Mother with 5 kids kicked off Amtrak in middle of night

[Meat Puppet]

If Amtrak would come into the 20th century and let you pick your seat, or at least assign it ahead of time like they already do with sleepers, this would not have happened. Blame is squarely on Amtrak for this :angry2:

How would that have prevented this?

Here, they made separate reservations (the root of all their problems). So, even if one got to pick seats, one would only be able to pick the seats for that one reservation. There is no guarantee, that with any/all future additional reservations (made hours, weeks, months later), that seats immediately next to those already selected, will still be available.

Based on how the article reads, the reservations were made "separate" to save on the fares, but likely made at the same time so it is unlikely tons of seats would have gotten filled in between making the individual reservations.

You lost me. I can't think of a fare pricing situation where making two (or more) separate reservations, at the same time, for the same train, for the same date(s), could result in a lower combined fare.

That's why I was thinking they had to be made at different times.

If for example, there are 4 low bucket coach fares available and one books 5 coach seats....all 5 default to the higher bucket price. But if you book 4 coach and then seperatly book 1 coach, you would get 4 at the lower bucket and 1 at the next higher. I know this because I often travel with 3 people and booking 2 and then 1 is often cheaper than booking 3 together if only 2 seats remain at the lower bucket.

 

[ScouseAndy]

This is the precise reason why [at a premium] passengers should be able to select their seats or at least guaranteed that you will sit together. Straight away it managers peoples expectations and gives Amtrak a get out of jail free card when stories like this blow up in the media. (As well as generating extra $$'s to help stem the losses)

 

[niemi24s]

This is the precise reason why [at a premium] passengers should be able to select their seats or at least guaranteed that you will sit together.

Really? What if previous ticket holders have selected seats leaving only single and scattered single seats available? Should Amtrak add another coach just to accommodate a last-minute ticket buyer with, say, 5 children?

 

[Railroad Bill]

As mentioned she should have book all six seats together at the same time and this situation probably would have been avoided. When my model railroad club took our trip to Denver this spring, I booked eight of us on one reservation and we had the lower level seats on the Capitol Ltd. When our train arrived in CLE, the one coach had all seats on the LL ready for our group. The conductor guided us to the correct car and we were all seated together in 4 pairs of seats. He said his manifest noted all of us on one reservation and thus made the effort to keep us all in one car.

Perhaps if she had booked LLs on the Sunset, this would have worked out for them. :unsure:

 

[jis]

This is the precise reason why [at a premium] passengers should be able to select their seats or at least guaranteed that you will sit together.

Really? What if previous ticket holders have selected seats leaving only single and scattered single seats available? Should Amtrak add another coach just to accommodate a last-minute ticket buyer with, say, 5 children?

This is usually handled by not releasing all seats for pre-selection and in some cases charging an extra fee for the privilege of seat selection. If we are looking for solutions, there are many ways. OTOH if we are looking for excuses there are many too.
At the end of the day there will be some that won't get exactly what they want, but they will know ahead of time and expectations will be set properly. OTOH there will be many others who will be able to lock in what they desire.

 

[mfastx]

Eh, hard to really blame Amtrak if they bought reservations separately. BUT, I've traveled with someone on the SAME reservation and still had separate seats assigned by the conductor due to the train being extremely crowded.

The main issue here is the inability to select a seat at booking. This would solve a lot of problems like this.

 

[KmH]

This would solve a lot of problems like this.

And would create new problems, many of them not anticipated.

 

[jis]

This would solve a lot of problems like this.

And would create new problems, many of them not anticipated.

That is always true of any change. If that were a good enough reason to not do things we'd still be dancing around in caves making incoherent noises.

 

[ScouseAndy]

This is the precise reason why [at a premium] passengers should be able to select their seats or at least guaranteed that you will sit together.

Really? What if previous ticket holders have selected seats leaving only single and scattered single seats available? Should Amtrak add another coach just to accommodate a last-minute ticket buyer with, say, 5 children?

First come first served, but she knows before she pays that she wont be sitting all together and stops the stress, on say a 3 coach train, 2 could be reserved seating and 1 could be unreserved. If you don't actually guarantee seat numbers but just the fact that they will be guaranteed to sit together and allow a computer to actually work out all the pre booked guarantee seating and allocate them all a seat number 1 hour prior to departure from the original station and have this as the cut off point for purchasing guaranteed seating

 

[seat38a]

This is the precise reason why [at a premium] passengers should be able to select their seats or at least guaranteed that you will sit together. Straight away it managers peoples expectations and gives Amtrak a get out of jail free card when stories like this blow up in the media. (As well as generating extra $$'s to help stem the losses)

I've seen enough episodes of "The Railway - Keeping Britain On Track" to know that, even with a much more robust system as they have in the UK, the whole reserved seat system fails miserably when things go wrong on the system. Also, between the high ticket prices, and and government subsidies, you can have nice things like reserved seats. Your suggesting something that be done on a system that really has no money for anything, plus increased ticket prices would cause a revolt and subsidies are a non-starter.

 

[FormerOBS]

Unless things have changed, the Conductor gets a Manifest at the beginning of a trip, showing how many passengers are getting on and off at each stop. If a large group is booked, a "Transportation Notice" can be added, which would include that information. Then the Conductor can anticipate the need to hold a large number of adjacent seats for that group. If the reservations are made separately, the Manifest tells the Conductor how many individual people are getting on the train at a given stop; but there is no special Transportation Notice, so the Conductor has no way to know that 5 adjacent seats will be needed.

As in any service situation, the server can best accommodate the needs of the customer if plenty of info is provided in advance. It's harder to deal with unusual situations when they come as a surprise.

Just because Amtrak provided a refund, we should not conclude that Amtrak assumes blame. Refunds are often given as a good will gesture, even though Amtrak did not cause the problem.

Tom

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Eh, hard to really blame Amtrak if they bought reservations separately. BUT, I've traveled with someone on the SAME reservation and still had separate seats assigned by the conductor due to the train being extremely crowded.

The main issue here is the inability to select a seat at booking. This would solve a lot of problems like this.

They will usually block off seats for parties larger than 2 or 3.

 

[seat38a]

Unless things have changed, the Conductor gets a Manifest at the beginning of a trip, showing how many passengers are getting on and off at each stop. If a large group is booked, a "Transportation Notice" can be added, which would include that information. Then the Conductor can anticipate the need to hold a large number of adjacent seats for that group. If the reservations are made separately, the Manifest tells the Conductor how many individual people are getting on the train at a given stop; but there is no special Transportation Notice, so the Conductor has no way to know that 5 adjacent seats will be needed.

As in any service situation, the server can best accommodate the needs of the customer if plenty of info is provided in advance. It's harder to deal with unusual situations when they come as a surprise.

Just because Amtrak provided a refund, we should not conclude that Amtrak assumes blame. Refunds are often given as a good will gesture, even though Amtrak did not cause the problem.

Tom

We booked 4 on one reservation and the conductor was proactive and saved us group seating. I asked reservations to make a notation, especially if traveling with seniors or children. The mother tried to save money and it backfired on her.

DSC02505 by B H, on Flickr

 

[Eric S]

This is the precise reason why [at a premium] passengers should be able to select their seats or at least guaranteed that you will sit together.

Really? What if previous ticket holders have selected seats leaving only single and scattered single seats available? Should Amtrak add another coach just to accommodate a last-minute ticket buyer with, say, 5 children?

How is it any different than traveling by air (other than on airlines like Southwest)? Book late and you may only have scattered single seats.

 

[Eric S]

This is the precise reason why [at a premium] passengers should be able to select their seats or at least guaranteed that you will sit together. Straight away it managers peoples expectations and gives Amtrak a get out of jail free card when stories like this blow up in the media. (As well as generating extra $$'s to help stem the losses)

I've seen enough episodes of "The Railway - Keeping Britain On Track" to know that, even with a much more robust system as they have in the UK, the whole reserved seat system fails miserably when things go wrong on the system. Also, between the high ticket prices, and and government subsidies, you can have nice things like reserved seats. Your suggesting something that be done on a system that really has no money for anything, plus increased ticket prices would cause a revolt and subsidies are a non-starter.

I think the the point is that Amtrak could charge extra for reserved/assigned seats - instead of costing money it should generate revenue for Amtrak. (This assumes the reservation system is capable of this, of course.)

 

[ScouseAndy]

UK High ticket prices?

London to Edinburgh aprox 400 miles - 4hours 30 - 5hours standard class/1st class ticket with reservation starting £41.00/65.00 ($58.00/$93.00) traveling by Virgin East Coast Trains - a company which receives ZERO subsidies from the Government and actual is paying the UK tax payer a £3.3Billion premium over 8 years to run this route.

New York to Washington aprox 300 miles - 2 hours 20 - 3hours 40 minutes standard class/1st class with no reservations starting at $49.00/$284.00

 

[RSG]

UK High ticket prices?

London to Edinburgh aprox 400 miles - 4hours 30 - 5hours standard class/1st class ticket with reservation starting £41.00/65.00 ($58.00/$93.00) traveling by Virgin East Coast Trains - a company which receives ZERO subsidies from the Government and actual is paying the UK tax payer a £3.3Billion premium over 8 years to run this route.

New York to Washington aprox 300 miles - 2 hours 20 - 3hours 40 minutes standard class/1st class with no reservations starting at $49.00/$284.00

Hmmm...maybe Richard Branson is bored after selling Virgin America. Perhaps we could get him to start Virgin Rail USA!

 

[RSG]

Just because Amtrak provided a refund, we should not conclude that Amtrak assumes blame. Refunds are often given as a good will gesture, even though Amtrak did not cause the problem.

Even though in the eyes of the people reporting and viewing this story (and perhaps even in the eyes of the mother herself), this is exactly what the perception will be. :mellow:

 

[blackpup]

This is one reason why I booked a roomette, so I'm guaranteed my spouse and I can sit together. On my one 4 hour Amtrak trip in coach, we ended up having aisle seats and having to seat about 4 rows from each other. The nice guy with the window seat volunteered to swap seats though.

It would be nice if Amtrak had assigned seating, but, with a train, unlike a plane, people are getting on and off all the time, so I can see how that wouldn't work. But I think if you are on a train for the entire segment riding coach, like Chi to Was on the CL, then I think then you should be able to choose your own seats.

 

[the_traveler]

Maybe that would work (CHI-WAS), but where do you draw the line? :huh: How about if one is going CHI-Rockville (1 stop before and a suburb of WAS)?

Or if this lady was going to CHI or NOL. She boarded at Pomona (1 stop after it started in LAX), so she couldn't get the assigned seats (because she is not going end to end)!

 

[A Voice]

This is the precise reason why [at a premium] passengers should be able to select their seats or at least guaranteed that you will sit together.

Really? What if previous ticket holders have selected seats leaving only single and scattered single seats available? Should Amtrak add another coach just to accommodate a last-minute ticket buyer with, say, 5 children?

How is it any different than traveling by air (other than on airlines like Southwest)? Book late and you may only have scattered single seats.

The difference is that airlines typically do not have passengers boarding and getting off at intermediate points, which greatly complicates the seat selection (or assignment) process.

 

[Hal]

Unless things have changed, the Conductor gets a Manifest at the beginning of a trip, showing how many passengers are getting on and off at each stop. If a large group is booked, a "Transportation Notice" can be added, which would include that information. Then the Conductor can anticipate the need to hold a large number of adjacent seats for that group. If the reservations are made separately, the Manifest tells the Conductor how many individual people are getting on the train at a given stop; but there is no special Transportation Notice, so the Conductor has no way to know that 5 adjacent seats will be needed.

As in any service situation, the server can best accommodate the needs of the customer if plenty of info is provided in advance. It's harder to deal with unusual situations when they come as a surprise.

Just because Amtrak provided a refund, we should not conclude that Amtrak assumes blame. Refunds are often given as a good will gesture, even though Amtrak did not cause the problem.

Tom

We booked 4 on one reservation and the conductor was proactive and saved us group seating. I asked reservations to make a notation, especially if traveling with seniors or children. The mother tried to save money and it backfired on her. DSC02505 by B H, on Flickr

When you book on one reservation the conductor and the OBS attendant can be proactive as they will see you are traveling together even if there is no notation. They do go over the manifests in the job briefings and plan seating arrangements.

Separate reservations can accomplish letting the crew know, by making a special assistance request that passengers are on separate reservations and wish to be seated together. Happens all the time. It will say something like Jane Doe, Mary Doe, Sue Doe, on Res. 123 traveling with John Deer on Res. 456. Please seat together.

 

[mfastx]

And would create new problems, many of them not anticipated.

It's done successfully in Europe. The trick is to offer the option to select your seat at an additional cost. That way, not everyone selects their seats beforehand.

 

[StriderGDM]

Given this mother was apparently doing it on the cheap, I don't think such an option would have helped.

 

[Eric S]

This is the precise reason why [at a premium] passengers should be able to select their seats or at least guaranteed that you will sit together.

Really? What if previous ticket holders have selected seats leaving only single and scattered single seats available? Should Amtrak add another coach just to accommodate a last-minute ticket buyer with, say, 5 children?

How is it any different than traveling by air (other than on airlines like Southwest)? Book late and you may only have scattered single seats.

The difference is that airlines typically do not have passengers boarding and getting off at intermediate points, which greatly complicates the seat selection (or assignment) process.

Yes, but as far as the customer/passenger is concerned, it's not much different - if you book early, there may well be 5 seats together(ish); if you book late, there will may well only be scattered single seats.