Mother with 5 kids kicked off Amtrak in middle of night

[PVD]

Even in the ariline industry where assigned seating is common, not all carriers implement it the same way, or even at all. Southwest, a very successful operation with consistently high passenger satisfaction ratings, does not assign most seats, it boards by groups created by check in time, with the option of paying to be in the first group. Managing intermediate stop boarding and departure against early reservation check in would be more complicated than point to point seating, and while it is doablle, as many pointed out, might create as many problems as it solves.

 

[BCL]

Even in the ariline industry where assigned seating is common, not all carriers implement it the same way, or even at all. Southwest, a very successful operation with consistently high passenger satisfaction ratings, does not assign most seats, it boards by groups created by check in time, with the option of paying to be in the first group. Managing intermediate stop boarding and departure against early reservation check in would be more complicated than point to point seating, and while it is doablle, as many pointed out, might create as many problems as it solves.

Southwest does give families with young kids a break. They can board after the first group. This might also help when a family is spread across groups or even checked in at different times.

The family here must have been taking the Texas Eagle, right? I didn't see it mentioned in the article, but that's the only possibility where passengers would be sleeping en masses soon after boarding. I suppose other passengers could have been awoken to relocate and place this family together, but that's a tricky issue waking people up. Also, are there really going to be a lot of drunk passengers in the lounge less than an hour after departure? When would the cafe close for the night.

 

[the_traveler]

Yes, it was the SL/TE. It left LAX at 10 pm, and they boarded at the next stop about 1/2 hour later.

 

[mfastx]

This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.

Exactly. It can be done, and the way to do it is to have people pay extra to pick their seat, so most people wouldn't.

This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.

Because we are not Europe, and our politics are priorities are much different than Europe.

I'm not seeing the connection between that and Amtrak deciding to assign seats or not. Weird comment.

This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.

While there are many configurations of a B737, airlines know in advance what type of aircraft will fly on a specific route on a specific day. So if a B737-500 is scheduled, it will show a B737-500 seating configuration. If a B737-800 is scheduled, it will show a B737-800 configuration. If a B747-SP is scheduled, a B747-SP will be shown. If a B747-400 is scheduled, a B747-400 will be shown.
Can you imagine how confusing it would be to be shown he seating charts for "train 98, 1st car" "train 98, 2nd car", ... "train 98, 6th car". Then if the yard crew hooks up the train "wrong", putting the "3rd car" in the "5th car" spot, I'm sure passengers would complain. And how about if they have to substitute a car, like an 18 seat BC car for a 60 seat BC car. I'm sure you'll hear complaints from the couple who selected seats 45 & 46!

Does Amtrak really have that many seat configurations though? Take the Sunset for example. There's two Superliner coaches east of San Antonio every time. It doesn't seem like it'd be that hard.

This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.

I believe that it was pointed out that the numbers on the assigned coaches are subject to change depending on how the consist is assembled that day or week. You can't sell assigned seats until the car numbers are assigned and known.

In Europe, they assign them as being in "car 1, car 2," etc. Amtrak would have to have consistent consists for it to work on some routes with different types of coach cars. That's the only issue I can think of.

 

[PVD]

Families can board after the first group on SW, which basically says that people who are willing to pay for the privelige of going first still get priority. People just have to get it out of there heads that they deserve special treatment that everyone else should bear the costs (whether social or economic). The only legit exception would be for a disability or health consideration. You having 5 kids and wanting to travel with them is not everyone else's problem to solve.

 

[erierail]

Amtrak could have handled much better let's face it. Other carriers make an effort to move passengers around to accommodate a family. Most peoples don't mind changing seats to help out. I have seen this dozens of times on Southwest air lines and on other Amtrak trains. Separating families on a overnight trip in today's world us a lose lose for Amtrak.

 

[PVD]

Everyone is awake at the time of boarding a flight, or at the first stop on a train. I have gladly swapped seats, and even roomette assignments to help out. But if I was already unpacked and asleep, and you woke me up to move, my attitude would be a whole lot less accomodating.

 

[BCL]

Everyone is awake at the time of boarding a flight, or at the first stop on a train. I have gladly swapped seats, and even roomette assignments to help out. But if I was already unpacked and asleep, and you woke me up to move, my attitude would be a whole lot less accomodating.

I probably would have tried going to sleep immediately. This must have been the Texas Eagle, which departs LA at 10 PM and hits Pomona around 10:40. If the train was full, then I'm guessing there were a lot of solo passengers already seated. It would have been a scramble to try and move all of them. I don't think offering the lounge was a bad option. Is the cafe section even open at that point? Even if I had a bit to drink, I'd rather be at my seat than in the lounge car.

 

[CCC1007]

Everyone is awake at the time of boarding a flight, or at the first stop on a train. I have gladly swapped seats, and even roomette assignments to help out. But if I was already unpacked and asleep, and you woke me up to move, my attitude would be a whole lot less accomodating.

I probably would have tried going to sleep immediately. This must have been the Texas Eagle, which departs LA at 10 PM and hits Pomona around 10:40. If the train was full, then I'm guessing there were a lot of solo passengers already seated. It would have been a scramble to try and move all of them. I don't think offering the lounge was a bad option. Is the cafe section even open at that point? Even if I had a bit to drink, I'd rather be at my seat than in the lounge car.

The sunset limited is the train, with two cutoff cars for the eagle.

 

[BCL]

Everyone is awake at the time of boarding a flight, or at the first stop on a train. I have gladly swapped seats, and even roomette assignments to help out. But if I was already unpacked and asleep, and you woke me up to move, my attitude would be a whole lot less accomodating.

I probably would have tried going to sleep immediately. This must have been the Texas Eagle, which departs LA at 10 PM and hits Pomona around 10:40. If the train was full, then I'm guessing there were a lot of solo passengers already seated. It would have been a scramble to try and move all of them. I don't think offering the lounge was a bad option. Is the cafe section even open at that point? Even if I had a bit to drink, I'd rather be at my seat than in the lounge car.

The sunset limited is the train, with two cutoff cars for the eagle.

OK. I saw the schedule for the Texas Eagle at 10 PM from LA and 10:41 PM in Pomona. I thought that must have been it. In any case, is the cafe even open to serve alcohol? Perhaps she had experience seeing boozed out passengers in the lounge car before, but they're not going to be there near the beginning of the trip. By morning the coach attendant would have asked or or even ordered passengers to move to accommodate the family.

 

[Ryan]

It's the same train, two different names depending on what car you're in. Don't worry about the former correction, your point was clear.

 

[JoeBas]

The family here must have been taking the Texas Eagle, right? I didn't see it mentioned in the article, but that's the only possibility where passengers would be sleeping en masses soon after boarding. I suppose other passengers could have been awoken to relocate and place this family together, but that's a tricky issue waking people up. Also, are there really going to be a lot of drunk passengers in the lounge less than an hour after departure? When would the cafe close for the night.

If it's not enough time to get drunk, is it enough time to get "Properly sleeping en masse"?

Honestly, this sounds like a car attendant/conductor too "busy" to be arsed to do their job.

 

[PVD]

Not everyone here thinks it is their job to inconvenience one group of fare paying passengers to accomodate another group that could have avoided the problem by making a proper group reservation in the first place.

 

[caravanman]

Late to the bun fight as I am trying to keep the UK in Europe! (Anything to go against Mr. Trump's wishes...)

I am surprised that a warm hearted "Christian" nation like the U.S. can be so cold towards a mom and kids as young as 2.

Ed.

 

[BCL]

Not everyone here thinks it is their job to inconvenience one group of fare paying passengers to accomodate another group that could have avoided the problem by making a proper group reservation in the first place.

If she had been willing to wait until the morning, the coach attendant would have likely started moving people around. I thought that rearranging solo passengers to meet the needs of groups is pretty common.

 

[BCL]

Late to the bun fight as I am trying to keep the UK in Europe! (Anything to go against Mr. Trump's wishes...)

I am surprised that a warm hearted "Christian" nation like the U.S. can be so cold towards a mom and kids as young as 2.

Ed.

I thought the offer to let them sleep in the lounge was reasonable. Some of the smaller kids could have slept across the seats. It certainly wouldn't have been a drunk tank like mom was claiming. Everything would have been sorted out in the morning when the majority of the passengers were awake.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hope UKs Right Wing Hate Mongers Lose and the Brit's stay in the EU!

Based on what I've read here I'm with those who feel that the Mom should have stayed with the Kiddies in the Lounge until they could be seated close together in a Coach.

Perhaps the Conductors people skills need updating, there are some pretty crusty ones on the Trains, but also they can be very busy performing their duties on full trains that are just starting a LD Journey in the dark of night.

 

[VentureForth]

I think it's so ironic when jis mentions that the US has a third world rail system - when viewed from the eyes of one from India.

Most long distance trains in Japan are set up for unreserved/reserved/reserved Green Car (first class).

It ain't that hard to offer SOME seats reserved.

As far as the consist goes, don't most trains just number their cars like train number then car number? IE: Train 98, first coach would be something like 9801? Sleeper would change 3rd digit from 0 to 1, so 9811? It wouldn't matter what the consist is. If they add more cars, then they should know about it.

 

[seat38a]

Late to the bun fight as I am trying to keep the UK in Europe! (Anything to go against Mr. Trump's wishes...)

I am surprised that a warm hearted "Christian" nation like the U.S. can be so cold towards a mom and kids as young as 2.

Ed.

Because, there is a point where people just have enough with people burdening others with their problems. Especially when they choose to roll the dice and save money. This happens everywhere these days including on airplanes, where they choose to not pay for advanced seat assignment etc.. Being considerate goes both ways, and it does not excuse you, just because you have kids.

 

[BCL]

Late to the bun fight as I am trying to keep the UK in Europe! (Anything to go against Mr. Trump's wishes...)

I am surprised that a warm hearted "Christian" nation like the U.S. can be so cold towards a mom and kids as young as 2.

Ed.

Because, there is a point where people just have enough with people burdening others with their problems. Especially when they choose to roll the dice and save money. This happens everywhere these days including on airplanes, where they choose to not pay for advanced seat assignment etc.. Being considerate goes both ways, and it does not excuse you, just because you have kids.

The issue with airplanes is that there's now often an additional price for "premium" seats including exit rows, behind bulkheads, window, and aisle. How does it get handled on something like a 3+2 configuration?

 

[caravanman]

Certainly hope for a "remain" vote Jim! Won't know 'till tomorrow.

C'mon guys and girls, it 'aint rocket science. Do you want your kid to sit alone next to a stranger all night on a train? Nope!

If you have bought coach seat tickets you expect to sit in the coach with your kids, not in the lounge with the party folk...

It is simply about being kind, considerate. Everyone on this topic is talking about it with hindsight, nobody on the train got up to move, they did not care about the woman and kids, that it the astonishing fact. Even if you are saying "bad mom", 5 kids under 12 years of age were involved in being cold shouldered.

A woman and five kids with the same surnames getting on at the same stop, gosh, that is a coincidence... Where is Lt.Columbo when you need a mystery solving like "where would the best places to seat these same name young kids and adult be" ???

Anyway, back to the U.K. referendum

Ed.

 

[fairviewroad]

Because, there is a point where people just have enough with people burdening others with their problems. Especially when they choose to roll the dice and save money.

If you read the article it's clear that the dice being rolled was the "I choose to believe what an Amtrak agent told me" dice. The mother was told in advance that the reservations would be linked and that the entire family would be able to sit together.

It's absolutely correct to say that relying on the word of a phone or ticket agent about what will happen on the train is a huge gamble. It's too bad that's true.

 

[TinCan782]

As far as the consist goes, don't most trains just number their cars like train number then car number? IE: Train 98, first coach would be something like 9801? Sleeper would change 3rd digit from 0 to 1, so 9811? It wouldn't matter what the consist is. If they add more cars, then they should know about it.

Yes! I pointed that out on 21 June in Post #70 (Page 4).

Car numbers (as far as reservations go) are based on position in the consist, not the physical number (decal) on the car.

 

[HP_Lovecraft]

If you read the article it's clear that the dice being rolled was the "I choose to believe what an Amtrak agent told me" dice. The mother was told in advance that the reservations would be linked and that the entire family would be able to sit together.

That is the only part that I find odd. I would think that the agent would know that there would be no way to guarantee that everyone could sit together.

I have 6 kids, and travel with them on the train all the time. But usually in smaller groups. The limitations of the current systems means that I try to board at larger stations, as to get priority boarding. I'll use all the tricks at the bigger stations, like red-capping, or getting an acela pass. I know if I need to show up early and where to stand, etc.

Assigning seats would be nice for me, as it would ensure we would sit together, but not if it means adding a premium "tax" on that ability, as they do in europe. One thing I've noticed travelling in Europe is that if you book late, its much harder to sit together then it might be on amtrak.

Sometimes I've seen conductors do semi-assigning seats. I remember on the LSL, the conduction would group us by car depending on where we got off. Or on lots of trains the conductor would only allow seating on a limited set of cars, then gradually open the train up as they hit more and more stops, making it easier for groups to sit together, and thwart the seat hogs.

Seat hogs are a whole different issue. They can really screw up the current system. I seen so many seat hogs use the "sit down and pretend to fall asleep" trick.

 

[seat38a]

Because, there is a point where people just have enough with people burdening others with their problems. Especially when they choose to roll the dice and save money.

If you read the article it's clear that the dice being rolled was the "I choose to believe what an Amtrak agent told me" dice. The mother was told in advance that the reservations would be linked and that the entire family would be able to sit together.

It's absolutely correct to say that relying on the word of a phone or ticket agent about what will happen on the train is a huge gamble. It's too bad that's true.

And, agents NEVER guarantee anything in the last 3 years that I've called to change or have a noted added to my reservation. I've always been told, that they will make a note, but it NOT guaranteed. And quite frankly, were taking this woman's word without even verifying the truth or if she left couple important details out. From personal experience, she left couple minor details out regarding her conversation on the phone.