My Amtrak Experience.

[ALC Rail Writer]

I'm around my 30,000th mile with all different routes and levels of service... never had a real reason to complain.

 

[RTOlson]

I appreciate that the tone of the conversation has changed. I feel like I can contribute two things based on the original poster's concerns (based solely on what I've read here):

- Many sleeping car attendants keep ice available in a cooler in their room. They can't set it out for passengers' direct use, apparently due to federal health rules (and honestly, would you want ice after someone may have stuck their hands into the bag?).

- The soda thing has been beaten to death, but there are other drink options for passengers in the sleeping car -- including juice (at least in the morning) plus coffee and tap water. I suppose you might get 24/7 soda service on an airplane, but I've never had the desire to ask outside of the normal serving periods.

Hyperbole aside, I do feel that customers who feel they haven't received full value for their service should call Customer Service if only to help provide input on improving the service (or to seek compensation).

Many of us on this board seem good at managing expectations, in part because it's foolhardy to deny the reality of the existing service. However, I don't think it means that we stop expecting more from Amtrak.

Thanks for what has evolved into a good conversation.

 

[dlagrua]

Look I spent 26 hours up and down from DC. There is no reason why they can't have sodas etc... 24/7. I know the trains are old why not at least retro fit them with WiFi and dare I say a small flat TV screen in each sleeper? They do this on the airlines. Amtrak is offering a very slow service. They should at least equal airlines with comfort or at least try.

At one time Amtrak did provide free soda in the sleeping cars. That practice stopped about 4 or 5 years ago in part due to budget cuts at that time forced upon Amtrak by Congress. The secondary reason for their loss was hoarding of the soda by a few. And that few included both passengers and crew.

Yes, there were a few crew members who would not put out their entire stock of soda and instead take it home for their own use or to sell. And there were also passengers who would grab 4 or 5 sodas every time they passed by the beverage station and go home with 10, 15, 20 or more cans of soda.

So again, when ordered by Congress to cut food service losses, free sodas in the sleepers were an easy and to some extent a logical place to start.

Solution: Install a small soda machine in the vestibule area of the sleepers and charge $1 per soda.

As for the movies, you could broadcast them via online wifi to people with laptops, iPads and personal communication devices. Most everyone carrys one of these devices these days

 

[Jack Boudreaux]

Look I spent 26 hours up and down from DC. There is no reason why they can't have sodas etc... 24/7. I know the trains are old why not at least retro fit them with WiFi and dare I say a small flat TV screen in each sleeper? They do this on the airlines. Amtrak is offering a very slow service. They should at least equal airlines with comfort or at least try.

At one time Amtrak did provide free soda in the sleeping cars. That practice stopped about 4 or 5 years ago in part due to budget cuts at that time forced upon Amtrak by Congress. The secondary reason for their loss was hoarding of the soda by a few. And that few included both passengers and crew.

Yes, there were a few crew members who would not put out their entire stock of soda and instead take it home for their own use or to sell. And there were also passengers who would grab 4 or 5 sodas every time they passed by the beverage station and go home with 10, 15, 20 or more cans of soda.

So again, when ordered by Congress to cut food service losses, free sodas in the sleepers were an easy and to some extent a logical place to start.

Solution: Install a small soda machine in the vestibule area of the sleepers and charge $1 per soda.

As for the movies, you could broadcast them via online wifi to people with laptops, iPads and personal communication devices. Most everyone carrys one of these devices these days

Sound like a plan to me. I'm willing to pay more. Also find something a little better to sleep on and fix the AC and I would have been a happy camper. We went to ridiculous levels comparing services but in reality it wouldn't take much in terms of money and commitment to make things much better.

 

[Trogdor]

Solution: Install a small soda machine in the vestibule area of the sleepers and charge $1 per soda.

I'm sure the maintenance alone would make that a serious money-loser.

Sliding off the topic of this thread, until a few years ago there used to be an "automat" car, which was basically a vending machine car, that operated on the Pere Marquette. I wonder how well that worked and how often the machines broke down (most vending machines are in stationary buildings that don't go over switches at 79 mph).

Still, if you're going to go through the trouble of installing extra machines (and I'm not sure where you'd even put them in a sleeper, because the vestibule area wouldn't be a good idea for safety reasons, and there's no room anywhere else), and still charge people for it, then why not just walk over to the cafe car and buy one there.

As for the movies, you could broadcast them via online wifi to people with laptops, iPads and personal communication devices. Most everyone carrys one of these devices these days

Most people that carry a laptop, iPad, or other personal communication device also are able to put their own movies on said devices. There wouldn't really be a point to "broadcasting" a movie via WiFi.

 

[frj1983]

Look I spent 26 hours up and down from DC. There is no reason why they can't have sodas etc... 24/7. I know the trains are old why not at least retro fit them with WiFi and dare I say a small flat TV screen in each sleeper? They do this on the airlines. Amtrak is offering a very slow service. They should at least equal airlines with comfort or at least try.

At one time Amtrak did provide free soda in the sleeping cars. That practice stopped about 4 or 5 years ago in part due to budget cuts at that time forced upon Amtrak by Congress. The secondary reason for their loss was hoarding of the soda by a few. And that few included both passengers and crew.

Yes, there were a few crew members who would not put out their entire stock of soda and instead take it home for their own use or to sell. And there were also passengers who would grab 4 or 5 sodas every time they passed by the beverage station and go home with 10, 15, 20 or more cans of soda.

So again, when ordered by Congress to cut food service losses, free sodas in the sleepers were an easy and to some extent a logical place to start.

Solution: Install a small soda machine in the vestibule area of the sleepers and charge $1 per soda.

As for the movies, you could broadcast them via online wifi to people with laptops, iPads and personal communication devices. Most everyone carrys one of these devices these days

Sound like a plan to me. I'm willing to pay more. Also find something a little better to sleep on and fix the AC and I would have been a happy camper. We went to ridiculous levels comparing services but in reality it wouldn't take much in terms of money and commitment to make things much better.

And there Jack you have answered the unasked question that has been batted around here: Why is Amtrak not any better?

Answer: They've NEVER had the money and they've NEVER had the commitment from the govt to make things go right! Even now, I DOUBT the govt's commitment to Amtrak...talk about HSR, yeah sure talk is cheap, show me the money NOW! :wacko:

 

[rrdude]

Solution: Install a small soda machine in the vestibule area of the sleepers and charge $1 per soda.

I'm sure the maintenance alone would make that a serious money-loser.

I gotta agree, a vending machine on a train is just a bad idea ALL the way around. It MOST DEF would end up costing more than it EVER brought in. (There are exceptions, but in general)

The cars sit in hot, and sometimes cold yards for hours on end. Pilferage by yard employees and trespassers is ALWAYS gonna happen, the vibrations/movement as the OP said, etc., etc.

Heck, if it went into Sunnyside yard, I'd be surprised if the who damn machine wasn't stolen. I worked the old Broadway years ago, and when we got the equipment back for the return to Chicago, sometimes the kitchen, or the double-dinner-converted-into-a-snack-lounge would be almost completely stripped. I'm talking microwaves, TVs (duh) VCR players, ALL cooking utensils. Chafing dishes. It made for some interesting trips back west.

And then there were the times that LSA's (Which I was one of) literally thru POS units off of moving trains on the NEC. No kidding. MOW workers found the remains of some of the early IBM POS units on the ROW years ago. That of course is a WHOLE different story...........

But I'm hoping security has improved over the years....

 

[haolerider]

Solution: Install a small soda machine in the vestibule area of the sleepers and charge $1 per soda.

I'm sure the maintenance alone would make that a serious money-loser.

I gotta agree, a vending machine on a train is just a bad idea ALL the way around. It MOST DEF would end up costing more than it EVER brought in. (There are exceptions, but in general)

The cars sit in hot, and sometimes cold yards for hours on end. Pilferage by yard employees and trespassers is ALWAYS gonna happen, the vibrations/movement as the OP said, etc., etc.

Heck, if it went into Sunnyside yard, I'd be surprised if the who damn machine wasn't stolen. I worked the old Broadway years ago, and when we got the equipment back for the return to Chicago, sometimes the kitchen, or the double-dinner-converted-into-a-snack-lounge would be almost completely stripped. I'm talking microwaves, TVs (duh) VCR players, ALL cooking utensils. Chafing dishes. It made for some interesting trips back west.

And then there were the times that LSA's (Which I was one of) literally thru POS units off of moving trains on the NEC. No kidding. MOW workers found the remains of some of the early IBM POS units on the ROW years ago. That of course is a WHOLE different story...........

But I'm hoping security has improved over the years....

This has always been one of the most depressing topics at Amtrak - the constant incidents of theft and destruction of property, which seemingly continues to happen with very little security and control. The cost to Amtrak for this kind of foolishness is tremendous and has resulted in the loss of the TVs in the roomettes and other amenities, basically because Amtrak could no longer afford to replace stolen and destroyed equipment. The idea of throwing POS units off the train is childish and immature, but I know it happened and continues to happen. There are new POS devices coming to Amtrak and they will save money, control inventory and allow Amtrak to better predict usage on board, but if the same attitude continues with the OBS staff, the new system does not stand a chance.

 

[Jack Boudreaux]

Solution: Install a small soda machine in the vestibule area of the sleepers and charge $1 per soda.

I'm sure the maintenance alone would make that a serious money-loser.

I gotta agree, a vending machine on a train is just a bad idea ALL the way around. It MOST DEF would end up costing more than it EVER brought in. (There are exceptions, but in general)

The cars sit in hot, and sometimes cold yards for hours on end. Pilferage by yard employees and trespassers is ALWAYS gonna happen, the vibrations/movement as the OP said, etc., etc.

Heck, if it went into Sunnyside yard, I'd be surprised if the who damn machine wasn't stolen. I worked the old Broadway years ago, and when we got the equipment back for the return to Chicago, sometimes the kitchen, or the double-dinner-converted-into-a-snack-lounge would be almost completely stripped. I'm talking microwaves, TVs (duh) VCR players, ALL cooking utensils. Chafing dishes. It made for some interesting trips back west.

And then there were the times that LSA's (Which I was one of) literally thru POS units off of moving trains on the NEC. No kidding. MOW workers found the remains of some of the early IBM POS units on the ROW years ago. That of course is a WHOLE different story...........

But I'm hoping security has improved over the years....

This has always been one of the most depressing topics at Amtrak - the constant incidents of theft and destruction of property, which seemingly continues to happen with very little security and control. The cost to Amtrak for this kind of foolishness is tremendous and has resulted in the loss of the TVs in the roomettes and other amenities, basically because Amtrak could no longer afford to replace stolen and destroyed equipment. The idea of throwing POS units off the train is childish and immature, but I know it happened and continues to happen. There are new POS devices coming to Amtrak and they will save money, control inventory and allow Amtrak to better predict usage on board, but if the same attitude continues with the OBS staff, the new system does not stand a chance.

Who is doing the destruction? Employees or passengers? A small TV in the roomettes would be nice. Why are they not being prosecuted? Destruction of government property is a biggie. http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01666.htm

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Who is doing the destruction? Employees or passengers? A small TV in the roomettes would be nice. Why are they not being prosecuted? Destruction of government property is a biggie. http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01666.htm

First of all, Amtrak is not an appendage of the government. It's a corporation subsidized by the government. How many times do you expect us to explain this? As for personal televisions or movie screens I'd be all for it and I'm sorry to hear it's already been abandoned by Amtrak due to their inability to keep them from being damaged or stolen. This is one area they could have easily eclipsed domestic airlines. Oh well, yet another good idea flushed down the drain due to a lack of proper security.

 

[rrdude]

It is downright depressing, the loss due to both employee and contractor theft or abuse.

Every company experiences this, Amtrak is no exception. The problem is indeed security. You have a rolling asset, secure in one yard one day, completely vulnerable the next day. Sunnyside, Chicago, Beech Grove, LAX, New Orleans, it happens everywhere.

I think the problem is bigger at Amtrak, and I do wonder, and have no knowledge, if this type of problem was common in the pre-Amtrak days, or was there just "less to steal"?

As for POS systems on board. Good luck. I was involved with two different pilot project involving POS systems on Amtrak. And at one of my demo's to upper-mgmt, I said "no matter who you choose as your vendor, just make sure the POS system is: Rugged, portable (so it can be taken off the train), lightweight, (LSA's have enuff to lug around) and EZ to use.

Amtrak-California tried them. (don't remember who vendor was) NEC tried them. (Ciao POS)& (IBM) and Intercity tried them (NCR)

Now they are just using "bangers", simple cash registers. Good luck.

 

[alanh]

Re: the vending machines issue, people don't realize how much of a beating equipment on a train takes. It's actually very difficult (and expensive) to engineer something to take the vibration and shocks that a train can deliver, year after year. Especially if it has moving parts.

Ice is a recurring complaint; the problem is the FDA does not permit open ice chests because people stick their grubby hands into it. (Yes, some car attendants do leave ice out but they're not supposed to.) Someone uses the lavatory, doesn't wash their hands, goes over to the drinks station and grabs a fistful of ice for their drink. Eww, and this is what can happen.

So Amtrak can either not provide ice, install an ice dispenser (dealing with space, cost, and maintenance issues), or have the car attendant provide the ice.

 

[Larry H.]

And before you reply, let me just say this is perhaps the silliest thing I have read on these boards...

Amtrak is keeping you for a extended period

Amtrak isn't keeping you anywhere. Did they handcuff you to the train? If the service is so abominable that you can't stand it one second longer, then get off. Trust me, nobody is going to stop you from short boarding.

I know we have butted heads previously here. Your attitude is what is wrong with the entire Amtrak System.. You have several writers here giving an honest opinion of how disappointed they found the quality of their Amtrak Experience, particularly with the cost of the fare. Its one thing to jack up fares as high as demand will permit, which is how they have operated with much support here for a long time, but its another to charge that kind of fare and over time decrease the quality of the experience, which is what people do object too. As usual we have some hard core, anything that runs on rails is fine, supporters who justify the most lax of service and quality. Worse yet is when an honest opinion is given they are then attacked by some of you as being almost stupid to have even considered that perhaps Amtrak might be offering the kind of service that the cost would infer. This isn't a new problem, nor will it go away. Rail is not a plane. Those who wish to be somewhere in a couple hours will not take the train Those who do fall for the advertising that its the Experience of getting there that is what Amtrak and a rail trip offer. Then when you get falling apart cars, surly crew, microwave food that less than you might expect and you pay several thousand for a room. Well anyone with a bit of introspection can see that this is not what many in the traveling public are expecting. I have met many people on board who were on their first rail trips in many years and many of them are not satisfied with the experience. We all know that some of this is government issues with money and politics, but it doesn't make matters any better for the person who buys the ticket. Canada appears to have at least a clue as to what it is that people want. We could do well to copy some of their goals.

 

[Larry H.]

I work for a living, that's all you need to know.
You paid for twenty some hours of service... Divide your ticket by the number of people then by the number of hours. I'll use a recent trip I took on the LSL from BOS to CLE.

Two people divided by 460' 230 per person, we spent about fifteen hours on the train.. That means we each paid $15.34 per hour per person... And that was an expensive trip, had my miter not been along I would have done coach.

When you actually run the numbers, you aren't paying all that much for your service.

Awe! An Amtrak government employee. You guys suck!

Not that it should matter, but he's not an Amtrak employee. There are a few on this board, but ALC isn't one.

And please watch your tone or I'm going to shut this topic down. I understand that you're upset, but insulting people isn't going to change things. Talking or writing to Amtrak might help some, but again insulting people here won't.

Thanks.

Alan,

I am a bit surprised that after the OP was attacked for his opinion you are supporting the attacker.

 

[AlanB]

I work for a living, that's all you need to know.
You paid for twenty some hours of service... Divide your ticket by the number of people then by the number of hours. I'll use a recent trip I took on the LSL from BOS to CLE.

Two people divided by 460' 230 per person, we spent about fifteen hours on the train.. That means we each paid $15.34 per hour per person... And that was an expensive trip, had my miter not been along I would have done coach.

When you actually run the numbers, you aren't paying all that much for your service.

Awe! An Amtrak government employee. You guys suck!

Not that it should matter, but he's not an Amtrak employee. There are a few on this board, but ALC isn't one.

And please watch your tone or I'm going to shut this topic down. I understand that you're upset, but insulting people isn't going to change things. Talking or writing to Amtrak might help some, but again insulting people here won't.

Thanks.

Alan,

I am a bit surprised that after the OP was attacked for his opinion you are supporting the attacker.

Larry,

My response to Jack wasn't with regard the specific post that I quoted. I quoted this post because initially I was referring to the employment bit. I apologize for any confusion that the second paragraph caused. Perhaps I should have started a new post.

I then went on to caution Jack because he had made several other posts where his tone was either boarderline or out of line. In fact, at least one of Jack's posts was deleted by me. And just for the record, I also deleted several posts by other members who had attacked Jack personally too. So on the whole I think that I've been rather fair and balanced with things in this topic.

 

[sunchaser]

Who is doing the destruction? Employees or passengers? A small TV in the roomettes would be nice. Why are they not being prosecuted? Destruction of government property is a biggie. http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01666.htm

First of all, Amtrak is not an appendage of the government. It's a corporation subsidized by the government. How many times do you expect us to explain this? As for personal televisions or movie screens I'd be all for it and I'm sorry to hear it's already been abandoned by Amtrak due to their inability to keep them from being damaged or stolen. This is one area they could have easily eclipsed domestic airlines. Oh well, yet another good idea flushed down the drain due to a lack of proper security.

Are you sure that the government does not own Amtrak? I just did a search on google & ask, & there are plenty of answers saying yes they do. Bottom line on the articles I read, NRPC owns Amtrak, NRPC is owned by the government. Either all or part of the Amtrak stock is owned by the government. Funding comes from Congress (meaning the taxpayer, since Congress is not a business & they get their funding from us), & the farebox, meaning the riders, again that it us.

Edit: changed from NARP to NRPC BIG BOO BOO!!

 

[Eric S]

Who is doing the destruction? Employees or passengers? A small TV in the roomettes would be nice. Why are they not being prosecuted? Destruction of government property is a biggie. http://www.justice.g...e9/crm01666.htm

First of all, Amtrak is not an appendage of the government. It's a corporation subsidized by the government. How many times do you expect us to explain this? As for personal televisions or movie screens I'd be all for it and I'm sorry to hear it's already been abandoned by Amtrak due to their inability to keep them from being damaged or stolen. This is one area they could have easily eclipsed domestic airlines. Oh well, yet another good idea flushed down the drain due to a lack of proper security.

Are you sure that the government does not own Amtrak? I just did a search on google & ask, & there are plenty of answers saying yes they do. Bottom line on the articles I read, NARP owns Amtrak, Narp is owned by the government. Either all or part of the Amtrak stock is owned by the government. Funding comes from Congress (meaning the taxpayer, since Congress is not a business & they get their funding from us), & the farebox, meaning the riders, again that it us.

Without wading into the Amtrak/government question, I think you mean NRPC rather than NARP. NRPC (National Railroad Passenger Corporation) is Amtrak's formal name, while NARP (National Association of Railroad Passengers) is simply a pro-rail advocacy group.

 

[sunchaser]

Who is doing the destruction? Employees or passengers? A small TV in the roomettes would be nice. Why are they not being prosecuted? Destruction of government property is a biggie. http://www.justice.g...e9/crm01666.htm

First of all, Amtrak is not an appendage of the government. It's a corporation subsidized by the government. How many times do you expect us to explain this? As for personal televisions or movie screens I'd be all for it and I'm sorry to hear it's already been abandoned by Amtrak due to their inability to keep them from being damaged or stolen. This is one area they could have easily eclipsed domestic airlines. Oh well, yet another good idea flushed down the drain due to a lack of proper security.

Are you sure that the government does not own Amtrak? I just did a search on google & ask, & there are plenty of answers saying yes they do. Bottom line on the articles I read, NARP owns Amtrak, Narp is owned by the government. Either all or part of the Amtrak stock is owned by the government. Funding comes from Congress (meaning the taxpayer, since Congress is not a business & they get their funding from us), & the farebox, meaning the riders, again that it us.

Without wading into the Amtrak/government question, I think you mean NRPC rather than NARP. NRPC (National Railroad Passenger Corporation) is Amtrak's formal name, while NARP (National Association of Railroad Passengers) is simply a pro-rail advocacy group.

Thank you for the correction. I thought they were the same thing.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Are you sure that the government does not own Amtrak?

That's a bit of a different question though, isn't it? You can say the government "owns" Amtrak but that alone does not make Amtrak a department or agency of the government, which is what was referred to in the link about destroying "government property" aboard trains. Some stations and facilities and land may be government property that is then leased to or otherwise set aside or made available for use by Amtrak. However, Amtrak owning any given device or facility is not enough for it to be considered government property. If Amtrak property is not government property then is Amtrak really part of the government?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Furthermore NRPC *is* Amtrak, the NRPC and Amtrak are virtual synonyms. The train is NRPC property and Boardman is the CEO or the NRPC, or you could say that the train is Amtrak property and that Boardman is Amtrak's CEO.

In any event it is the NRPC whose sole investor, and thus financial interest, is the US Congress. The relationship between Amtrak and Congress and Congress and some other corporations (such as AIG, of which Congress owned an 80% controlling interest) is not all that dissimilar, yet you don't see Congress becoming involved in AIG's day-to-day activities nor collecting its profit.

If Amtrak were to, somehow, turn a profit then it could hypothetically repay its loans and buy back its interests from Congress becoming 100% solvent. Of course it's a stretch to see if thats even possible.

So yes, Amtrak's financial interests are owned by the government. That doesn't make them government workers, hardly, at minimum 60% of their pay comes from the fare box. Another portion comes from private loans that Amtrak takes out to keep Federal subsidies to a minimum, and then, yes, a portion of their pay comes from money given to Amtrak from the Feds. That's the difference between a government worker and an employee of a government subsidized corporation. An employee of the Federal government gets a check from the US Treasury. An employee of Amtrak gets a check from Amtrak.

And yes, seriously, even the direct deposits say: *** TREAS 310 FED SALARY PPD ID: ##########

(Certain information censored to protect personal information.) Notice that the Federal employee clearly has "FED" next to the word "SALARY" and that the payee is the department of government (the first three censored letters) and the "TREAS" which stands for the US Treasury. The final censored numbers are the Payroll ID, which again is personal.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I mean if you're going to be silly about this, anybody who got any money from the stimulus funds are government employees. You could say your Doctor is a government employee because they receive money from Medicaid and Medicare, your barber because he received a small business loan, or a painter contracted to repaint a post office...

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

A remarkably fast proof of Godwin's Law. I suppose the thread is closed now.

LOL! You know how hard is it for your sleeper customers to be able to get a cold diet coke at anytime? I would have been willing to pay for it. How hard is it get sheets thick enough not to be able to make out the prison black and white strips on your pillow? I could go on and on. The whole experience was really bad. I will not do it again unless big changes are made.

I wonder if you really rode the Cresent since those of us who ride Amtrak Sleepers know that Amtrak only serves Pepsi products -- so, no, no diet coke. I must say my sheets have been thick enough and the pillow slip thick enough that I did not notice if the pillow had black and white stripes. On my last ride on the Empire Builder we had Sierra Mist and Pepsi's available for the duration of the trip as well as coffee and juice. And my SCA was pleasant and available but not constantly badgering me to provide service. I personally like to be left to entertain myself than to being "pampered". And, yes, I fly first class occasionally and first class leaves a lot to be desired on domestic flights. Basically what you get is a larger seat and more leg room. Meals and beverage service can be hit or miss on my favorite airline.

 

[sunchaser]

I mean if you're going to be silly about this, anybody who got any money from the stimulus funds are government employees. You could say your Doctor is a government employee because they receive money from Medicaid and Medicare, your barber because he received a small business loan, or a painter contracted to repaint a post office...

Aw, c'mon you know that's not what I mean at all. All extra funding goes through Congress, Congress holds the purse strings, so nothing happens without their say so.

A doctor may co-operate with government programs in order to be paid for services rendered for patients with Medicare or Medicaid, or even SCHIP, Champus or ChampVA. I currently have no doctor, because I haven't found one that will take the insurance I have.

As far as the stimulii, certain funds were tied to some control over how the money was spent.

 

[tp49]

The answer is this. Amtrak is considered a part of the government when it comes to violations of the individual rights guaranteed under the Constitution. In all other situations it is treated as if it is a private business entity. This comes from the Lebron case which was a First Amendment case.

Amtrak is an agency or instrumentality of the United States for the purpose of individual rights guaranteed against the Government by the Constitution. This conclusion accords with the public, judicial, and congressional understanding over the years that Government created and -controlled corporations are part of the Government itself.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Alan, I wish to say publicly that I think keeping this thread open is extremely counterproductive.

Who is doing the destruction? Employees or passengers? A small TV in the roomettes would be nice. Why are they not being prosecuted? Destruction of government property is a biggie. http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01666.htm

&

Are you sure that the government does not own Amtrak? I just did a search on google & ask, & there are plenty of answers saying yes they do. Bottom line on the articles I read, NRPC owns Amtrak, NRPC is owned by the government. Either all or part of the Amtrak stock is owned by the government. Funding comes from Congress (meaning the taxpayer, since Congress is not a business & they get their funding from us), & the farebox, meaning the riders, again that it us.

Edit: changed from NARP to NRPC BIG BOO BOO!!

To answer you all, Amtrak is not a government agency, effectively. Apple Computer, Inc. is a corporation owned by a great many people and institutions, including myself. Amtrak is the trade name of the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (NRPC). There are two classes of NRPC shares. There is a voting block, and a non-voting block. The non-voting block is controlled by the successors of the railroads that bought into Amtrak so as to be relieved of their common-carrier passenger burden taken on when they got federal funding and easements.

The voting block of shares is owned by the United States government. Some specific department, I don't remember which. They own them with the same privileges most voting shareholders have when they own a company. Such as the right to appoint board members. Since the department is controlled by the executive branch, the person who appoints that board is the President. Naturally, all presidential appointments must be approved by Congress. That is the extent of Congress's direct control over Amtrak, however...

Where Congress gets control over Amtrak is indirectly, through control of its purse strings. No Congressional law has ever directly forced Amtrak to do anything. Instead, they have required Amtrak to do something by making that change a requirement of maintaining funding.

Aside from appointment of board members, Amtrak could thumb their nose at Congress if they became self-funded or funded via external sources.

That is how they are different than a federal agency. They are under Congress's control through their need for Congress's help, not by chain-of-command.