OK Amtrak Apologists

[afigg]

PSL equipment, with the exception of seven Superliners that Caltrans leased in exchange for repairing them, is owned by Amtrak, not the State of California.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, though I'm open to being proved wrong. To the best of my knowledge the "California Cars" were bought by California (using money from Prop 108 and 116) and are only used on Surfliner route. Amtrak California (which is Caltrans) thinks so too (see here and here for examples). I think I've seen a California Car outside the state once in my life.

According to wikipedia, nearly all of the Surfliner cars and locomotives used by Amtrak California are owned by the state. Of course, that may not be the most reliable source.

But Amtrak operates the 3 services for the state under the name of Amtrak California. They should have some flexibility to shift cars when they need to. However, we simply don't know the equipment availability situation that day and whether Amtrak had enough warning to prepare. If it is all unreserved ticket sales, the sales tracking software can't flag that a train or trains have been sold out. How many of the tickets were brought at the station prior to getting on the train, thereby not giving Amtrak a direct advance warning? Easy for someone going to a convention to think that everyone else ought to be aware of it, but that is not always the case.

 

[Mackensen]

I really should register one of these days.

I'm surprised that no one's picked up on the Traveler's most important point: the equipment belongs to the California Department of Transportation (Caltrans). Amtrak operates these trains under the "Amtrak California" brand but most of the money comes from California. The tracks belong to a mixture of freight railroads and Metrolink.

Any service expansion would probably require additional funding from Caltrans, and last I heard California's got budget problems. Furthermore, we know there isn't extra Surfliner equipment because 798/799 runs with single-level equipment, much to everyone's annoyance.

I won't accuse anyone of whining. I will, however, gently suggest that blame, if blame is to be assessed, belongs with the state agencies and not with Amtrak, unless we find out that Caltrans was ready with the money to expand service and Amtrak simply refused to do it.

Any takers?

PSL equipment, with the exception of seven Superliners that Caltrans leased in exchange for repairing them, is owned by Amtrak, not the State of California.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, though I'm open to being proved wrong. To the best of my knowledge the "California Cars" were bought by California (using money from Prop 108 and 116) and are only used on Surfliner route. Amtrak California (which is Caltrans) thinks so too (see here and here for examples). I think I've seen a California Car outside the state once in my life.

California Cars are indeed owned by Caltrans, but they are used only on San Joaquin and Capitol Corridor. Surfliner cars are different, though built to the same plans (I think with some minor differences, not sure), and are entirely owned by Amtrak along with all the engines.

You're right, "California Cars" and Surfliners are two separate Superliner-derived equipment sets; I was wrong to conflate the two. Alstom built them in two batches; 2000 and 2002 (see http://www.on-track-on-line.com/amtk-roster-cars.shtml#California). I know Amtrak owns the locomotives for the Surfliner; I thought California owned the Surfliner equipment too but apparently not. I've tracked down the original press release; Amtrak bought the sets itself: http://www.trainweb.com/2000/atk98029.html.

I stand corrected. Amtrak owns the equipment. Any additional equipment lying around in the area though belongs to California.

To address a point raised by someone else, the Surf Line between LA and San Diego is mostly single-tracked with passing sidings.

 

[R30A]

Actually, I believe everyone is wrong so far on the ownership. Unless I am mistaken, (which I could be) the 6X0X-6X1X cars are Amtrak owned, and the 6X5X are California owned. All engines are Amtrak owned. For the cars, that is 39/49 owned by Amtrak and 10/49 by Caltrans.

 

[DesertRat]

Well, first off, is Amtrak supposed to plan for this sort if thing? Should the organizers of the Comic-Con have reached out to coordinate with Caliornia and Amtrak to begin with?

I mean, for the annual parade my city holds every year, we have military equipment loaned as rides for the honored guests, but the city has to contact the military each year to identify the equipment needed. I would think that holds true for *any* event to coordiante support.

 

[Anderson]

Ok, quick question here: Does Amtrak add either cars or frequencies on the Surfliners at Thanksgiving? I don't recall off the top of my head, but I think they do (as I know the Cascades and NE Regionals get extra frequencies, and lots of LD trains get extra cars)? If nothing else, they could carry out a serious experiment by "shuffling" their equipment schedule and making sure that no cars are going to be out for inspection/repair that weekend and also adding any Superliner spares in LA as well.

Likewise, they could also run the weekday schedule on that particular weekend...though to be fair this wouldn't fix the Thursday problem. They could also arrange to run an extra frequency in the afternoon/evening...and though I don't know if they do this yet, they could always work with SDCC to publicize any service additions during Comic Con.

And yes, Amtrak could deadhead a couple of Superliner spares out on the Chief (and, per the pending regs, probably charge a use fee to Amtrak California).

Edit: Per the above, I think this is, to some extent, a "Both of you screwed up" type of event. On the one hand, it might be good if SDCC reached out to Amtrak (or, for that matter, DragonCon or any of the other major cons did). On the other hand, most cons don't go beyond the con itself and arranging official hotels, and I think it is probably too much to expect them to make more than a courtesy call.

On Amtrak's side, if you get a regular surge in ridership on a given weekend each year, somebody in the bean counting office should note the spike in tickets being redeemed/used and/or someone should note the unusual SRO situation and make a note of it (and ask themselves what might be causing this). A little data mining can go a long way, and you'd think they would "catch on".

 

[johnny.menhennet]

I believe one of the chief differences between the northern corridor cars and the southern (Surfliner) cars are that in the Surfliner, or second, batch, all of the cafe's have the cafe itself on the bottom. The first batch had them on top. Not many other differences. I know that there aren't any upstairs cafes on the PacSurf, but I'm not sure either of whether there are any downstairs cafes on the Cap and the SJ. While I believe that almost all of the California Cars in general are Caltrans-owned, I will not make this statement without admitting I don't know so as not to be ridiculed. I do not one bit consider myself an Amtrak apologist, but these people here are going through what MANY go through every day on 784 and 785, and I don't hear so many complaints about those trains being thrown around. If the 7:30 was that bad though, I can't possibly seem to fathom how it must have been on 784. At least it was bilevel, but geez. Seriously though, there is not that much equip to spare at all.

 

[Ana]

That's a good point Desert Rat. ComicCon would also be able to provide more accurate numbers than gestimates based on previous years. I feel like for something like this the organisers should reach out to amtrak, it's not like a holiday like thanksgiving that most everyone is celebrating.

Also, and i guess this will mean I get called an apologist but I wanted to given the perspective of someone who loves riding amtrak, who has ridden trains on a regular basis in the UK, Germany and Australia and who is a non-US resident -what's wrong with trying to look on the positive side when things go wrong? Why everyone's experience have to be perfect? I am genuinely curious because I read so many hissy fits where something goes wrong and people say 'never again' and flounce straight back to their cars. The world doesn't revolve around any of us and things can go wrong but public transportation is so much more environmentally friendly so i think a bit of inconvenience is worth it. It also helps develop a sense of community. I have met so many people on trains I would never meet in the bubble of a car. If things go wrong, well, it can be annoying but so what? I can well imagine the situation described by the OP and it sounds sucky and could've been handled better but people got there and surely werent scarred for life, frankly, it sounds no worse than an ordinary London workday morning commute.

In most of the bad experiences people describe, passengers are still comfortable and safe. Being inconvenienced isn't the end of the world. In all my journeys I've had plenty go wrong, a mix of acts if god, accidents, bad planning, over overcrowding etc. It doesn't keep me up at night now . I remember a trip in the UK where I had to zig zag across the country in a journey 3 times longer than it shouldve been because an accident messed everything up. I had to work those out self - no one boarded my train to give me hotel and cab vouchers! Paying full price (way more expensive than the cost of a ticket between LA and San Diego) to sit on the vestibule floor in both the uk and germany. I used to be crammed in so tight on my london commuter journey I could faint and not fall down. I think Amtrak is super cushy, lots of space, checked bags, food, guaranteed connections. The staff coddle passengers like nothing I've seen anywhere else ( we don't even have to work out which platform we have to board from!) and the refund policies and guaranteed connections are really generous.

I dont mean to offend anyone,i just have a lot of trouble understanding why people feel it necessary to let a bad experience be the be all and end and stop them doing something that I think really benefits society overall (and is pretty darn fun!). Sometimes things don't go perfectly and I'm all for ranting about it, it sure makes me feel better too. Might help too, with suggestions about how things could be improved, But when I hear the 'i cannot believe I was so inconvenienced, I shall never go near a train again' type rants I can't help but think, really, you're that precious?

ETA sorry about the formatting, I can't get the paragraph spaces to show.

 

[rusty spike]

That's a good point Desert Rat. ComicCon would also be able to provide more accurate numbers than gestimates based on previous years. I feel like for something like this the organisers should reach out to amtrak, it's not like a holiday like thanksgiving that most everyone is celebrating.

Also, and i guess this will mean I get called an apologist but I wanted to given the perspective of someone who loves riding amtrak, who has ridden trains on a regular basis in the UK, Germany and Australia and who is a non-US resident -what's wrong with trying to look on the positive side when things go wrong? Why everyone's experience have to be perfect? I am genuinely curious because I read so many hissy fits where something goes wrong and people say 'never again' and flounce straight back to their cars. The world doesn't revolve around any of us and things can go wrong but public transportation is so much more environmentally friendly so i think a bit of inconvenience is worth it. It also helps develop a sense of community. I have met so many people on trains I would never meet in the bubble of a car. If things go wrong, well, it can be annoying but so what? I can well imagine the situation described by the OP and it sounds sucky and could've been handled better but people got there and surely werent scarred for life, frankly, it sounds no worse than an ordinary London workday morning commute.

In most of the bad experiences people describe, passengers are still comfortable and safe. Being inconvenienced isn't the end of the world. In all my journeys I've had plenty go wrong, a mix of acts if god, accidents, bad planning, over overcrowding etc. It doesn't keep me up at night now . I remember a trip in the UK where I had to zig zag across the country in a journey 3 times longer than it shouldve been because an accident messed everything up. I had to work those out self - no one boarded my train to give me hotel and cab vouchers! Paying full price (way more expensive than the cost of a ticket between LA and San Diego) to sit on the vestibule floor in both the uk and germany. I used to be crammed in so tight on my london commuter journey I could faint and not fall down. I think Amtrak is super cushy, lots of space, checked bags, food, guaranteed connections. The staff coddle passengers like nothing I've seen anywhere else ( we don't even have to work out which platform we have to board from!) and the refund policies and guaranteed connections are really generous.

I dont mean to offend anyone,i just have a lot of trouble understanding why people feel it necessary to let a bad experience be the be all and end and stop them doing something that I think really benefits society overall (and is pretty darn fun!). Sometimes things don't go perfectly and I'm all for ranting about it, it sure makes me feel better too. Might help too, with suggestions about how things could be improved, But when I hear the 'i cannot believe I was so inconvenienced, I shall never go near a train again' type rants I can't help but think, really, you're that precious?

ETA sorry about the formatting, I can't get the paragraph spaces to show.

A very good observation Ann.

Sometimes it takes an "outsider" to present a perspective that most Americans don't or can't see. Many foreign coutries would envy our transportation system, but all we hear about is the high speed rail systems of Europe and Japan and how inferior our system is. To some 3rd world countries our system is first class. I have seen city buses so crowded in a city like Mazatlan Mexico, if a pax is lucky enough to squeeze in the entrance door, usally someone,unintentionally leaves by the back door. And their pax rail system is gone.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[MikefromCrete]

It seems there's a lot of blame to go around here:

1. Comic Con is an annual, popular event. Amtrak should be aware of this and plan for it.

2. Are there extra Surfliner/Superliners cars laying around the L.A. yard? If there are, then they should have been added to the consist for the four-day run of Comic Con.

3. If there are not extra cars in L.A., are there any extra Superliners any where at this time of the year? There may not be. Hauling cars from Chicago or San Francisco or Seattle may be too expensive or too time consuming.

4. Putting an extra assistant conductor on a train shouldn't be that hard in L.A. It's not like finding extra staff in the middle of Montana or Kansas. They're a large enough employee pool in L.A.

5. Perhaps an extra run or two could be added to the existing schedule using existing equipment. I'm not an expert on how efficiently the existing equipment is utilized.

6. In summary, yeah, Amtrak should do a better job with these kinds of special events.

7. I wonder if the Big Bang Theory gang rode Amtrak to Comic Con. Sheldon really loves trains.

 

[JayPea]

That's a good point Desert Rat. ComicCon would also be able to provide more accurate numbers than gestimates based on previous years. I feel like for something like this the organisers should reach out to amtrak, it's not like a holiday like thanksgiving that most everyone is celebrating.

Also, and i guess this will mean I get called an apologist but I wanted to given the perspective of someone who loves riding amtrak, who has ridden trains on a regular basis in the UK, Germany and Australia and who is a non-US resident -what's wrong with trying to look on the positive side when things go wrong? Why everyone's experience have to be perfect? I am genuinely curious because I read so many hissy fits where something goes wrong and people say 'never again' and flounce straight back to their cars. The world doesn't revolve around any of us and things can go wrong but public transportation is so much more environmentally friendly so i think a bit of inconvenience is worth it. It also helps develop a sense of community. I have met so many people on trains I would never meet in the bubble of a car. If things go wrong, well, it can be annoying but so what? I can well imagine the situation described by the OP and it sounds sucky and could've been handled better but people got there and surely werent scarred for life, frankly, it sounds no worse than an ordinary London workday morning commute.

In most of the bad experiences people describe, passengers are still comfortable and safe. Being inconvenienced isn't the end of the world. In all my journeys I've had plenty go wrong, a mix of acts if god, accidents, bad planning, over overcrowding etc. It doesn't keep me up at night now . I remember a trip in the UK where I had to zig zag across the country in a journey 3 times longer than it shouldve been because an accident messed everything up. I had to work those out self - no one boarded my train to give me hotel and cab vouchers! Paying full price (way more expensive than the cost of a ticket between LA and San Diego) to sit on the vestibule floor in both the uk and germany. I used to be crammed in so tight on my london commuter journey I could faint and not fall down. I think Amtrak is super cushy, lots of space, checked bags, food, guaranteed connections. The staff coddle passengers like nothing I've seen anywhere else ( we don't even have to work out which platform we have to board from!) and the refund policies and guaranteed connections are really generous.

I dont mean to offend anyone,i just have a lot of trouble understanding why people feel it necessary to let a bad experience be the be all and end and stop them doing something that I think really benefits society overall (and is pretty darn fun!). Sometimes things don't go perfectly and I'm all for ranting about it, it sure makes me feel better too. Might help too, with suggestions about how things could be improved, But when I hear the 'i cannot believe I was so inconvenienced, I shall never go near a train again' type rants I can't help but think, really, you're that precious?

ETA sorry about the formatting, I can't get the paragraph spaces to show.

Hah! Now I love this post! I couldn't agree more with it! It's always refreshing to hear the perspective of someone from other than our own country. Gives a fresh way of looking at things. And this line:

But when I hear the 'i cannot believe I was so inconvenienced, I shall never go near a train again' type rants I can't help but think, really, you're that precious?

has got to be one of my all-time lines ever! :lol: :lol: :lol: I think I'm going to adopt it as my own!!!

 

[DesertRat]

It seems there's a lot of blame to go around here:

1. Comic Con is an annual, popular event. Amtrak should be aware of this and plan for it.

2. Are there extra Surfliner/Superliners cars laying around the L.A. yard? If there are, then they should have been added to the consist for the four-day run of Comic Con.

3. If there are not extra cars in L.A., are there any extra Superliners any where at this time of the year? There may not be. Hauling cars from Chicago or San Francisco or Seattle may be too expensive or too time consuming.

4. Putting an extra assistant conductor on a train shouldn't be that hard in L.A. It's not like finding extra staff in the middle of Montana or Kansas. They're a large enough employee pool in L.A.

5. Perhaps an extra run or two could be added to the existing schedule using existing equipment. I'm not an expert on how efficiently the existing equipment is utilized.

6. In summary, yeah, Amtrak should do a better job with these kinds of special events.

7. I wonder if the Big Bang Theory gang rode Amtrak to Comic Con. Sheldon really loves trains.

Comic Con is nowhere as massive an event as Thanksgiving or the Super Bowl. Can Amtrak really be expected to plan some kind of information about the demand without some kind of input from the planners? Hopefully data mining will provide better service but really should we expect the same level of planning as they do for the holidays (public events that affects the entire national system) or major sporting events (private but affects major city systems including service to nearby cities???)

 

[Devil's Advocate]

This forum seems pretty well divided into two groups: those who like riding on trains - for all their shortcomings - and those that mostly complain about them.

I agree that this forum is easily divided into two groups. First there are those who have jobs and responsibilities that require them to be at a specific place at a specific time and can only take Amtrak if they're willing and able to plan everything else around the train. Second, there are the folks who are retired or otherwise unencumbered and don't really care when or if they arrive at a specific time or a specific place so long as they never touch a plane or bus in the process. :lol:

Once again, whine on folks.

We'll get started just as soon as you finish. hboy:

I can say that this is everyday life on NJ Transit and probably countless other transit companies across the world. Have you ever seen video of the trains in Japan during rush hour?

Japan is home to around half of the size of the entire US population living on a landmass roughly the size of California. The vast majority of these people ride trains on a regular basis. Now, try to imagine Amtrak California moving nearly half of all Americans between home, work, and recreation with barely a few seconds of delay. In Japan you won't get very far blaming the train for making you late, just like in America you won't get very far claiming the train arrived exactly when scheduled. :lol:

Comic Con is nowhere as massive an event as Thanksgiving or the Super Bowl. Can Amtrak really be expected to plan some kind of information about the demand without some kind of input from the planners? Hopefully data mining will provide better service but really should we expect the same level of planning as they do for the holidays (public events that affects the entire national system) or major sporting events (private but affects major city systems including service to nearby cities???)

In my view Mike was making a series of perfectly reasonable points. Even if you have an answer for one or two of them it's hard to simply explain them all away with a single stroke. But your reply seems to be based on the idea that the only thing that matters is size. Last I checked Comic-con was the size of five or six Barstow California's in a city the size of fifty Barstow's in a metro the size of 150 Barstow's. And yet that didn't stop you from comparing it to your local military appreciation parade in another post. So maybe size isn't the whole story after all. In my view you have this whole issue completely backward. I'm perfectly willing to give Amtrak more of a pass during periods such as Thanksgiving and the winter solstice holidays simply because there is only so much you can expect when everything and everyone is already spoken for. On the other hand, what exactly is competing with Comic-con for available resources? If you can come up with an answer for that then maybe we'll be getting somewhere.

 

[Trogdor]

The OP cites one example and assumes that must apply to everything. Train 790, like it or not, is such with single level equipment due to the lack of bi-level cars. In fact, there are two single-level sets running right now. Why? Because the cars from one of the regular sets have been redistributed to add capacity to the other sets.

It will probably remain that way through the end of the summer because of Del Mar starting up in a week (oh, that must be impossible because Amtrak never plans for things).

It's summer, aka peak season throughout the system. Cars are assigned to trains right now. You can't defer maintenance on the cars forever, and you don't want to bring your reserves down to absolute zero, in case something does break. Amtrak tried that a few years ago with disastrous results (look up the Warrington years for info).

Could they have added staff on the trains to work the doors? Maybe. I don't know. I don't know what their staffing level was like on Thursday. However, many crew bases are short staffed, and if it comes to adding someone to one train to help with doors, or putting them on another train that is short-staffed, then you have to make those choices.

Extra trains can't be added with existing equipment because they require not only extra crews, but also railroad approval which isn't easily forthcoming.

As for food provisions, there's only so much storage space in a Horizon club-dinette. I don't think people realize how limited it is (yet many of the same folks ***** about cafe tables being taken up by "crew junk").

It's not an ideal situation by any means, but it is what it is. That's the passenger rail system we have in this country because nobody wants to pay the cost of something better.

P.S. I like how the OP automatically assumes anyone who knows what's going on is an apologist. Great way to encourage a mature debate.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

The OP cites one example and assumes that must apply to everything. Train 790, like it or not, is such with single level equipment due to the lack of bi-level cars. In fact, there are two single-level sets running right now. Why? Because the cars from one of the regular sets have been redistributed to add capacity to the other sets.

It will probably remain that way through the end of the summer because of Del Mar starting up in a week (oh, that must be impossible because Amtrak never plans for things).

It's summer, aka peak season throughout the system. Cars are assigned to trains right now. You can't defer maintenance on the cars forever, and you don't want to bring your reserves down to absolute zero, in case something does break. Amtrak tried that a few years ago with disastrous results (look up the Warrington years for info).

Could they have added staff on the trains to work the doors? Maybe. I don't know. I don't know what their staffing level was like on Thursday. However, many crew bases are short staffed, and if it comes to adding someone to one train to help with doors, or putting them on another train that is short-staffed, then you have to make those choices.

Extra trains can't be added with existing equipment because they require not only extra crews, but also railroad approval which isn't easily forthcoming.

As for food provisions, there's only so much storage space in a Horizon club-dinette. I don't think people realize how limited it is (yet many of the same folks ***** about cafe tables being taken up by "crew junk").

It's not an ideal situation by any means, but it is what it is. That's the passenger rail system we have in this country because nobody wants to pay the cost of something better.

P.S. I like how the OP automatically assumes anyone who knows what's going on is an apologist. Great way to encourage a mature debate.

Agreed with what you say at the bottom. Is it true though that two of the 7 Surfliner sets are single-level? Doesn't actually sound good to me at all, because you need at least 8 single-levels (including the cafe) to equal the capacity of just a 5-car bilevel, most of which are 6 cars. The only single level set that I've seen has been 5 cars, including the cafe, which means only 3 coaches. it's a mess because only 3 of the doors or so can be opened. Because of the auto doors, larger capacity, and comfort of the bilevels and the fact that generally, there will not be standees on most of these trains, I don't support AT ALL single level sets. To me and most of us out here, they're evil.

 

[Joeker]

Thanksgiving holidays happen every year too. On the busiest travel days ( Wednesday and Sunday) at least in the Midwest and East Amtrak does add extra cars often using commuter agencies equipment. In addition, they do schedule extra runs at the peak hours. Also they make every train ( as most are) reserved only.

Now the Comic-Con planners could have worked with Amtrak or the State of California rail authority to insure that sufficient notice of the anticipated local traffic from LA and and other points could be accommodated. I don't know how many spare sets of equipment was available but if Amtrak did haul all those people to the convention without any extra cars and some tickets may not have been lifted then its the customers gain and Amtrak's pain. Amtrak certainly should share some of the blame because it had the perfect opportunity to showcase its service and equipment with advance planning with the respective convention planners and local commuter agencies.

 

[caravanman]

Hi,

I have never understood myself why Amtrak/Surfliner etc staff only open one or two train doors, in most of the world we are treated as adults, not sheep, who can enter and leave through any available train door without needing the slightest heavy handed supervision.

It might be good if organisers of events co-operated by notifying Amtrak of large crowds, and both then made a joint effort to serve the customers well.

We are rail fans on this site, but encouraging new customers to ride the train by misleading positive, "It's never Amtrak's fault" responses is just as bad as being unjustly negative.

Lets try to be honest and open!

Ed

 

[me_little_me]

I see a lot of heat being generated along with the issues being discussed.

Yes, I think Amtrak could and should have made more of an effort for a known big local event. This would mean additional cars, if available, and additional people. Possibly at one of the stops, have a truck with additional supplies. So why didn't they?

One reason could be that the issue is local. Unlike Thanksgiving which is national and gathers national attention, it is possible that upper level management had no idea what comic-con was or is. Local management may not have cared or decided it wasn't worth the effort for a lot of non-locals. Putting on a "maximum effort" is a strain on both people and resources. Is Amtrak getting additional funds from revenue. After all, more cars mean more comfortable passengers but Amtrak still collects the same ticket revenue whether you stand in the aisles or sit comfortable in an additional car. It is more a matter of public relations than financial gain for them for an annual one-time event.

Are Amtrak people compensated or rewarded for such an above-and-beyond effort? Amtrak's attitude (and railroad union rules) often seem to be at odds with such extra-effort needs. Are there attempts in the midst of snowstorms to "maximum effort" the affected cities? I don't know but my guess is the answer is negative.

Does Amtrak even have plans in place for localized "maximum efforts" so that when they occur unexpectedly or on short notice, they can be pulled out and used?

Has management decided that such events simply overtax people, finances and equipment for a very small ROI? Are they using such events as a bargaining chip? "See, if you gave us more money, we'd be able to handle that!" is often used to get additional resources in any government and industry area.

Possibly some of the Amtrak insiders here can give us more insight. And possibly some of the posters can express their opinions and turn down the heat. It is already too hot this summer.

 

[Trogdor]

To j m, there are nine sets required for Surfliner operation. Normally eight bi-levels and a single level. Right now, it's seven and two. Don't know for sure, but I think they have four regular coaches. Need to double-check.

To caravan, the cars have manual doors and heavy traps that can only be opened from the inside and can injure you if you're not careful. They need to be operated by a crew member.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

To j m, there are nine sets required for Surfliner operation. Normally eight bi-levels and a single level. Right now, it's seven and two. Don't know for sure, but I think they have four regular coaches. Need to double-check.

To caravan, the cars have manual doors and heavy traps that can only be opened from the inside and can injure you if you're not careful. They need to be operated by a crew member.

Oh ok. Thank you for clarifying. I didn't know that. So with 21 of the bilevels coming to the Surfliner in 2016ish, I assume the single level will be replaced with a set of 7 and all of the others will become 7 or 8 cars? Either that or they remove the Superliners and make all 6 or 7, which is not that big an improvement. I really thought that there were 7, and I wish there were, because that means we can beef up the consists more with the bilevel order.

 

[jis]

At the end of the day, would that not be Amtrak California's (an organization distinct from Amtrak) call to make, being that it is their budget that would have to cover the extra staffing, and of course collect the extra fares too?

 

[DesertRat]

I thougt it was.

 

[Paulus]

Comic Con is nowhere as massive an event as Thanksgiving or the Super Bowl. Can Amtrak really be expected to plan some kind of information about the demand without some kind of input from the planners? Hopefully data mining will provide better service but really should we expect the same level of planning as they do for the holidays (public events that affects the entire national system) or major sporting events (private but affects major city systems including service to nearby cities???)

Consider, however, that Amtrak is a business which, in theory at least, is supposed to make money. Their marketing and management folks should be proactive about this. Saying "Well, ComicCon should have told Amtrak!" is really missing the mark, especially given that Amtrak is under a lot of pressure from Caltrans to make more money and improve their cost recovery (which is barely better than the commuter lines sharing LOSSAN). Marketing should have sat down periodically throughout the year, took note of the major conventions and concerts, and contacted them to highlight Amtrak (even a simple listing of "Or take Amtrak to San Diego Santa Fe and bus/trolley/walk/whatever" in addition to normal driving directions) and then made sure that the best equipment was on hand to deal with expected passenger loads. Instead, they completely dropped the ball on this.

 

[jis]

California Cars are indeed owned by Caltrans, but they are used only on San Joaquin and Capitol Corridor. Surfliner cars are different, though built to the same plans (I think with some minor differences, not sure), and are entirely owned by Amtrak along with all the engines.

Amtrak does not own a single Alstom manufactured Surfliner car. Those are all owned by Caltrans.

Surfliner operations are managed by Caltrans with the actual operation of the trains contracted to Amtrak. So any decision involving additional money being spent for special service would be a decision for Caltrans to make as the manager of the service.

The P32-8 and F50PHIs used to power the service are all owned by the State of California too.

 

[Trogdor]

California Cars are indeed owned by Caltrans, but they are used only on San Joaquin and Capitol Corridor. Surfliner cars are different, though built to the same plans (I think with some minor differences, not sure), and are entirely owned by Amtrak along with all the engines.

Amtrak does not own a single Alstom manufactured Surfliner car. Those are all owned by Caltrans.

Surfliner operations are managed by Caltrans with the actual operation of the trains contracted to Amtrak. So any decision involving additional money being spent for special service would be a decision for Caltrans to make as the manager of the service.

The P32-8 and F50PHIs used to power the service are all owned by the State of California too.

That is not true. Amtrak does in fact own some of the Surfliner coaches. Also, all of the F59s in Surfliner service are Amtrak. Caltrans owns the CDTX 2000 series engines (Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin), but the Surfliner (and Cascades) engines are all in the AMTK 450-470 series.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Amtraks in the business to make money. If you keep turning away 1st time customers do to shoddy service your not wining back any returning riders. Adding a car or 2 would increase revenue cause now more people can ride. this comic con happens every year and amtrak should be smart for once and use the crowds to there advantage. during the 10-10-10 Chicago marathon the wolverine had 7 cars instead of 5 and during the stl gathering the Missouri river runner went from 3 cars to 5 or 6 for the beer fest they had. If amtrak can plain for that then they can plain for comic con or any other cons that come up and try and get more people to ride the train. You can't make money on shunning people away. The platforms can handle 1 extra superliner to the PS trains quit making it harder then it is. If amtrak could find out in advance on what dates the con is going to be held then can adjust the maintenance and fra inspections by having it done sooner so they have a couple extra cars to run.