Help needed with long distance Amtrak trip planning

[Sharky]

Hello all

This January, I flen in from England and I took the Cardinal from NYP to CHI, then connected through to the CZ. I travelled on my own in a Roomette and the trip was the best train journey I'd ever taken and one of the best things that I'd ever done.

I enjoyed it so much, that I am looking at doing another LD trip early in 2025. It was quite straightforward until my adult son has asked if he can come with me on the trip.
We are both big units at 250lb each with me being 6ft 3in and him being 6ft 6in, so sharing a roomette isn't really going to work for us !
The only time that we can really do the trip is in January. The plus being that the cost will be easier on my pocket, the minus being that the days are shorter and weather realted travel disruption being more possible.
I'm keen to do as much Traditional dining as possible and to keep flexible dining to a minimum.
At the dates I'm currently looking at 2 roomettes would save me about $1400 rather than booking a bedroom and I'm thinking that a bedroom would be a better alternative, as otherwise we'll (naturally) be travelling seperate to each other, which isn't really the idea of the trip. Another option (on some routes) is a Family Bedroom which is comimg in at the same price as a Bedroom - look at the FB, or stick with the "standard" bedroom. The prices that I'm looking at currently and all in the highest price bracket and are rather, cough, ahem on the pricey side.

My current thinking is to take the Silver Meteor from Miami to New York**, which gives us 4 and a bit hours in New York, then Lake Shore Limited to Chicago, just shy of 5 hours in Chicago, then Empire Builder to Seattle/Portland (most likely Seattle). Decent connection times at both stations. Flexible dining only on the LSL. ** there is the option of taking the Silver Meteor to Washington DC and then going on the Cardinal - this would be a bit easier on my pocket, but I went on the Cardinal this year ! On both options, the train trip length is about 102 hours.

Am I setting myself up for a fall with this trip, or is it realistically doable ?

If anyone else has other potential VLD trips, then please pitch in, as the Miami to Seattle idea isn't set in stone.

Cheers Sharky

p.s. my starting & ending stations need to be located to decentish sized airports, so that (hopefully) I can get to/from the US on 2 flights, rather than 3 or 4

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

In the winter, people driving across the country prefer the more southern route depending on starting and ending points. I don't know how people feel about winter considerations on Amtrak's three cross-country routes. Not considering the season, the southern route ranks last in most people's estimation, with the best being the middle route through Denver.

One idea: fly to Philly or Baltimore, take the train to Miami. If you are doing a rail pass, stop off at Savannah. It's as charming as New Orleans, without the excess. Then take the Brightline train to Orlando airport and get a flight to New Orleans! Connecting by train MIA-NOL would depend on the typical winter track work on the Crescent, and even then the fastest route is 58 hours, with two connections in North Carolina. When I took that flight I got to see the Deepwater Horizon oil rig on fire, so that's some southern charm.

From New Orleans to Los Angeles, I'd say stop off at Santa Fe, NM, from the Albuquerque station by the Rail Runner commuter train. There's also an Amtrak bus. New Mexico is the most interesting state on the route in some ways. It's the subtle one. The folk museum in Albuquerque might be the best thing of its sort on the trip. (You can also find your way to your countryman D.H. Lawrence's shrine and home in Taos.) The Utah quadrant of the Four Corners area is spectacular, right out of a Warner Brothers cartoon, but not accessible by train. Once on the West Coast, that's up to you. L.A. has a museum literally built on tar pits with dinosaur bones, right in the middle of the city, between downtown and the beaches. The tar oozes up beside the sidewalks in the surrounding nice neighborhood (in very small quantities).

All that said, the winter scenery on the Zephyr and Empire Builder are both great. If you're going to, or through, New York City, the train from Albany (say, the Lake Shore Ltd.), on the Hudson River, is scenic enough to be in many movies. Switch to the commuter train at Croton or Yonkers and there are many towns that people like to visit on weekends, and which won't be so busy in the winter. Tarrytown has Chagall's windows at the Union Church of Pocantico Hills, with a talk. Also there is the Legend of Sleepy Hollow and the headless horseman. I guess it's not just the South with the charm. The Vermont trains also are known for the views.

Stopping at Glacier National Park in Montana would be an adventure. Bring some equipment. Visiting in Winter.

 

[Bob Dylan]

You could fly to Washington and take the Cap Ltd ( Superliner Equipped) to CHI, but this Train serves Flex Meals and has no Sightseee Lounge.

As for booking 2 Roomettes, you have to call, but you can arrange to get roomettes across from each other so you can see out both sides of the Train when there is no Lounge Car.

Another option would be to fly to Chicago and take the Empire Builder to Seattle,, or the Southwest Cheif to LA, then the Coast Starlight up the Coast to Seattle. ( I recommend this highly since you've been on the Zephyr)

Both are Superliner equipped Trains and serve Traditional Dinning in the Diner.

 

[Traveller]

Personal opinions.

Are you taking this trip in winter to view the US in the snow, or just the time available to you? If the latter why not take the southern trip by flying into New York City, south to New Orleans and then across to Los Angeles, you get to see many different types of America on this route. If you want some of the real Californian dream route then add LA to San Francisco on the Surfliner, it's everything you ever imagined southern California to be.

Flights to NYC from London are about as resaonable as you can get, flights to/from LA or San Francisco to London are almost the same price as from Chicago.

As a Brit my view is the Amtrak traditional diner is the heart of any Amtrak train, you can't help but meet American people there, and eating while the US in all it's glory is passing the window is priceless.

If you are looking for winter views the Empire Builder is hard to beat.

Good luck

 

[MARC Rider]

If you are looking for winter views the Empire Builder is hard to beat.

On the other hand, the winter weather can sometimes make the Empire Builder a bit unreliable die to cancellations because of blizzards, very cold weather, etc. I'm not sure if the California Zephyr is more reliable, but you do see a lot of good snowy scenery while crossing the Rockies and the Sierra Nevada. Of course, the Sunset Limited through Texas, southern New Mexico and Arizona will have the least chance of cold weather messing up the schedule.

 

[Sharky]

Thank you for all of your kind suggestions so far. My work arrangements mean that January really is the only option for me. We're looking at a long distance train trip and aren't bothered about stopping off en route to explore anywhere. Chicago to Seatte via the Texas Eagle and Coast Starlight was one of my original ideas, which for some reason I'd forgotten about (not being regarded as a scenic route, or flex dining from Chi - to San Antonio maybe). I've just priced up a random date for next Jan and it is much (much !) cheaper than the other trip.
What are people thoughts on Family Bedrooms over "standard" bedrooms ? On the Texas Eagle and Coast Starlight combo, the standard bedrooms are currently $600 more expensive than Family bedrooms.

I looked at the SouthWest Chief & Coast Startlight combo, but the sub 2 hour connection in LA put me off !

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

From New Orleans to Los Angeles, I'd say stop off at Santa Fe, NM, from the Albuquerque station by the Rail Runner commuter train. There's also an Amtrak bus. New Mexico is the most interesting state on the route in some ways. It's the subtle one. The folk museum in Albuquerque might be the best thing of its sort on the trip. (You can also find your way to your countryman D.H. Lawrence's shrine and home in Taos.) The Utah quadrant of the Four Corners area is spectacular, right out of a Warner Brothers cartoon, but not accessible by train.

The problem with this is if you take the Sunset it is not easy to get to Albuquerque as the Sunset goes through the southern part of NM (Deming, Lordsburg). Unless there is a bus connection. You might have to rent a car.

 

[tgstubbs1]

I looked at the SouthWest Chief & Coast Startlight combo, but the sub 2 hour connection in LA put me off !

If you book the connection I doubt it would be a problem. If you want you could stay in southern California and get a rail pass for local travel. You could board the CS in a number of places.

 

[Sharky]

Texas Eagle from LAS to CHI, overnight in CHI then Empire Builder to PDX or more likely SEA (better flight connections home). The TE makes this trip much easier on the pocket, plenty of travel time, plus the scenary of the EB to enjoy. With the TE leaving LAS at 10pm, its eminently doable to take an early flight from the UK and then get the TE on the same day.

 

[Cal]

I think for your situation the two roomettes is the best idea. You can both be in the same during the day, but each have your own space at night with no worries of climbing to the upper bunk. Plus you can hopefully get them side-by-side and have easy access to both sides of the train for viewing.


I would avoid the Empire Builder in January, it often gets very late or cancelled due to snow. I think the Miami trip would be great, but do the Southwest Chief instead of the Empire Builder. it gets you to see a lot of America and a lot of traditional dining.

The Coast Starlight is an excellent route (probably my favorite - although I have not been on the Zephyr) that runs between Seattle and Los Angeles. The only problem with taking it is that I am unsure if there are any direct London flights from Seattle.

The Sunset Limited is a pretty nice route from Los Angeles to New Orleans, but all other trains out of New Orleans have flexible dining and New Orleans also is not a big international hub for airlines.

There are a lot of options, but I honestly that the Silver Meteor/Lake Shore Limited/Southwest Chief would give you an excellent blend of scenery and trains, along with maximizing traditional dining and European connections.

 

[Cal]

Texas Eagle from LAS to CHI, overnight in CHI then Empire Builder to PDX or more likely SEA (better flight connections home). The TE makes this trip much easier on the pocket, plenty of travel time, plus the scenary of the EB to enjoy. With the TE leaving LAS at 10pm, its eminently doable to take an early flight from the UK and then get the TE on the same day.

The Texas Eagle has flex dining from San Antonio to Chicago, which I believe means 5 flex meals (although you can have a later lunch on arrival day in Chicago). I also think the TE from San Antonio to Chicago has no Sightseer Lounge. There is great scenery and it's a lovely ride, but I think that there are definitely better options.

I also think avoiding the Empire Builder in the winter is best.

 

[Brian Battuello]

Lots of permutations. Couple of thoughts. First, if you proceed as originally suggested, perhaps plan to spend 28 hours in NYC rather than a four hour connection? Unless you've been to NYC so often that you're bored of it, there are tons of things to do and well worth a hotel room. Back when I did long multi-leg trips I tried to break them up with hotels every few nights. Similarly for Chicago, amazing museums including the world famous Museum of Science and Industry, which is a must. Not enough time to do it on a connection.

If you've done the CZ, I'd slightly prefer the Chief to the Builder, both have scenery but the Chief has a lot more desert which is interesting in its own way. But you won't go wrong either way.

The later in January the better, because the days start getting longer. If you can push it into early February even better.

Keep us posted!

 

[oregon pioneer]

The Empire Builder is my home train, so I am going to point out that the most important thing in winter is that you need to travel EASTbound for views of the Rockies in daylight. Of course, if you go westbound, you will get daylight views of the Cascades or the Columbia Gorge, but not the Rockies, so there's that tradeoff.

For my money, in January, I'd take the Coast Starlight from LAX to Portland or Seattle, then the Empire Builder eastbound from there to Chicago. The Lake Shore Limited is quite pleasant, but it's not spectacular, and as you say the dining is not a great experience.

And yes, chances are good that you will miss a connection to the Empire Builder or be delayed by storms. If your connection is guaranteed, you will most likely get a free hotel room. On the negative side, I've seen trains cancelled with no alternative transportation offered, meaning no free hotel either. If they do that, there will be advance notice so you are not "stuck."

I'm inclined to agree with those who like the SW Chief for January. I think the connections and daylight scenery viewing work better to start in CHI, do the SW Chief to LAX, transfer to the Coast Starlight, and head north to Seattle. There used to be "Polar route" flights from Seattle to London, and I'll bet there still are.

 

[Sharky]

It's all rather good fun weighing up the pros and cons ! SWChief to Coast Starlight has a buttock clenching 1hr 51 min connection in LAX, CS to EB has 1hr 5m in Portland - ouch !

When I'm playing the planning game, I'm looking at flights home for the following late afternoon/evening. I live in Northern England, so there is a good service from (say) SEA to various european aiports and then a connecting flight to MAN, EDI, GLA, NCL or MME. If i was to fly back from (say) PDX, then I'd need at least 3 flights to get me home.

 

[Cal]

It's all rather good fun weighing up the pros and cons ! SWChief to Coast Starlight has a buttock clenching 1hr 51 min connection in LAX, CS to EB has 1hr 5m in Portland - ouch !

When I'm playing the planning game, I'm looking at flights home for the following late afternoon/evening. I live in Northern England, so there is a good service from (say) SEA to various european aiports and then a connecting flight to MAN, EDI, GLA, NCL or MME. If i was to fly back from (say) PDX, then I'd need at least 3 flights to get me home.

Chief to Starlight connection is guaranteed, the Starlight also is not cancelled outright all that often. I think you'd be safe taking it. However, the flights is a good point.

 

[amy1277]

I traveled New York to Orlando on the Silver Meteor with my teenage son. I booked 2 roomettes and then called and requested that they be directly across from one another.
During the day, we just kept the doors open most of the time and chatted, but then each of us had the space and privacy to accommodate our own sleep schedule and just be more comfortable overall.
Just an option for you to consider if the cost is comparable to one bedroom anyway!

 

[Traveller]

It's all rather good fun weighing up the pros and cons ! SWChief to Coast Starlight has a buttock clenching 1hr 51 min connection in LAX, CS to EB has 1hr 5m in Portland - ouch !

When I'm playing the planning game, I'm looking at flights home for the following late afternoon/evening. I live in Northern England, so there is a good service from (say) SEA to various european aiports and then a connecting flight to MAN, EDI, GLA, NCL or MME. If i was to fly back from (say) PDX, then I'd need at least 3 flights to get me home.

Have you thought of flying back to Dublin?

 

[MarkInAustin]

Random thoughts:

If you choose the Southwest Chief you get to ABQ mid afternoon. As mentioned above, the commuter train from ABQ to Santa Fe is an easy option. NM can be cold and snowy in the winter; especially in Santa Fe which is at about 7000 ft. altitude. If you snow ski, this is the way to go. My daughter and son-in-law live in Santa Fe [and my son-in-law hails from Bath, UK]. So I visit as much as I can, and it is a great town for visiting. But walking during wind driven snow is no picnic. Skiing, on the other hand, is great.

Or to avoid snow - the Texas Eagle. Boring bad food from Chicago to San Antonio. You can definitely consider San Antonio as a touring stop. Lots to do and eat. Not an expensive city. Take a look at a tour guide. Consider Tucson. Again, take a look at a tour guide. I recommend the University of Arizona campus, especially its museum. But there is lots to see nearby and it is also not an expensive city.

The must train in winter for me would be the Coast Starlight. Go north from Los Angeles. You might stopover in Santa Barbara or San Luis Obispo. Not cheap, but interesting and pretty. We really prefer SLO. The Farmer's Market on Thursday nights is amazing. But you could just spend a little time in LA and San Francisco.

On the California Zephyr, your scenery is from San Francisco to Denver, and your daylight viewing is eastbound. In winter, I would fly back to the UK from San Francisco after spending some time in that city. But you could take your chances and take the CZ back to Denver, for the viewing. I don't know what air connections are like from Denver to London, but if they are decent you would have "finished" the scenery at Denver.

https://www.pacificsurfliner.com/destinations/san-luis-obispo/

 

[caravanman]

Like yourself, previously, I have often taken my annual leave in January, to get over the exhausting chaos of Xmas. ( No, I wasn't employed as Father Xmas, but I did run a fancy dress hire shop...)

I also wanted to ride routes end to end, rather than stopping off to view places en-route.

I tended to fly to Chicago, as many Amtrak trains start there. How many days do you have to play with?

You may have been lucky with your previous trip, Amtrak timekeeping is very hit and miss. I tend to book an overnight in an economy hotel between each leg, it reduces "on time" stress, and usually allows one to better enjoy the following train ride.

The Zephyr is hands down my favourite Amtrak train, I must have ridden it half a dozen times at least.

I would pay heed to folks warnings about the Empire builder over adverse winter weather, the northern US can have much fiercer winters than the UK, usually.

I appreciate that you may not want to ride the Zephyr again, but taking it from Chicago, or indeed Denver, allows much more lea-way to connect to the northbound Starlight at Sacramento.

You have a clean slate of options, if you rule out the least desirable, then what remains may be the best to suit your circumstances.

Bon Voyage, I am envious!

 

[Maglev]

I have traveled in the Family Bedroom three times: once (San Jose-Seattle) with my wife, once (Seattle-St. Paul) alone, and once (St.Paul-Seattle) with my sister. The room is very spacious, and has (small) windows on both sides. When traveling with someone else, we each tended to each sit by a window, so we were about nine feet apart, but it was still easy to carry on conversations. The location of the room has many advantages: very little traffic in the hallway; and close to the luggage rack, door, three toilets and the shower. You can clean your windows at certain stops. Plus, it is the only room on Amtrak with a swinging door that latches shut when you leave (all other rooms have sliding doors that only latch from the inside and which tend to slide open when one is out of the room). Disadvantages are the small windows, somewhat awkward layout (just one long couch) and of course lack of private toilet/shower.

I usually travel in a regular Bedroom. Except Bedroom A (which I like for solo travel), they have a space in front of the bathroom where one can actually maneuver to get dressed (unlike a Roomette which has very little floor space). The seating layout is very congenial: one person sits on the (slightly uncomfortable) folding chair, while the other has the couch where they may recline lengthwise if desired. There is a large window, and if there is something important to view out the other side there is limited visibility from the room and usually no problem standing in the hall outside to look out the windows. When the lower berth is down, there is very little space to get out of the room. But you have your own toilet in the room, so unlike the Family Bedroom (which has plenty of room to get out at night) you don't need to go out at night. I don't use the shower in Bedrooms: I like to keep my toilet dry, and use the more spacious shower downstairs.

Family Bedrooms and regular Bedrooms both have 3' 4" wide lower berths and 2' 4" wide upper berths. In Superliners, there is very little headroom and no window for the upper berth. I find the upper berth cramped, the mattress hard, and access somewhat difficult. But I am willing to put up with it for the thrill of riding with a companion.

I have not traveled with someone else in another Roomette (presumably across the hall), so I don't know how conversation works. It is a bit uncomfortable for two people to sit in a Roomette, and the upper berth of especially a Superliner Roomette is very cramped. But two Roomettes would perhaps offer the best sleeping arrangement for two big people, unless you get a Bedroom Suite (two adjoining Bedrooms).

edit to add: be sure to call to book two Roomettes across from each other, and don't try to switch after booking online.

 

[Sharky]

I traveled New York to Orlando on the Silver Meteor with my teenage son. I booked 2 roomettes and then called and requested that they be directly across from one another.
During the day, we just kept the doors open most of the time and chatted, but then each of us had the space and privacy to accommodate our own sleep schedule and just be more comfortable overall.
Just an option for you to consider if the cost is comparable to one bedroom anyway!

That's a really valid suggestion and very relevant.

From these examples, the FB on the TE are much better value than 2 x roomettes, but on the SWC, it's the Roomettes that work out much better than the FB.
For fair comparison purposes, I tried to do as similar dates as possible, for Jan 2025. I realise that as and when bucket groups change, things can alter quite dramatically.

Date	From	To	Train	arr	Family Bed	Bedroom	Roomette x2
Sun 05.01 13.55	CHI	LAX	TE	Wed 08.01 05.35	1654​	2211​	1844​
Wed 08.01 09.51	LAX	SEA	CS	Thu 09.01 19.51	1632​	2006​	1770​
					3286​	4217​	3614​
Sun 05.01 14.50	CHI	LAX	SWC	Tue 07.01 08.00	2144​	1911​	1298​
Tue 07.01 09.51	LAX	SEA	CS	Wed 08.01 19.51	1632​	2006​	1730​
					3776​	3917​	3028​
Wed 08.01 09.50	SEA	LAX	CS	Thu 09.01 21.11	1632​	2006​	1770​
Fri 10.0.01 22.00	LAX	CHI	TE	Mon 13.01 13.42	1654​	1911​	1844​
					3286​	3917​	3614​
Sun 05.01 09.50	SEA	LAX	CS	Mon 06.01 21.11	1632​	2006​	1770​
Tue 07.01 17.55	LAX	CHI	SWC	Thu 09.01 14.50	2144​	1911​	1298​
					3776​	3917​	3068​

On this routing, the differences are even more pronounced.

Date	From	To	Train	arr	Family Bed	Bedroom	Roomette x2
Sun 05.01 10pm	LAX	CHI	TE	Wed 08.01 13.42	1654​	1911​	1844​
Thu 09.01 15.05	CHI	SEA	EB	Sat 11.01 11.29	2668​	2671​	2254​
					4322​	4582​	4098​
Sun 05.01 17.55	LAX	CHI	SWC	Tue 07.01 14.50	2144​	1911​	1298​
Wed 08.01 15.05	CHI	SEA	EB	Fri 10.01.01 11.29	2668​	2671​	2254​
					4812​	4582​	3552​
Sat 04.01 16.55	SEA	CHI	EB	Mon 06.01 16.45	2668​	2671​	2254​
Tue 07.01 13.55	CHI	LAX	TE	Fri 10.01 05.35	1654​	1911​	1844​
					4322​	4582​	4098​
Sat 04.01 16.55	SEA	CHI	EB	Mon 06.01 16.45	2668​	2671​	2254​
Tue 07.01 14.50	CHI	LAX	SWC	Thu 08.01 08.00	2144​	1911​	1298​
					4812​	4582​	3552​

 

[Sharky]

Have you thought of flying back to Dublin?

I wouldn't really gain anything, as I'd still need to get a flight from DUB to MAN.

Like yourself, previously, I have often taken my annual leave in January, to get over the exhausting chaos of Xmas. ( No, I wasn't employed as Father Xmas, but I did run a fancy dress hire shop...)

I also wanted to ride routes end to end, rather than stopping off to view places en-route.

I tended to fly to Chicago, as many Amtrak trains start there. How many days do you have to play with?

You may have been lucky with your previous trip, Amtrak timekeeping is very hit and miss. I tend to book an overnight in an economy hotel between each leg, it reduces "on time" stress, and usually allows one to better enjoy the following train ride.

The Zephyr is hands down my favourite Amtrak train, I must have ridden it half a dozen times at least.

I would pay heed to folks warnings about the Empire builder over adverse winter weather, the northern US can have much fiercer winters than the UK, usually.

I appreciate that you may not want to ride the Zephyr again, but taking it from Chicago, or indeed Denver, allows much more lea-way to connect to the northbound Starlight at Sacramento.

You have a clean slate of options, if you rule out the least desirable, then what remains may be the best to suit your circumstances.

Bon Voyage, I am envious!

I have a very peculier working regime where I work 7 days a week for 9 months, then have Dec, Jan & Feb off. If I miss all of the Christamas build up and Christmas BS, Mrs Sharky would emasculate me, then a lot of my Feb time is taken up getting ready for starting work again on 1st March.
My Jan dates are very flexible, my sons less so.
Yes, on my last trip, things worked well for me, but I had booked a room before my trip started and a room at the end. I can apprecaite the good sense of booking a room "in the middle", but in all honesty I have no wish to spend a day in (say) Los Angeles. I wouldn't fancy relying on a 2 hour or less connection (even if guaranteed).
From the trip planning games so far, doing a back to back trip including the EB may be an additional tug to far on my wallet.

I'd love to travel on the CZ again, but with Mrs Sharky in tow.

I'm loving weighing up all of the pros and cons, potential flight options (even positioning flights), much longer trip on TE with prison food and less than stella scenary or much shorter trip on SWC with better food and nicer views.

Bottom line - dead chuffed that my son wants to do a trip like this with me

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

Also note the winter is the rainy season directly on the West Coast. The further north you go, the more it rains. L.A. and San Diego are more or less beach weather. In Seattle people ignore light rains. A rainy spell typically runs a few days.

 

[flitcraft]

Also note the winter is the rainy season directly on the West Coast. The further north you go, the more it rains. L.A. and San Diego are more or less beach weather. In Seattle people ignore light rains. A rainy spell typically runs a few days.

It is true that winter is the rainy season on the West Coast, but where it is rainiest depends on which of two weather oscillations happens that year: In El Nino years, like this winter, most of the storms track southward into California, and the Pacific Northwest is comparatively drier. LA and San Diego had serious flooding this El Nino year, whereas we in Seattle are missing a lot of the mountain snowpack that we depend on for summer water. In La Nina years, the pattern is reversed, with the Northwest getting storms and California going dry. For what it's worth, which honestly isn't much, the prediction is that the El Nino current pattern will fade out shortly and a La Nina pattern is predicted for next winter. It's really too early to rely on any La Nina/El Nino predictions at this point, though.

 

[Cal]

TE with prison food and less than stella scenary

The scenery on the Eagle is actually quite pleasant. I'm biased as I've taken the Chief many times and am very used to it's scenery, but when I've taken the Eagle I have enjoyed the scenery.