My Amtrak Experience.

[Green Maned Lion]

While a**holes can come from any place seems like the overwhelming majority of the bad and indifferent OBS come from CHI/Back East! Perhaps the folks you talked with were exposed to some of those, there never are as many people telling others how great their train trips and the OBS involved was except on this sight! I'm as aware as the next guy about the problems, just wish everyone would realize that 40 years of starvation and political shennigans havent helped, not to mention the poor management that Amtrak had @ various times1 Things are looking up, the glass is half full, let's not empty it now! :excl: :excl: :excl:

One key issue I have learned in various businesses I've been in over the years: About 5% of very satisfied customers say something to the company to tell them so, or to tell others so. And about 90% of unsatisfied customers spend their time yelling into your ear. Often so loud that they don't hear the things I offer in an attempt to fix the fact that they are not satisfied.

And then, when they are done making you deaf, but before you can repeat your offers of placation, they hang up, and get a megaphone, and repeat the entire loud complaint to the world at large.

If as much energy were spent on talking with Congress to really increase funding and if the complainers would decide to join rail advocacy groups around the country lobby for better service, increased routes and new equipment, maybe Amtrak would get somewhere. Complaining on this board does nothing but take up space - unless you have a specific and logical suggestion for improvement.

Quote for truth.

Are you trying to say that OBS is underpaid? Starting salary is around $15/hr and all the work except for the cook is unskilled. That is good money in my book especially when you walk into the snack car and see the attendant sitting on their butt half the time. In my opinion OBS is overpaid and the engineers/conductors (ie skilled workers) are underpaid.

Every time I see someone refer to OBS staff as unskilled, my eyes turn red. If it is so unskilled, and if you think that is so much money, you try it, [opening to the alimentary canal].

Are there any advocacy groups that support passenger rail but are not locked into blindly supporting Amtrak? If so I'll be happy to join. As for speaking with Congress, I've written both my Senators and Congressman personally as I assume many of you have as well. One thing that I'm wondering about is why the annual meet-ups don't include some sort of lobbying component. Lots of folks showing up to voice their support for passenger rail could be far more persuasive than just sending a single letter here and there.

While the National Association of Railroad Passengers seems to be a sounding board for positive Amtrak feed back (likely reasons include the fact that Amtrak contributes considerable money to NARP in the form of a contract), I would say that they are the exception, not the rule.

I know plenty of people in NJ-ARP who are less than favourable. In fact, just two days ago I shut up a wildly misinformed Al Papp of NJ-ARP, ranting about "Amtrak's equipment plans don't include plans for expansion!" ("Al, did you actually read the report? Allowing for scalability of production and thus possibility of fleet expansion was sort of its main point." :blink: ) In fact, I would say in general, most organized rail advocates fall into one of two categories, summarized as "Everything sucks" and "Realistic Perspective".

Certainly, at the Lackawanna Coalition, most of our members are highly intelligent (in my opinion, anyway) and tend to find many things about Amtrak disagreeable, to the point of mentioning them frequently at meetings. Which is odd, since our main area of interest is NJ Transit (particularly Morris & Essex and Montclair-Boonton lines) not Amtrak, and our really main concern involving Amtrak (ARC tunnels, and the lack of connectivity thereof for Amtrak) does not involve much in the way of Amtrak doing anything wrong.

Personally speaking as an involved rail advocate, we work pretty hard for the benefit of rail transit (and transit in general), and I personally take offense to your implication that all we do is cheer Amtrak on. Amtrak has its problems, which I argue against. Most of them, however, have little to do with the general complaints I hear, and have a lot to do with political nonsense.

My personal experience aboard Amtrak with service has been extremely good. I doubt that I have unbelievably good luck. I have had a few employees that are less than stellar in performance, but quite frankly, I see that a lot more everywhere else(and I'm not limiting myself to transportation). Given that Amtrak is a government run monolith, I consider that a minor miracle.

However, when Amtrak does have problems and issues, I will be the first to give you an earful about it.

 

[guest]

Green-Maned Lion with Rose-Colored glasses?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Green-Maned Lion with Rose-Colored glasses?

Would you care to explain your non-sequitur?

 

[had8ley]

Do you think that maybe money and budgets have anything to do with the quality of employee that you get, or their behavior?

Are you trying to say that OBS is underpaid? Starting salary is around $15/hr and all the work except for the cook is unskilled. That is good money in my book especially when you walk into the snack car and see the attendant sitting on their butt half the time. In my opinion OBS is overpaid and the engineers/conductors (ie skilled workers) are underpaid.

Thank you, think you, thank you...best comment this year !!!

 

[Guest]

Did you forget the disclaimer hadley h34r: : FYI, I am a retired engineer! :lol:

 

[Cruiser]

This is easily the most interesting, informative thread I have come across.

I was born and raised in Chicago and remember the days when the big rail companies started to go bankrupt. Our interstate hwy system caused a major headache by taking over so much of the profitable freight traffic (as a nephew/UPS pilot likes to quip, "Boxes don't *****.") as well as cutting into the passenger service which had been subsidized by it. Amtrak was the only alternative to a complete loss of interstate passenger rail service.

Over the years it has been kept on a starvation diet, as mentioned upthread, simply because rail travel was never a priority for the American people. We had cars, cheap gasoline and for years we had safe, reliable and comfortable air service (until it was deregulated). Today we have a massive oil disaster still unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico and a new public awareness of the need to end our addiction to oil. Air travel has constantly been degraded in the rush for positive quarterly results to impress Wall Street and increase stock prices.

But we also have a VP who commuted on Amtrak for years. We have an administration that thinks investing in our infrastructure, including rail service, is a good thing. And thanks to the survival of Amtrak over the years, we have a foundation on which to build. There is reason to be optimistic about its future.

That said, I am much better prepared for our first LD trip on the CZ than I was before I read about the experiences the OP had. I am hopeful that we won't encounter any of the problems he had, but it helps to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. My expectations have definitely been lowered.

BTW, what does IIRC mean? And are there really no ice machines on board? Don't they need ice for mixed drinks?

 

[rrdude]

This is easily the most interesting, informative thread I have come across.

I was born and raised in Chicago and remember the days when the big rail companies started to go bankrupt. Our interstate hwy system caused a major headache by taking over so much of the profitable freight traffic (as a nephew/UPS pilot likes to quip, "Boxes don't *****.") as well as cutting into the passenger service which had been subsidized by it. Amtrak was the only alternative to a complete loss of interstate passenger rail service.

Over the years it has been kept on a starvation diet, as mentioned upthread, simply because rail travel was never a priority for the American people. We had cars, cheap gasoline and for years we had safe, reliable and comfortable air service (until it was deregulated). Today we have a massive oil disaster still unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico and a new public awareness of the need to end our addiction to oil. Air travel has constantly been degraded in the rush for positive quarterly results to impress Wall Street and increase stock prices.

But we also have a VP who commuted on Amtrak for years. We have an administration that thinks investing in our infrastructure, including rail service, is a good thing. And thanks to the survival of Amtrak over the years, we have a foundation on which to build. There is reason to be optimistic about its future.

That said, I am much better prepared for our first LD trip on the CZ than I was before I read about the experiences the OP had. I am hopeful that we won't encounter any of the problems he had, but it helps to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. My expectations have definitely been lowered.

BTW, what does IIRC mean? And are there really no ice machines on board? Don't they need ice for mixed drinks?

If I Remember Correctly........No Ice Machines, Bagged Ice picked up enroute.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Today we have a massive oil disaster still unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico and a new public awareness of the need to end our addiction to oil.

From what I understand polls continue to show that most Americans still want more offshore drilling not less, including deep water drilling. The remaining moratoriums are being successfully quashed in front of judges who own stock in the companies they're ruling on. The more you read the more you realize that the supposed green revolution is all talk and no action. Oil use won't end until it's all gone. And I mean every last drop, tar sands and all. This administration may pay lip service to public transportation, but so far as I've seen they've done very little that can't be reversed by the next administration. If they were making serious moves like China is then I'd be far more optimistic. Unfortunately we can't have better infrastructure and an endless war. So we chose endless war and China chose infrastructure. Who do you think will end up on top at the end?

 

[Cruiser]

Today we have a massive oil disaster still unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico and a new public awareness of the need to end our addiction to oil.

From what I understand polls continue to show that most Americans still want more offshore drilling not less, including deep water drilling. The remaining moratoriums are being successfully quashed in front of judges who own stock in the companies they're ruling on. The more you read the more you realize that the supposed green revolution is all talk and no action. Oil use won't end until it's all gone. And I mean every last drop, tar sands and all. This administration may pay lip service to public transportation, but so far as I've seen they've done very little that can't be reversed by the next administration. If they were making serious moves like China is then I'd be far more optimistic. Unfortunately we can't have better infrastructure and an endless war. So we chose endless war and China chose infrastructure. Who do you think will end up on top at the end?

Personally, that is a no brainer. But then, I live in a Marine Corps town and can see first hand how devastating these endless wars really are. Infrastructure will always be my first choice, not only because it provides employment, but because it creates facilities that can be enjoyed by future generations, unlike endless wars.

As for the public opinion of off shore drilling, the latest Pew report shows a swing away from it down to 44% in favor in June as opposed to 63% in February. http://pewresearch.o...-to-citizenship I do think that as more oil is deposited on Gulf beaches, that position will harden as it did in California after the Santa Barbara oil disaster which was much smaller.

What we do about it is something else again.

(I'm still trying to get over no ice machines on board. At least I can hold two diametrically opposing ideas in my head at the same time!)

 

[haolerider]

Today we have a massive oil disaster still unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico and a new public awareness of the need to end our addiction to oil.

From what I understand polls continue to show that most Americans still want more offshore drilling not less, including deep water drilling. The remaining moratoriums are being successfully quashed in front of judges who own stock in the companies they're ruling on. The more you read the more you realize that the supposed green revolution is all talk and no action. Oil use won't end until it's all gone. And I mean every last drop, tar sands and all. This administration may pay lip service to public transportation, but so far as I've seen they've done very little that can't be reversed by the next administration. If they were making serious moves like China is then I'd be far more optimistic. Unfortunately we can't have better infrastructure and an endless war. So we chose endless war and China chose infrastructure. Who do you think will end up on top at the end?

Personally, that is a no brainer. But then, I live in a Marine Corps town and can see first hand how devastating these endless wars really are. Infrastructure will always be my first choice, not only because it provides employment, but because it creates facilities that can be enjoyed by future generations, unlike endless wars.

As for the public opinion of off shore drilling, the latest Pew report shows a swing away from it down to 44% in favor in June as opposed to 63% in February. http://pewresearch.o...-to-citizenship I do think that as more oil is deposited on Gulf beaches, that position will harden as it did in California after the Santa Barbara oil disaster which was much smaller.

What we do about it is something else again.

(I'm still trying to get over no ice machines on board. At least I can hold two diametrically opposing ideas in my head at the same time!)

If you are traveling in a sleeper, you will have access to ice from your sleeping car attendant. There are strict FDA rules regarding ice and there is basically no space on the train for an ice machine. Enjoy your trip.

 

[AlanB]

Even if there were a way to fit an ice machine into a train car, it would probably produce some very interestingly shaped ice cubes thanks to all the rocking & rolling train cars do; if it managed to produce any ice at all since the water would probably just splash all over the inside before freezing.

 

[Cruiser]

Even if there were a way to fit an ice machine into a train car, it would probably produce some very interestingly shaped ice cubes thanks to all the rocking & rolling train cars do; if it managed to produce any ice at all since the water would probably just splash all over the inside before freezing.

Good point.

We spent 12 years traveling full time in a motor home with an ice maker. I simply forgot that we only turned it on when we were parked and plugged in.

 

[RTOlson]

Ah, for all the complaining that people do about the Cross Country Cafe cars, they have at least one advantage -- they have ice-making machines. I haven't seen them in action, but it sounds like a nice feature.