Largest Metros Without Amtrak Service (How to Serve Them?)

[neroden]

Damn Kasich. We could have had Cincy-Columbus-Cleveland up and running by now if not for him.

 

[The 3 Ducks Quacking]

Going with Palmetto's idea: What if we were able to do Los Angeles - Phoenix - Albuquerque? Would that be much longer in time than the current SWC route between LAX and Albuquerque? That would open up a huge market to the route.

Open up a rail map of Arizona + New Mexico, and the answer will become clear as night follows a day to anyone.

Why do you think there will be a huge market on a slow and meandering route through the sticks where very few people live, and where they can drive way quicker on relatively unclogged highways than taking the train?

According the the map, there is no connection from the UP to the BNSF in Phoenix that would allow that, and there seems not to any room to build one either, unfortunately.

One practical way to do it would be using the Deming - (Southwest Railroad Short Line) - Rincon - (BNSF) - Belen - (BNSF) - Albuquerque route. At least the riders will get a good grand tour of 2/3rds of New Mexico in the process, while they slowly meander along the Short Line

I believe the BNSF line from El Paso to Belen, which this rotue would join at Rincon, is in very good condition, but BNSF may have a conniption if someone proposed running a passenger train on it. The connection to this route at El paso faces the wrong way for a train coming from Tucson.

The other would be to run in reverse from Phoenix to Drake on the Arizona Central, slowly, and then reverse direction so that one is moving forward again on BNSF joining the BNSF main line at West Williams jct, and then to ABQ. This has the advantage of using established BNSF route including Williams and Flagstaff on the route, but would probably be sow as dickens.

All this assumes of coruse that the connection from Roll to Arlington ( that is the actual portion between Phoenix and Welton that is out of service) over the old SP main is restored allowing trains to come to Phoenix from the west.

It needs to be remembered that most likely after 12/31/2018 all passenger trains will have to run on lines PTC equipped. The best you can hope for is all new rail line with PTC with no grade crossings and all rail crossings will be fly overs. The curves will be much broader than the freight lines have.

 

[railgeekteen]

If Oregon ever wanted to put in real money (sigh) a reroute over the Medford route would be very successful. Klamath Falls is no loss. The Medford route needs a lot of money to bring it up to decent speeds, though, and I just don't see Oregon putting in the money in the next decade or two.

How is it no loss?

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

If Oregon ever wanted to put in real money (sigh) a reroute over the Medford route would be very successful. Klamath Falls is no loss. The Medford route needs a lot of money to bring it up to decent speeds, though, and I just don't see Oregon putting in the money in the next decade or two.

How is it no loss?

I think the point was that the reroute would serve several small cities and a lot more population than the current route.

 

[railgeekteen]

I'm going to take a stab at this

Las Vegas-Desert Wind

Columbus-3C service or a revived National Limited

Nashville-bring back the Floridan

Louisville-same as above

Tulsa-extended the Heartland Flyer

Knoxville-new Floridan via Cincinnati

Allentown-service from New York to Harrisburg via Allentown and Reading

Baton Rouge-service to New Orleans

McAllen-Texas Eagle extension

Dayton-3C or National Limited

Sarasota-extend the Silver Star

Fort Myers-train to Tampa

Colorado Springs-Front Range service

Boise-bring back the Pioneer

Des Moines-my Chicago-Denver route

Augusta-reroute the Silver Star

Melbourne-Florida East Coast route

Scranton-service to NYC

Youngstown-reroute the Capitol Limited

Chattanooga-bring back a rerouted Floridan

Fayetteville-service to Little Rock via Fort Smith

Tri Cities TN-extend the Northeast Regional Roanoke trains

Santa Rosa-Service to the Bay Area? I honestly have no clue

Lexington KY-new Floridan via Cincinnati

Pensacola-bring back the Sunset East

Shreveport – Bossier City-branch of the Crescent

Springfield, Missouri-service from St Louis or Kansas City

Corpus Christi-extend the Texas Eagle

Asheville, North Carolina-train from Charlotte

Huntsville, Alabama-Service from Nashville and Atlanta?

Gulfport – Biloxi – Pascagoula, Mississippi-Sunset East

Brownsville, Texas-extend the Texas Eagle

Mobile, Alabama-Sunset East

Manchester – Nashua, New Hampshire- Boston-Montreal train

Salisbury – Ocean City, Maryland-Train to NYC via Dover and Philly

Myrtle Beach, South Carolina-Train to DC? No good routes to here.

Saginaw, Michigan-Train to Detroit or Chicago via Flint

Quad Cities area (Davenport/Bettendorf, Iowa, Rock Island/Moline, Illinois)-proposed service, also on my Chicago-Denver route

Peoria, Illinois-train to Chicago

Montgomery, Alabama-bring back the Gulf Breeze

Tallahassee, Florida-Sunset East

Appleton – Oshkosh – Neenah, Wisconsin- Chicago to Green Bay train

Rockford, Illinois-Black Hawk

Ocala, Florida-new Tampa-Jacksonville train

Midland – Odessa, Texas- Dallas-El Paso train

Evansville, Indiana-train to Chicago or Indianapolis

Green Bay-train to Chicago

Lubbock, Texas-Caprock Chief

Clarksville, Tennessee-Train to Nashville? I don't know.

Fort Smith, Arkansas-train to Little Rock

Duluth, Minnesota-bring back the North Star

Gainesville, Florida-Train to Jacksonville?

Wilmington, North Carolina-train to Charlotte

Cedar Rapids, Iowa-train to Chicago

Laredo, Texas- US-Mexico train

Amarillo, Texas-Caprock Chief

Binghamton, New York-my proposed Southern Tier service between New York and Chicago

Yakima, Washington-train to Seattle

Sioux Falls, South Dakota-train to the Twin Cities

College Station – Bryan, Texas-bring back the Lone Star, or just a Dallas-Houston train

Macon, Georgia-rerouted Floridian

Rochester, Minnesota-reroute the Empire Builder, or solo train to the Twin Cities

There are some more cities, but I will resume latter.

 

[neroden]

For Binghamton, NY, I have local knowledge: the desirable route is Hoboken-Scranton (via the Lackawanna Cutoff), Scranton-Binghamton, Binghamton-Cortland-Syracuse. Network effects abound.

 

[Pere Flyer]

Grand Rapids-Lansing-Ann Arbor-Detroit.

“The Palm Reader”

No idea how the trackage would work, but connecting four of the most populous Mitten cities by rail makes 100 percent sense. We don’t all want only to go to Chicago.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[SarahZ]

Grand Rapids-Lansing-Ann Arbor-Detroit.

“The Palm Reader”

It took me a second to catch it, but I love that name.

 

[jis]

As for the cities in Florida, Florida State actually has a passenger rail plan a quick look at that tempered by current realities suggests:

Ocala - unlikely to get passenger service unless someone funds adding a second track to the CSX ROW. The deal that transferred the route segment Deland - Orlando - Poinciana to CFRC (Sunrail) involved giving up passenger train access to the CSX route through Ocala.

Gainesville - No chance absent construction of a completely new railroad. Access was via Waldo for Amtrak. Waldo has the same problem as Ocala.

Tallahassee - to be served by New Orleans - Orlando service that is in advanced stages of planning.

Pensacola - to be served by New Orleans - Orlando service that is in advanced stages of planning.

Melbourne - will be served by the Coca/Rockledge Brightline station that is in advanced stages of planning. The entire Space Coast plus a bit of northern Treasure Coast will probably start with a single station, and get a second one much later. The first station most likely will be in Cocoa/Rockledge. The second, if it happens will likely be in the Melbourne/Palm Bay area.

St. Petersburg - Someday may be served by Tampa-St. Pete area local transit rail. Unlikely to be served by intercity.

Sarasota - Part of the Florida plan, not clear who or how at present

Ft. Myers - Part of Florida plan. Not clear who or how at present

St. Augustine - Most likely to be served by Brightline JAX extension if/when that happens.

Daytona - Most likely to be served by Brightline JAX extension if and when that happens. There is also an on again/off again proposal for extending Sunrail some day using new trackage along the I-4 ROW from the DeBary area.

An Amtrak routing down FECR is not dead yet, but is on the back burner. With an appropriate Governor and legislature in place in Florida it might happen. No chance with the current Florida State government. But things might change in a big way come November.

 

[Eric S]

Grand Rapids-Lansing-Ann Arbor-Detroit.

“The Palm Reader”

No idea how the trackage would work, but connecting four of the most populous Mitten cities by rail makes 100 percent sense. We don’t all want only to go to Chicago.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

Here's a link to an MDOT study from a couple years ago, if you want to dig into the route options looked at for this service:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/Coast-to-Coast_Passenger_Rail_Study_-_Feb_2016-ss_516441_7.pdf

 

[jis]

It needs to be remembered that most likely after 12/31/2018 all passenger trains will have to run on lines PTC equipped. The best you can hope for is all new rail line with PTC with no grade crossings and all rail crossings will be fly overs. The curves will be much broader than the freight lines have.

There is no need to remember that since that is simply not true since that is not what the law says. Go and read the CFR and then come back and tell that to use again. Stop making nonsensical claims please.

 

[neroden]

Relevant to Ohio, Kasich is not running for re-election (thank goodness). Of note, Mike DeWine, who is likely to become the Republican candidate, has a history of supporting both Amtrak and High-Speed Rail plans. (If his primary opponent, Mary Taylor, wins, I would expect her to be hostile to rail; she's never mentioned it but she was Kasich's lieutenant governor.)

The most likely Democratic candidate, Richard Cordray, probably will support Amtrak and high-speed rail, since the whole Ohio Democratic Party usually does. (The other likely candidate, Kucinich, definitely would.)

So we may finally have a chance to make some progress in Ohio. Worth getting started on...