Mother with 5 kids kicked off Amtrak in middle of night

[crescent-zephyr]

Is it really that hard to beleive the conductor went on a huge power trip and caused the drama here? I wasn't there, but my recent Amtrak trips lead me to beleive that was the case.

 

[seat38a]

Certainly hope for a "remain" vote Jim! Won't know 'till tomorrow.

C'mon guys and girls, it 'aint rocket science. Do you want your kid to sit alone next to a stranger all night on a train? Nope!

If you have bought coach seat tickets you expect to sit in the coach with your kids, not in the lounge with the party folk...

It is simply about being kind, considerate. Everyone on this topic is talking about it with hindsight, nobody on the train got up to move, they did not care about the woman and kids, that it the astonishing fact. Even if you are saying "bad mom", 5 kids under 12 years of age were involved in being cold shouldered.

A woman and five kids with the same surnames getting on at the same stop, gosh, that is a coincidence... Where is Lt.Columbo when you need a mystery solving like "where would the best places to seat these same name young kids and adult be" ???

Anyway, back to the U.K. referendum

Ed.

No one asked. What was stopping the mom from asking around her? She could have taken responsibility woke people up around her and asked. Did you miss the part about all of them on a separate reservation? Is the train crew, supposed to group all common last names and assume they are from the same group?

 

[seat38a]

If you read the article it's clear that the dice being rolled was the "I choose to believe what an Amtrak agent told me" dice. The mother was told in advance that the reservations would be linked and that the entire family would be able to sit together.

That is the only part that I find odd. I would think that the agent would know that there would be no way to guarantee that everyone could sit together.

I have 6 kids, and travel with them on the train all the time. But usually in smaller groups. The limitations of the current systems means that I try to board at larger stations, as to get priority boarding. I'll use all the tricks at the bigger stations, like red-capping, or getting an acela pass. I know if I need to show up early and where to stand, etc.

Assigning seats would be nice for me, as it would ensure we would sit together, but not if it means adding a premium "tax" on that ability, as they do in europe. One thing I've noticed travelling in Europe is that if you book late, its much harder to sit together then it might be on amtrak.

Sometimes I've seen conductors do semi-assigning seats. I remember on the LSL, the conduction would group us by car depending on where we got off. Or on lots of trains the conductor would only allow seating on a limited set of cars, then gradually open the train up as they hit more and more stops, making it easier for groups to sit together, and thwart the seat hogs.

Seat hogs are a whole different issue. They can really screw up the current system. I seen so many seat hogs use the "sit down and pretend to fall asleep" trick.

I think, the mother has left out some details or chose to omit certain aspects of the conversation with the agent when interviewed. In the 3 years, I've always been told that nothing is guaranteed when they make a notation in the reservation. I've personally traveled to the beginning station instead of boarding at an intermediate station during busy holiday weekends just so our group could sit together.

 

[the_traveler]

Back when AGR was handled by agents in Canada, I was told by the AGR agent this:

Amtrak now has these NEW sleeping cars that only have roomettes on the upper level!

They are called, I believe, trans-dorms and have been around for many years! (Not exactly new!)

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Certainly hope for a "remain" vote Jim! Won't know 'till tomorrow.

C'mon guys and girls, it 'aint rocket science. Do you want your kid to sit alone next to a stranger all night on a train? Nope!

If you have bought coach seat tickets you expect to sit in the coach with your kids, not in the lounge with the party folk...

It is simply about being kind, considerate. Everyone on this topic is talking about it with hindsight, nobody on the train got up to move, they did not care about the woman and kids, that it the astonishing fact. Even if you are saying "bad mom", 5 kids under 12 years of age were involved in being cold shouldered.

A woman and five kids with the same surnames getting on at the same stop, gosh, that is a coincidence... Where is Lt.Columbo when you need a mystery solving like "where would the best places to seat these same name young kids and adult be" ???

Anyway, back to the U.K. referendum

Ed.

No one asked. What was stopping the mom from asking around her? She could have taken responsibility woke people up around her and asked. Did you miss the part about all of them on a separate reservation? Is the train crew, supposed to group all common last names and assume they are from the same group?

I hope not as I have a very common name (though not Jones or Smith).

 

[seat38a]

Late to the bun fight as I am trying to keep the UK in Europe! (Anything to go against Mr. Trump's wishes...)

I am surprised that a warm hearted "Christian" nation like the U.S. can be so cold towards a mom and kids as young as 2.

Ed.

Because, there is a point where people just have enough with people burdening others with their problems. Especially when they choose to roll the dice and save money. This happens everywhere these days including on airplanes, where they choose to not pay for advanced seat assignment etc.. Being considerate goes both ways, and it does not excuse you, just because you have kids.

The issue with airplanes is that there's now often an additional price for "premium" seats including exit rows, behind bulkheads, window, and aisle. How does it get handled on something like a 3+2 configuration?

If that is what the business charges for a seat, and you choose to fly them, but decide to wait till you checkin and see if somehow miraculously your group can sit together and not separated in middle seats throughout the plain, then that is totally on you. If you boarded, and asked me to change seats, this after I picked my seat ahead of time and then paid the premium, my answer will be NO. You pay, take your chances, or go with someone else or if you have no choice but that airline, then you pay.

 

[fairviewroad]

Because, there is a point where people just have enough with people burdening others with their problems. Especially when they choose to roll the dice and save money.

If you read the article it's clear that the dice being rolled was the "I choose to believe what an Amtrak agent told me" dice. The mother was told in advance that the reservations would be linked and that the entire family would be able to sit together.

It's absolutely correct to say that relying on the word of a phone or ticket agent about what will happen on the train is a huge gamble. It's too bad that's true.

And, agents NEVER guarantee anything in the last 3 years that I've called to change or have a noted added to my reservation. I've always been told, that they will make a note, but it NOT guaranteed. And quite frankly, were taking this woman's word without even verifying the truth or if she left couple important details out. From personal experience, she left couple minor details out regarding her conversation on the phone.

It's true that we cannot verify what specifically this woman was told by an Amtrak agent. What she is saying is that she was told their reservations would be linked. That's different than guaranteeing seats together. But a rationale person could be expected to conclude that if Amtrak's internal communications system had worked, the woman would have been allowed to sit with her children.

 

[BCL]

Late to the bun fight as I am trying to keep the UK in Europe! (Anything to go against Mr. Trump's wishes...)

I am surprised that a warm hearted "Christian" nation like the U.S. can be so cold towards a mom and kids as young as 2.

Ed.

Because, there is a point where people just have enough with people burdening others with their problems. Especially when they choose to roll the dice and save money. This happens everywhere these days including on airplanes, where they choose to not pay for advanced seat assignment etc.. Being considerate goes both ways, and it does not excuse you, just because you have kids.

The issue with airplanes is that there's now often an additional price for "premium" seats including exit rows, behind bulkheads, window, and aisle. How does it get handled on something like a 3+2 configuration?

If that is what the business charges for a seat, and you choose to fly them, but decide to wait till you checkin and see if somehow miraculously your group can sit together and not separated in middle seats throughout the plain, then that is totally on you. If you boarded, and asked me to change seats, this after I picked my seat ahead of time and then paid the premium, my answer will be NO. You pay, take your chances, or go with someone else or if you have no choice but that airline, then you pay.

Well - once I bought tickets for my family of three to Seattle. One issue is that my wife and kid got round trip tickets as they were staying longer. I returned home a week earlier on the CS.

However, we bought the tickets a bit late and didn't have the option for seat choice. I also had to choose separately as I was on a separate reservation. There was nothing left on the plane even two together, so we ended up getting three consecutive center seats. When we boarded my wife politely asked if perhaps someone might trade a seat and one passenger had no issue with doing so, even though his was an aisle seat. I think the alternative was our 4 year old sitting next to him without a parent. And I'm pretty sure if my wife pressed the issue, a flight attendant would have ordered someone to move.

 

[jis]

In general, on a plane when I come across a situation where I am requested to swap a seat to enable a child to sit with a family adult I tend to agree to do so. In my mind children deserve the extra consideration even if the adults are clueless or dicks. I generally agree to change seats in the same class or subclass (e.g. Y+). I do not agree to a downgrade, but would happily accept an upgrade

 

[JoeBas]

Not everyone here thinks it is their job to inconvenience one group of fare paying passengers to accomodate another group that could have avoided the problem by making a proper group reservation in the first place.

So you admit the "Sleeping" thing is a Canard, as nobody is so dead asleep within the short amount of time after leaving so as not to be able to be "Disturbed".

It seems your issue is more philosophical, as in "Not my problem, begone peasants!".

 

[caravanman]

"Did you miss the part about all of them on a separate reservation? Is the train crew, supposed to group all common last names and assume they are from the same group? "

Nope, did you miss the part where they all had the same name, 5 were kids, and all getting on at the same station? As I said, it probably needed someone with superior detective powers to even consider that they might need to sit together.

No need to scour the train for passengers of the same name, just read the passenger boarding manifest, maybe?

It all boils down to the milk of human kindness... Some folk always seem to exude sour milk when it comes to helping others.

Ed.

 

[Lonestar648]

To me once she made separate reservations she should have called Amtrak to link the reservations. I did this when one daughter was going north the other south and the grand daughters round trip. It took a supervisor, but it worked well. She thanked me for calling so the system was properly documenting the group. No one at Amtrak has a way of seeing she was a group with separate reservations. Was she trying avoid the rule of number of small children per adult passenger? For the airlines, I was told by a manager friend at United, this for safety in an Emergency, such as oxygen masks or exiting quickly together.

I think all we know is what the woman and the media wants us to know, so what do they NOT want us to know???

 

[fairviewroad]

To me once she made separate reservations she should have called Amtrak to link the reservations.

She says she did that. If you choose not to believe her, fine.

 

[BCL]

I think all we know is what the woman and the media wants us to know, so what do they NOT want us to know???

I think most of us were thinking that she may have booked separately to avoid having 4 fares all in a higher bucket. However, since she herself can only account as one (18+) adult, it could have been booked as 1 adult, 2 child + 1 adult, 2 child, for the equivalent of 4 adult fares. As a single booking it would have been 4 adults, 2 child for the equivalent of 5 adult fares. Having seen the picture of her family on the train, it looks like she was the only actual adult in her party. The rules for a child fare say that it must be purchased with an adult's fare where the adult is at least 18.

 

[the_traveler]

"Did you miss the part about all of them on a separate reservation? Is the train crew, supposed to group all common last names and assume they are from the same group? "

Nope, did you miss the part where they all had the same name, 5 were kids, and all getting on at the same station? As I said, it probably needed someone with superior detective powers to even consider that they might need to sit together.

8 people with the last name of Jones are reserved to board train #5 in SLC after midnight going to Reno, they reserved in 3 groups - do they'd sit together? :huh:
The first group is a mother, father and their 5 year old son. The second group is a mother and her 12 year old twin daughters. The third group is a 70 year old husband & wife. None have ever met each other.

They all have the same last name, they are all boarding from the same station in the middle of the night and they are all going to the same station. So they MUST want to sit together. Amtrak better set aside 2 rows in the front of the car for them!

That what my superior detective powers tell me!

 

[JoeBas]

"Did you miss the part about all of them on a separate reservation? Is the train crew, supposed to group all common last names and assume they are from the same group? "

Nope, did you miss the part where they all had the same name, 5 were kids, and all getting on at the same station? As I said, it probably needed someone with superior detective powers to even consider that they might need to sit together.

8 people with the last name of Jones are reserved to board train #5 in SLC after midnight going to Reno, they reserved in 3 groups - do they'd sit together? :huh:
The first group is a mother, father and their 5 year old son. The second group is a mother and her 12 year old twin daughters. The third group is a 70 year old husband & wife. None have ever met each other.

They all have the same last name, they are all boarding from the same station in the middle of the night and they are all going to the same station. So they MUST want to sit together. Amtrak better set aside 2 rows in the front of the car for them!

That what my superior detective powers tell me!

And if they do, and they ARE all related, great!

And if they don't, and they're NOT all related... I still don't see what the friggin' harm was.

C'est la vie.

 

[Ryan]

Do we know for a fact that everyone even has the same last name?

 

[the_traveler]

True.

It's possible that the mother and father remarried after each had children. Thus his son's last name are Carter, and her daughter's last name are Cook. Thus the reservations would be 2 Carters and 3 Cooks. Her last name is Miller. (Her daughter's use their father's last name.)How is the CA or Conductor supposed to assume the group is together? :huh:

 

[Hal]

True.

It's possible that the mother and father remarried after each had children. Thus his son's last name are Carter, and her daughter's last name are Cook. Thus the reservations would be 2 Carters and 3 Cooks. Her last name is Miller. (Her daughter's use their father's last name.)How is the CA or Conductor supposed to assume the group is together? :huh:

They would only know if it were cross referenced and noted on the manifest. That can be done.
Reservations may have screwed up, the Conductor might have screwed up or the passenger might have screwed up. We don't have enough information/facts to make a judgement. I expect that Amtrak knows and I am certain that if it was reservations or the crew they would take some action.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jis]

Amtrak did refund the fare to them. Hopefully they are also fixing whatever broke.

Meanwhile the armchair philosophers at AU shall continue to discuss every hypothetical angle often without any basis in known facts, until the cows come home. Nothing can prevent that. And where would the fun be if such were curtailed?

 

[OBS]

MOOOooo!

 

[AKA]

Amtrak did refund the fare to them. Hopefully they are also fixing whatever broke.

Meanwhile the armchair philosophers at AU shall continue to discuss every hypothetical angle often without any basis in known facts, until the cows come home. Nothing can prevent that. And where would the fun be if such were curtailed?

I concur