Opportunities Lost for Sales in the Cafe/Lounge Cars?

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Paulus said:
Makes plenty sense. Would you suggest that Amtrak ought to put slots and video poker machines on its trains and simply ignore local laws to the contrary?
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Yes, since the Amtrak train is Federal, and pretty well sealed. Getting back to alcohol, the 21st Amendment was badly written and the interpretation of allowing every one-horse town along a route to enforce its laws, probably wouldn't survive a concerted challenge in court. It's pretty hard to argue with a straight face that a sealed train, especially when it doesn't make stops in a particular jurisdiction involves: "The transportation or importation into any State...use therein of intoxicating liquors." Unfortunately, I highly doubt Amtrak will challenge anything since it needs good friends in states sometimes just to keep the status quo! I'd expect someone like AAF to argue this. Unfortunately, with their STB exemption, they may not be able to argue an exemption to other local laws.
 
Paulus said:
Makes plenty sense. Would you suggest that Amtrak ought to put slots and video poker machines on its trains and simply ignore local laws to the contrary?
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I think the issue is more complex. It all depends on whether the train is sealed etc. There is zero reason to enforce a dry county law esp. if the train doesn't stop there, just going through. It makes no sense altogether.

On the other hand, enforcing Pennsylvania state laws on a Pennsylvanian/Keystone train would seem to make a lot of sense, since it makes a lot of stops there etc. But maybe not because it is a federal entity?

It is an interesting issue that perhaps needs more thinking.
 
Barciur said:
OlympianHiawatha said:
andersone said:
I remember the Eagle or some other train to Dallas in the early 90's,,,,

Seems as though there were dry counties in Texas,, and the attendant actually watched for landmarks to start / end liquor sales. One time there was even a local sheriff on board,,,

made it rather a game for the staff
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Now I am curious. Does Amtrak, being a quasi-Federal entity get an exemption regarding service in dry counties? I have never heard any announcements about liquor sales being suspended or seen it done. I know airlines serve continuously even if they are over the airspace of a dry area.
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The air space has international conventions as well - so for example, a German Lufthansa aircraft on the ground in New York cannot serve alcohol under 21, but as soon as the wheels are off the ground, if you're 16, you can legally get a beer.

The air carrier flies the flag of the nation the airline originates in.

The whole not serving in dry counties/states really makes no sense to me.
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I've never been carded on a plane before, haha. Even on domestic flights, and when on the ground.
 
William W. said:
Barciur said:
OlympianHiawatha said:
andersone said:
I remember the Eagle or some other train to Dallas in the early 90's,,,,

Seems as though there were dry counties in Texas,, and the attendant actually watched for landmarks to start / end liquor sales. One time there was even a local sheriff on board,,,

made it rather a game for the staff
Click to expand...
Now I am curious. Does Amtrak, being a quasi-Federal entity get an exemption regarding service in dry counties? I have never heard any announcements about liquor sales being suspended or seen it done. I know airlines serve continuously even if they are over the airspace of a dry area.
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The air space has international conventions as well - so for example, a German Lufthansa aircraft on the ground in New York cannot serve alcohol under 21, but as soon as the wheels are off the ground, if you're 16, you can legally get a beer.

The air carrier flies the flag of the nation the airline originates in.

The whole not serving in dry counties/states really makes no sense to me.
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I've never been carded on a plane before, haha. Even on domestic flights, and when on the ground.
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I've been carded on a plane when buying a beer. Still - it was because I paid with a credit card and their SOP is to ask for photo ID.
 
I never been carded for selecting the 55+ menu items at restaurants. Should I be offended. :( :p
 
A number of years ago before 1979, Amtrak's Lone Star was stopped in Kansas by Law Enforcement Officer's for selling alcoholic beverages on Sunday. The article was in a number of newspapers. Apparently some of the Amtrak employees were not aware of the restrictions.
 
jphjaxfl said:
A number of years ago before 1979, Amtrak's Lone Star was stopped in Kansas by Law Enforcement Officer's for selling alcoholic beverages on Sunday. The article was in a number of newspapers. Apparently some of the Amtrak employees were not aware of the restrictions.
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The one time I roda the Lone Star back in 1974 I recall a large placard beneath the service counter in the Lounge. It clearly stated liquor could not be served in Oklahoma because the entire state was technically dry. I recall in the morning just before we crossed into Oklahoma there was a literal stampede to buy Beer, Wine and Whiskey to "hold over" the few hours the train was in the Sooner Nation!
 
The Lounge attendant on the Lone Star used to announce that the Train would be going through Kansas which was dry on Sundays and Oklahoma which was dry ( and a Bootleggers Paradise,) everywhere as was said.

The whole State of Mississippi used to be dry also but I don't think the Sunset East ran then, it was in the days before Amtrak and the various Class Is that ran passenger trains had their own policies. I never went past Atlanta on the Southern Crescent so don't have specific info on those days!

Hard Liquor can't be Sold in Texas on Sundays, only Beer and Wine except in Licensed Bars and Cafes after Noon! Liquor stores are only allowed to be open Mon- Sat 9Am-9PM.

The Texas Eagle only sells alcohol after Noon on Sundays in the Lounge and Diner and of course none is Sold when the Cafe and Diner are Closed @ night! Lots to be said for taking your own Adult Beverages aboard when in Sleepers or discretely in Coach!
 
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Does Amtrak have to pay the state beer and alcohol taxes to the different states it passes through. When I worked for an airline, part of my job was paying the alcohol taxes to the different states we flew to or over. Example: if 10% of our total miles flown for the month was over Georgia, and their tax rate was 6%, then 6% of our beer and wine sales was paid to Georgia.
 
Amtrak doesn't pay taxes on the revenue from Trains! As a quasi- government corporation they are tax exempt when it comes to sales taxes on tickets, food and drink!

Unlike the Freight Railroads,they also don't pay taxes on rolling stock and tracks and ROW they own, but I'm not sure about fuel taxes on diesel and Real Estate like Stations, mechanical shops, crew bases, offices etc.??
 
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jimhudson said:
Amtrak doesn't pay taxes on the revenue from Trains! As a quasi- government corporation they are tax exempt when it comes to sales taxes on tickets, food and drink!

Unlike the Freight Railroads,they also don't pay taxes on rolling stock and tracks and ROW they own, but I'm not sure about fuel taxes on diesel and Real Estate like Stations, mechanical shops, crew bases, offices etc.??
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Menus claim that all applicable taxes are included.

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/938/664/California-Zephyr-Dining-Menu-eastbound-train.pdf

Prices are in U.S. currency and include all taxes.
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Who would want to drink in amtrak's bar car? It has the lighting of a walmart and the atmosphere of a high school cafeteria. Better idea: totally remodel the place with dim lighting, wood paneling, an actual bar with bar seating, cushioned chairs around the room, real drink glasses--none of this plastic stuff--and a real selection of drinks (many wines, beers, whiskeys, etc.) and with a tv or two...Have a girl coming around to the chairs taking orders and offering refills, etc. Make it snazzy. Like too many things with amtrak, the atmosphere is killing their product. Spice things up. Make it sexy.
 
And no, I will NOT pay $6 for Dewar's Scotch (as I did on #7 in September).

I will, however, pay $10 for a Macallan.
 
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British Capitalist said:
Who would want to drink in amtrak's bar car? It has the lighting of a walmart and the atmosphere of a high school cafeteria. Better idea: totally remodel the place with dim lighting, wood paneling, an actual bar with bar seating, cushioned chairs around the room, real drink glasses--none of this plastic stuff--and a real selection of drinks (many wines, beers, whiskeys, etc.) and with a tv or two...Have a girl coming around to the chairs taking orders and offering refills, etc. Make it snazzy. Like too many things with amtrak, the atmosphere is killing their product. Spice things up. Make it sexy.
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In other words make it look like a Lounge Car use to look like!
 
The Pacific Parlour Cars on the Coast Starlight come close to the ambience British Capitalist describes. Not completely, of course, but anyone who has never taken the CS should definitely try them out (after they return from their maintenance break).
 
Very unlikely that anything like this will ever appear again on public transport in the USA. Too many passengers would complain that they came to ride a train, not a Las Vegas show lounge. Others would say that they feel very uncomfortable sending (or bringing) their children into such a facility on their train to purchase pretzels and soft drinks. And I doubt that Amtrak is going to add an "adults-only" lounge car to any of their trains to "sexy" things up. Your better hope is to find some private company to sponsor separate trains, such as the Reno Fun Trains that run a couple times per week in the winter months between the SF Bay Area and Reno, Nevada.
 
As usual, I think we're missing the possibility for incremental improvements here. It might not be feasible in any way to "sexy" up the cafe, but sprucing up the decor a little when cars come in for an overhaul should be doable. It might also be worth looking into improving the alcohol selections somewhat, at least on some of the longer routes (i.e. having two tiers of liquor, like most bars do) since it seems quite plausible that Amtrak could pad their margins that way (and alcohol doesn't tend to go bad as fast as other F&B items).
 
British Capitalist said:
Who would want to drink in amtrak's bar car? It has the lighting of a walmart and the atmosphere of a high school cafeteria. Better idea: totally remodel the place with dim lighting, wood paneling, an actual bar with bar seating, cushioned chairs around the room, real drink glasses--none of this plastic stuff--and a real selection of drinks (many wines, beers, whiskeys, etc.) and with a tv or two...Have a girl coming around to the chairs taking orders and offering refills, etc. Make it snazzy. Like too many things with amtrak, the atmosphere is killing their product. Spice things up. Make it sexy.
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Why "Have a girl come around..." why not a guy?
 
The idea of top shelf liquors was tried in the NEC several years ago. We had 3 types of single malts, Oban, Craggenmore (sp), and Lagauvalin (sp). It was priced, IIRC, $2.00 more than the other liquor, and on the Acela it sold like crazy. Of course after a year or so, they were removed from menu (due to "supply issues").

I don't think you will find a lot of market on LD trains for upscale stuff. It has been tried in various forms several times, clientele is too cost conscious...
 
OBS said:
I don't think you will find a lot of market on LD trains for upscale stuff. It has been tried in various forms several times, clientele is too cost conscious...
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I wouldn't know; I'm generally in the market for upscale stuff, but I'm also a teetotaler...
 
Anderson said:
As usual, I think we're missing the possibility for incremental improvements here. It might not be feasible in any way to "sexy" up the cafe, but sprucing up the decor a little when cars come in for an overhaul should be doable. It might also be worth looking into improving the alcohol selections somewhat, at least on some of the longer routes (i.e. having two tiers of liquor, like most bars do) since it seems quite plausible that Amtrak could pad their margins that way (and alcohol doesn't tend to go bad as fast as other F&B items).
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My interest in starting this thread was the information that I have learned the Amtrak's management wanted to see revenue increases from the Cafe/Lounge Cars and Dining Cars.

I agree with this post that incremental improvements could be made on stocking the cars. (How does one run out of a white wine before the end of the first night's dinner service on the Sunset Limited?)

I observed for a fact that sales were lost because no attendant was on duty. Why not have one person that could be shared between the Dining and Lounge Cars? When the Lounge Car attendant is off duty, have this person cover the position. When that attendant returns, have that person assist in the Dining Car (or take a break).

Tp gain more revenue from their Lounge Cars, Amtrak needs to be better oriented towards what their guests want and when!
 
chakk said:
Very unlikely that anything like this will ever appear again on public transport in the USA. Too many passengers would complain that they came to ride a train, not a Las Vegas show lounge. Others would say that they feel very uncomfortable sending (or bringing) their children into such a facility on their train to purchase pretzels and soft drinks. And I doubt that Amtrak is going to add an "adults-only" lounge car to any of their trains to "sexy" things up. Your better hope is to find some private company to sponsor separate trains, such as the Reno Fun Trains that run a couple times per week in the winter months between the SF Bay Area and Reno, Nevada.
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Then Amtrak will continue to suffer. There is a large market of people like myself who would like to have and would be willing to pay for "nicer" services, amenities, drinks, experiences...Like most things in the US Amtrak is in a race to the bottom. There is no sophistication left in this country. What they should have is one cafe car and one lounge car. Cafe would be for snacks, non-alcoholic items, "family friendly", and the lounge would be for alcoholic offerings, so couples could go there and others could meet and mingle. I don't want to drink in a place that looks like a cold storage unit. In the super liners this could be done by using one level for the cafe and the lower level for the bar. There would also be special bar-only hot snacks and food items (not things that come in plastic).

As for having the "girl" coming around, yes, it could also be a guy. But a young, smart, good looking (in today's terms: "hot") guy. I just think everything about Amtrak is stuck in the 70s. There is nothing to attract a younger clientele.
 
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