in the early 90's,,,,

Seems as though there were dry counties in Texas,, and the attendant actually watched for landmarks to start / end liquor sales. One time there was even a local sheriff on board,,,

made it rather a game for the staff

Now I am curious. Does Amtrak, being a quasi-Federal entity get an exemption regarding service in dry counties? I have never heard any announcements about liquor sales being suspended or seen it done. I know airlines serve continuously even if they are over the airspace of a dry area.

The air space has international conventions as well - so for example, a German Lufthansa aircraft on the ground in New York cannot serve alcohol under 21, but as soon as the wheels are off the ground, if you're 16, you can legally get a beer.

The air carrier flies the flag of the nation the airline originates in.

The whole not serving in dry counties/states really makes no sense to me.

 

[Paulus]

Makes plenty sense. Would you suggest that Amtrak ought to put slots and video poker machines on its trains and simply ignore local laws to the contrary?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Makes plenty sense. Would you suggest that Amtrak ought to put slots and video poker machines on its trains and simply ignore local laws to the contrary?

How about putting a Still in the Baggae Car, running a little 'Shine and offering it for sale

 

[saturn04]

I have been on a train where we had to stop before we crossed because the signals were not working...conductor got out with flairs and stuff. That was on the MI Service.