cpamtfan
OBS Chief
I was reading the Amtrak section of Railpace magazine and saw a blurb on the return of on board service chiefs. Is this a sign that more of the old is getting returned to Amtrak?
On-Board Chiefs Returning
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ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Possibly. I would like to have COBs on board again, the idea sounds good to me-- I would also think it creates promotion opportunities and thus opens more new positions.
oldtimer
OBS Chief
This was mandated by arbitration at the National Mediation Board.
The union representing the On-Board Chiefs presented that Amtrak's On-Board Managers were management employees that replaced unionized workers and even the slow and usually management biased NMB had to agree.
The NMB did put one caveat as the new number of Chiefs will equal the number of on-board managers positions. The displaced OB managers that held unionized positions and maintained their good standing with the union will be able to return.
That's interesting Oldtimer, I didn't know that the COB's were union employees. Always thought that they were just regular management employees.
As for their return, I have mixed feeling about that. There were some excellant ones out there, two in particular that I remember quite well. And then there were some whom you'd never even see, except maybe if you happened to be lucky enough to be sitting in the dining car eating your meal when they came in for their meal.
Amtrak needs to find a way to ensure that the COB's are actually doing their jobs. Not sure how they do that, but some method needs to be found.
As for their return, I have mixed feeling about that. There were some excellant ones out there, two in particular that I remember quite well. And then there were some whom you'd never even see, except maybe if you happened to be lucky enough to be sitting in the dining car eating your meal when they came in for their meal.
Amtrak needs to find a way to ensure that the COB's are actually doing their jobs. Not sure how they do that, but some method needs to be found.
DivMiler
Lead Service Attendant
I'll bite. What is an on-board chief? How is it different from a conductor? Does the on-board chief report to the conductor or vice versa? What does "COB" stand for? "Chief, On Board"?
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Chief of On-Boards Services. They are managers of the OBS staff (the train attendants). The Conductor manages to the T&E crew, they are responsible for conducting the train. The COBs were responsible for passenger services.
For instance if you had rude LSA and wanted to complain you used to be able to complain to their COB (if they could be roused). Now without COBs the Conductors, who should be focused on safety and running the train, must deal with the matter.
OBS and T&E crews are separate.
The people in these positions will need to be held accountable. In the past, too many were invisible. Or they sometimes just side with the crew member when issued about service were raised. Maybe those online surveys will help
blueman271
Lead Service Attendant
COB stands for Chief of the Boat. Sorry I had to do it.
Those online surveys will be ending soon. Unless of course some last minute decision is made to save them.
sky12065
Conductor
With corn like that, it's a good thing they have a COB to store it on! Yes, I'm sorry too for having to do it! :lol:
DivMiler
Lead Service Attendant
Thanks. I assume that even though the OBS and T&E crews are separate, that the conductor is the ultimate authority on the train?
Also, what does "T&E" mean?
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Trainmen and Enginemen.
Yes, but they aren't "managers" so to speak. They make the train safe and on time. The COB is a bonafide manager, his/her job is the comfort and satisfaction pax.
Think of a cruise ship... there is the Captain and there's the Hotel manager. They're separate entities within the same system. The T&E change every so often at designated crew change points as per FRA and union agreement. The OBS stay on the train for the entire run. Thus while a Conductor will get on and off every six to eight hours or so, a COB stays on board all the way.
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PetalumaLoco
Conductor
So, upgrading on board will be done thru the COB?
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
I would surmise it might still be the Conductor's responsibility, don't ask me how I came to that answer-- it was just impulse.
the_traveler
Engineer
Was one for the T&E and one for the COB? :huh: Since they are separate, you answered twice! :lol:
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
LoL no Dave. Just, no.
PetalumaLoco
Conductor
Thinking about it, I bet you're right.
ALC's analogy is correct. Basically if it involves safety or the physical operation of the train, then the conductor is the law. If it involves problems with OBS crews, passenger comfort, problems with sales of food in either the cafe of the diner, then the COB is the law.
The conductor would still handle that, since it is a ticketing issue and that is the conductor's responsability. Now it is possible that the conductor might ask the COB to actually bring the person up to the sleeping car and introduce him/her to the attendant, or the conductor might do it himself. But collecting tickets remains the conductors job, and on board upgrades involves changing tickets.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Whoo I got something right!
In the olden days, the dining car crew was managed by the dining car steward (sometimes 4 cooks and 6 waiters in a 48 seat car!), the sleeping car attendants were managed by the Pullman Conductor (also any Pullman operated parlor and lounge car attendants), the chair car attendants, and any other specialty categories (stewardness-nurse, barber, train secretery, by the train conductor (who was ultimately in charge of all on the train, including engineer, fireman, brakemen, flagmen, baggagemen, RPO clerks, etc.
Top feature trains like the old CZ or the Twentieth Century Limited had huge crews, as compared to trains of today.
In Amtraks history, in the early years, all of the employees onboard were still employed by the railroads that previously ran the train. Amtrak soon placed "Passenger Service Representatives" to ride and report to HQ on the operations of their assigned train, and to act as a liasson between Amtrak and the passengers. A short time later, Amtrak took over the employment of the service employees, but not the train and engine crews. Although the Conductors were still in charge of the service employees, as time passed many were not experienced in managing them, having previously been in freight service. Amtrak found a need to have one of their own on board to directly manage the service crews
and insure a uniform corporate level of service and hence the Chief of Onboard Service positions were created for the long distance routes.
Top feature trains like the old CZ or the Twentieth Century Limited had huge crews, as compared to trains of today.
In Amtraks history, in the early years, all of the employees onboard were still employed by the railroads that previously ran the train. Amtrak soon placed "Passenger Service Representatives" to ride and report to HQ on the operations of their assigned train, and to act as a liasson between Amtrak and the passengers. A short time later, Amtrak took over the employment of the service employees, but not the train and engine crews. Although the Conductors were still in charge of the service employees, as time passed many were not experienced in managing them, having previously been in freight service. Amtrak found a need to have one of their own on board to directly manage the service crews
and insure a uniform corporate level of service and hence the Chief of Onboard Service positions were created for the long distance routes.
haolerider
Conductor
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The previous Chiefs and the new Operations Supervisors are not management they are union. That is what the whole arbitration decision was about. The former chiefs had a difficult time disciplining fellow union members and the new Operations Supervisors will have the same issues.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Aye, there's the rub. The problem is from the pax perspective, they are managers.
had8ley
Engineer
And union man vs. union man might be the reason so many of them hid out in their rooms for the entire trip. IIRC, about 75% of them were very invisible.
I don' think its a union man vs union man issue so much as a "Hey I paid my dues as an Attendant, LSA, etc. Now I'm top dog now so I don't have to do anything" attitude. I'm sure the union issue is there but there are plenty of crafts where one union man/woman is the supervisor of another. Yardmasters and train crews, (in the yards), for example. The Engineer and Assistant Conductor are technically under the supervision of a Conductor as well. There are Chief Clerks and regular Clerks as well all over the RR industry. The Journeyman tells the Apprentice what to do and so on.
I can only recall two trips that I had a COB and one stood out as pretty good in terms of moving about the train and addressing concerns. The other I vaguely remember. I think this could be a costly move for Amtrak, with not so much return on the investment. These guys and gals are going to get a minimum salary of 50-60k. Amtrak is going to need probably in the neighborhood of maybe 40-50 of them to handle the crews of all the LD trains. That's about 2 million a year without counting benefits. How many of them are going to run a 'tight ship'? It may save Amtrak some money if a problem can be handled right up front en-route. I don't know, how many dollars per year do they lose passing out vouchers to folks who complained via the internet, (like I have), after the trip is completed? Can a quick on the spot COB save a potential repeat rider when a train is 6+ hours late?
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