French Toast is back on the Empire Builder, and other menu changes.

[TVRM610]

I'm sad to see the Tilapia on most of the menus, I tried it on multiple routes and it was consistently bad. The Mahi Mahi however, was consistently good. Actually Restaurant quality (higher end chain such as Outback) good (again I had it on multiple trains... hence the word consistent ha.). The Salmon I've had on Amtrak is right in the middle.. maybe a little better than say an Applebees.. but not by much. But MUCH better than that Tilapia!

 

[TinCan782]

I'm sad to see the Tilapia on most of the menus, I tried it on multiple routes and it was consistently bad. The Mahi Mahi however, was consistently good. Actually Restaurant quality (higher end chain such as Outback) good (again I had it on multiple trains... hence the word consistent ha.). The Salmon I've had on Amtrak is right in the middle.. maybe a little better than say an Applebees.. but not by much. But MUCH better than that Tilapia!

Hmmmm. On the Coast Starlight last July, the Tilapia was pretty good. YMMV, I guess! I've never had (or seen) Mahi Mahi on the train.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Agree about the tilapia being low in quality and taste!(cost is the reason/its cheap fish!)The Salmon is much better generally on LD Trains!

 

[andersone]

She Who Must Be Obeyed had the Tilapia twice on our recent EB adventure ,,, one good one not so good

 

[fairviewroad]

So getting back on track, Amtrak should sell a "meal package" with the ticket for coach passengers maybe even offer them at time of booking items that they want. This would give each train trip a baseline to determine what to board and how much of it to board.

This would work in a perfect world. But in real life, you'd have people boarding a 2 hour late Builder in Minot and wondering where their (paid for) dinner got to ["Diner's closed, sorry! Call Customer Service for a refund!"). Or someone boards a 3 hour late LSL in Toledo and -- oops -- that breakfast they shelled out $11 for is no longer available since the diner has closed for the rest of the trip. Sure, there'd be ways refunding the money but think of the paperwork hassle. (and I think you'd end up with a lot more irritated coach pax even if the refunds were posted promptly). Even on a delayed flight the planned-for meals are still served to everybody. However, I like the idea of improving the payment process, so I'd support some kind of voucher/pre-pay system...it would just have to be implemented with utmost caution.

Just so we are all clear... Salads and non-alchoholic beverages will no longer be complimentary for coach passengers. The salads will be bigger and cost $3, drinks will cost $2. Two lunch items will also be available during dinner, the burgers and entree salads. The chefs specials will be removed from the lunch and dinner menu. There will be some slight price cuts in the diner and rises in the cafe. I believe most of these food related changes have already taken affect.

None of this sounds unreasonable to me. Your entrees will still come with veggies/starch on the plate. As others have said, very few restaurants throw in a free salad (and certainly not a free beverage) with their meals. I don't think most new passengers will notice anything "wrong". You'll definitely have "regulars" who are taken aback at the changes. My one concern is that the separate items will take longer for the crew to add up (it already takes an eternity to pay the bill if you're traveling in coach).

 

[Devil's Advocate]

i assume the reason french toast is back is because it only needs to be reheated not, oh my, made fresh like a pancake

On the routes I ride those pancakes are not freshly prepared. They taste and feel exactly like frozen pancakes. The pancakes and sausage Amtrak uses today make McDonald's breakfast look and taste like a premium option in comparison.

Maybe Mica got him rattled, but he wildly over-promised when he said Amtrak would eliminate losses on food and beverage service

Maybe Mica didn't rattle Boardman so much as bring him back into the fold. Boardman is from the same clan as Mica and Shuster after all. Making promises he knows will be impossible to fulfill could be nothing more than setting his sword so he can fall upon it when the time is right.

All the scoffers on here that ridiculed those who talked about the slippery slope when the nickel and diming started can now post their apologies!

I'm sure they'll just tell us how they never wanted any salads or rolls or drinks with their meals in the first place and how the table looks better and is easier to use with less food to get in the way.

 

[jebr]

All the scoffers on here that ridiculed those who talked about the slippery slope when the nickel and diming started can now post their apologies!

I'm sure they'll just tell us how they never wanted any salads or rolls or drinks with their meals in the first place and how the table looks better and is easier to use with less food to get in the way.

There's a lot of things I want. Salads and drinks included with my meal? Sure! I want that! But most restaurants don't give that to me already (drinks are very rarely included, and salads sometimes come with some meals and sometimes are available as a side for an additional charge.) I don't know how the numbers will play out and whether this will be revenue-neutral, revenue-negative, or revenue-positive, but my suspicion is that it'll be revenue-positive, at least on paper, as long as Amtrak continues to include the sides and drinks as part of sleeper fares.

I'd be surprised if this led to a large decline in coach passengers eating meals in the diner, though there will be some. But for each drink and salad the diner "sells" to sleeper passengers, that's additional revenue counted towards the diner, even though no cash changes hands. I think that's ultimately what they're trying to do: make the diners "profitable" by increasing the revenue share from the sleeper passengers. Unfortunately, I see this making the diners pricing themselves out of the coach passenger market.

 

[rrdude]

You and me Jimbo, you and me. The downward spiral race-to-the-bottom has begun

 

[TVRM610]

I'm sad to see the Tilapia on most of the menus, I tried it on multiple routes and it was consistently bad. The Mahi Mahi however, was consistently good. Actually Restaurant quality (higher end chain such as Outback) good (again I had it on multiple trains... hence the word consistent ha.). The Salmon I've had on Amtrak is right in the middle.. maybe a little better than say an Applebees.. but not by much. But MUCH better than that Tilapia!

Hmmmm. On the Coast Starlight last July, the Tilapia was pretty good. YMMV, I guess! I've never had (or seen) Mahi Mahi on the train.

Perhaps this is a new Tilapia "recipe" - this was about 2 years ago that I remember having the Tilapia on the Crescent and the City I think.

The Mahi Mahi was on the menus last summer.. (August 2013). I had the Mahi on the Zephyr and the Lake Shore (Coast Starlight and Builder had the Salmon as I recall) and then I also had the Mahi on the Crescent at some point later in the year. It was served with a green chili sauce. The Mahi Mahi and the Lamb Shank are the best food I've had on Amtrak...

 

[seat38a]

One thing that they could do to increase awarness of the dining car and items for sale? ADD MENU's to the seat pockets. Seriously, they treat the menu's in the dining car like its made of gold. Again back to my previous post regarding airlines have discovered that when people don't have to ask an employee about pricing, more will buy add on services. If menu's and pricing were more transparent, more coach passengers would probably eat in the dining car. Take the embarrassed to ask about price out of the equation. Let them decide if it is affordable for them or not instead of making their decision based on assumptions.

 

[tp49]

Just curious for those who had the tilapia how was it seasoned? Biggest issue with tilapia is that it is a fish that needs to be aggressively seasoned in order to be good as it doesn't have much if any flavor of its own.

I don't have much of an issue of the drink now having to be paid for as that's the way it is in most restaurants but considering all the reports of the vegetables Amtrak serves being almost inedible losing the "salad" (for those who eat vegetables) at the captive audience prices coach passengers are charged is not something I favor.

 

[tonys96]

All the scoffers on here that ridiculed those who talked about the slippery slope when the nickel and diming started can now post their apologies!

I'm sure they'll just tell us how they never wanted any salads or rolls or drinks with their meals in the first place and how the table looks better and is easier to use with less food to get in the way.

There's a lot of things I want. Salads and drinks included with my meal? Sure! I want that! But most restaurants don't give that to me already (drinks are very rarely included, and salads sometimes come with some meals and sometimes are available as a side for an additional charge.) I don't know how the numbers will play out and whether this will be revenue-neutral, revenue-negative, or revenue-positive, but my suspicion is that it'll be revenue-positive, at least on paper, as long as Amtrak continues to include the sides and drinks as part of sleeper fares.

I'd be surprised if this led to a large decline in coach passengers eating meals in the diner, though there will be some. But for each drink and salad the diner "sells" to sleeper passengers, that's additional revenue counted towards the diner, even though no cash changes hands. I think that's ultimately what they're trying to do: make the diners "profitable" by increasing the revenue share from the sleeper passengers. Unfortunately, I see this making the diners pricing themselves out of the coach passenger market.

Where I live, most sit down restaurants of the "neighborhood" variety (Cheddars, Applebees, TGIF, Johnny Carinos, etc) most certainly DO offer salad (or soup) as an INCLUDED course of your meal. Included in the cost of the entree. Drinks are charged extra.

 

[tonys96]

You and me Jimbo, you and me. The downward spiral race-to-the-bottom has begun

I recall being told that the cuts would save routes and jobs....right here on these boards. Turns out it is just a race to the Lowest Common Denominator.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

One thing that they could do to increase awarness of the dining car and items for sale? ADD MENU's to the seat pockets. Seriously, they treat the menu's in the dining car like its made of gold. Again back to my previous post regarding airlines have discovered that when people don't have to ask an employee about pricing, more will buy add on services. If menu's and pricing were more transparent, more coach passengers would probably eat in the dining car. Take the embarrassed to ask about price out of the equation. Let them decide if it is affordable for them or not instead of making their decision based on assumptions.

From time to time I have seen a Menu taped up somewhere in the Sightseer Lounge, usually looking pretty tacky. If that is going to be done, at least spend a couple bucks and put it in a decent frame. The seat pocket Menus can be smaller versions of the tri-fold, printed on basic paper to save costs. I have seen Lounge Menus put in the seta backs of some short haul trains such as Wolverine.

Of course a good sign you are a frequent rider is when you can quote every offering on the Menu more accurately than the LSA can

 

[seat38a]

All the scoffers on here that ridiculed those who talked about the slippery slope when the nickel and diming started can now post their apologies!

I'm sure they'll just tell us how they never wanted any salads or rolls or drinks with their meals in the first place and how the table looks better and is easier to use with less food to get in the way.

There's a lot of things I want. Salads and drinks included with my meal? Sure! I want that! But most restaurants don't give that to me already (drinks are very rarely included, and salads sometimes come with some meals and sometimes are available as a side for an additional charge.) I don't know how the numbers will play out and whether this will be revenue-neutral, revenue-negative, or revenue-positive, but my suspicion is that it'll be revenue-positive, at least on paper, as long as Amtrak continues to include the sides and drinks as part of sleeper fares.

I'd be surprised if this led to a large decline in coach passengers eating meals in the diner, though there will be some. But for each drink and salad the diner "sells" to sleeper passengers, that's additional revenue counted towards the diner, even though no cash changes hands. I think that's ultimately what they're trying to do: make the diners "profitable" by increasing the revenue share from the sleeper passengers. Unfortunately, I see this making the diners pricing themselves out of the coach passenger market.

Where I live, most sit down restaurants of the "neighborhood" variety (Cheddars, Applebees, TGIF, Johnny Carinos, etc) most certainly DO offer salad (or soup) as an INCLUDED course of your meal. Included in the cost of the entree. Drinks are charged extra.

I just checked three of the restaurants that you listed and all of them charge for salad or soup. It says it right on the menu.

 

[tonys96]

All the scoffers on here that ridiculed those who talked about the slippery slope when the nickel and diming started can now post their apologies!

I'm sure they'll just tell us how they never wanted any salads or rolls or drinks with their meals in the first place and how the table looks better and is easier to use with less food to get in the way.

There's a lot of things I want. Salads and drinks included with my meal? Sure! I want that! But most restaurants don't give that to me already (drinks are very rarely included, and salads sometimes come with some meals and sometimes are available as a side for an additional charge.) I don't know how the numbers will play out and whether this will be revenue-neutral, revenue-negative, or revenue-positive, but my suspicion is that it'll be revenue-positive, at least on paper, as long as Amtrak continues to include the sides and drinks as part of sleeper fares.

I'd be surprised if this led to a large decline in coach passengers eating meals in the diner, though there will be some. But for each drink and salad the diner "sells" to sleeper passengers, that's additional revenue counted towards the diner, even though no cash changes hands. I think that's ultimately what they're trying to do: make the diners "profitable" by increasing the revenue share from the sleeper passengers. Unfortunately, I see this making the diners pricing themselves out of the coach passenger market.

Where I live, most sit down restaurants of the "neighborhood" variety (Cheddars, Applebees, TGIF, Johnny Carinos, etc) most certainly DO offer salad (or soup) as an INCLUDED course of your meal. Included in the cost of the entree. Drinks are charged extra.

I just checked three of the restaurants that you listed and all of them charge for salad or soup. It says it right on the menu.

Did you really go out to three of the places I listed today? In Texas? Which three? Did you eat at all of them? Why did you leave one out? Which city in Texas did you go to? Are you full yet?

Or did you just look at a generic online menu, and extrapolate what you wanted the result to be? Perhaps things are different in SoCal than they are in North Central Texas? (Which would be why I said "Where I live" instead of making a blanket statement) Just as a friendly offer, drop on by my house and I'll spring for your dinner at these places. Then I'll ask you to retract your statement, which is a thinly veiled comment calling me a liar.

Give us the date you will be by. We will be gladly waiting for your company for dinner!

 

[tonys96]

All the scoffers on here that ridiculed those who talked about the slippery slope when the nickel and diming started can now post their apologies!

I'm sure they'll just tell us how they never wanted any salads or rolls or drinks with their meals in the first place and how the table looks better and is easier to use with less food to get in the way.

There's a lot of things I want. Salads and drinks included with my meal? Sure! I want that! But most restaurants don't give that to me already (drinks are very rarely included, and salads sometimes come with some meals and sometimes are available as a side for an additional charge.) I don't know how the numbers will play out and whether this will be revenue-neutral, revenue-negative, or revenue-positive, but my suspicion is that it'll be revenue-positive, at least on paper, as long as Amtrak continues to include the sides and drinks as part of sleeper fares.

I'd be surprised if this led to a large decline in coach passengers eating meals in the diner, though there will be some. But for each drink and salad the diner "sells" to sleeper passengers, that's additional revenue counted towards the diner, even though no cash changes hands. I think that's ultimately what they're trying to do: make the diners "profitable" by increasing the revenue share from the sleeper passengers. Unfortunately, I see this making the diners pricing themselves out of the coach passenger market.

Where I live, most sit down restaurants of the "neighborhood" variety (Cheddars, Applebees, TGIF, Johnny Carinos, etc) most certainly DO offer salad (or soup) as an INCLUDED course of your meal. Included in the cost of the entree. Drinks are charged extra.

See post above.

 

[me_little_me]

She Who Must Be Obeyed had the Tilapia twice on our recent EB adventure ,,, one good one not so good

You have the same wife I do? Wow!

Where I live, most sit down restaurants of the "neighborhood" variety (Cheddars, Applebees, TGIF, Johnny Carinos, etc) most certainly DO offer salad (or soup) as an INCLUDED course of your meal. Included in the cost of the entree. Drinks are charged extra.

I just checked three of the restaurants that you listed and all of them charge for salad or soup. It says it right on the menu.

Did you really go out to three of the places I listed today? In Texas? Which three? Did you eat at all of them? Why did you leave one out? Which city in Texas did you go to? Are you full yet?

Or did you just look at a generic online menu, and extrapolate what you wanted the result to be? Perhaps things are different in SoCal than they are in North Central Texas? (Which would be why I said "Where I live" instead of making a blanket statement) Just as a friendly offer, drop on by my house and I'll spring for your dinner at these places. Then I'll ask you to retract your statement, which is a thinly veiled comment calling me a liar.

Give us the date you will be by. We will be gladly waiting for your company for dinner!

Well one or the other is going to have a new menu item - freshly baked Crow!

 

[jebr]

All the scoffers on here that ridiculed those who talked about the slippery slope when the nickel and diming started can now post their apologies!

I'm sure they'll just tell us how they never wanted any salads or rolls or drinks with their meals in the first place and how the table looks better and is easier to use with less food to get in the way.

There's a lot of things I want. Salads and drinks included with my meal? Sure! I want that! But most restaurants don't give that to me already (drinks are very rarely included, and salads sometimes come with some meals and sometimes are available as a side for an additional charge.) I don't know how the numbers will play out and whether this will be revenue-neutral, revenue-negative, or revenue-positive, but my suspicion is that it'll be revenue-positive, at least on paper, as long as Amtrak continues to include the sides and drinks as part of sleeper fares.

I'd be surprised if this led to a large decline in coach passengers eating meals in the diner, though there will be some. But for each drink and salad the diner "sells" to sleeper passengers, that's additional revenue counted towards the diner, even though no cash changes hands. I think that's ultimately what they're trying to do: make the diners "profitable" by increasing the revenue share from the sleeper passengers. Unfortunately, I see this making the diners pricing themselves out of the coach passenger market.

Where I live, most sit down restaurants of the "neighborhood" variety (Cheddars, Applebees, TGIF, Johnny Carinos, etc) most certainly DO offer salad (or soup) as an INCLUDED course of your meal. Included in the cost of the entree. Drinks are charged extra.

That's a rather select list of restaurants, though. I've never ate at Cheddars or Johnny Carinos, and there's none of those around here. I'm not sure about TGIF, and I don't remember getting a salad last time I was at Applebee's.

That being said, Cheddars' website menu for Austin, TX explicitly states salad is additional and is not a side:





My point still stands. Some restaurants do offer it (I believe Olive Garden is one of them) but it's not a rule by any means, and Amtrak is not breaking ground by separating the salad out.

 

[tonys96]

All the scoffers on here that ridiculed those who talked about the slippery slope when the nickel and diming started can now post their apologies!

I'm sure they'll just tell us how they never wanted any salads or rolls or drinks with their meals in the first place and how the table looks better and is easier to use with less food to get in the way.

There's a lot of things I want. Salads and drinks included with my meal? Sure! I want that! But most restaurants don't give that to me already (drinks are very rarely included, and salads sometimes come with some meals and sometimes are available as a side for an additional charge.) I don't know how the numbers will play out and whether this will be revenue-neutral, revenue-negative, or revenue-positive, but my suspicion is that it'll be revenue-positive, at least on paper, as long as Amtrak continues to include the sides and drinks as part of sleeper fares.

I'd be surprised if this led to a large decline in coach passengers eating meals in the diner, though there will be some. But for each drink and salad the diner "sells" to sleeper passengers, that's additional revenue counted towards the diner, even though no cash changes hands. I think that's ultimately what they're trying to do: make the diners "profitable" by increasing the revenue share from the sleeper passengers. Unfortunately, I see this making the diners pricing themselves out of the coach passenger market.

Where I live, most sit down restaurants of the "neighborhood" variety (Cheddars, Applebees, TGIF, Johnny Carinos, etc) most certainly DO offer salad (or soup) as an INCLUDED course of your meal. Included in the cost of the entree. Drinks are charged extra.

That's a rather select list of restaurants, though. I've never ate at Cheddars or Johnny Carinos, and there's none of those around here. I'm not sure about TGIF, and I don't remember getting a salad last time I was at Applebee's.

That being said, Cheddars' website menu for Austin, TX explicitly states salad is additional and is not a side:

cheddars menu.PNG

cheddars sides.PNG

My point still stands. Some restaurants do offer it (I believe Olive Garden is one of them) but it's not a rule by any means, and Amtrak is not breaking ground by separating the salad out.

RE:

My point still stands. Some restaurants do offer it (I believe Olive Garden is one of them) but it's not a rule by any means, and Amtrak is not breaking ground by separating the salad out.

I agree!

We eat at Cheddars here often. (The queso dip with ground beef in it is superb) The g/f always gets salad as one of the sides. So it is included in the meal. Same can be said for Applebees or TGIF entrees. You can do the same thing if you so choose, all you have to do is request it. At Carinos you get soup OR salad with every entree.(Potato soup is great) Even low cost steak places (Saltgrass, etc.) gives you a choice between salad or soup as part of the meal.

But, there are likely as many, if not more, that do not offer salad. Many do not offer it at all.

As for Amtrak. I would be ecstatic to get to choose the salad over the veg medley on any of the meals.

But.......to the subject of the thread.....

1. I am glad to see the RR French Toast on the menu. I do not like the pancakes, and really like the French Toast.

2. As for the "A-la-carte" pricing......without lowering the entree cost......this is just another case of nickel and diming the customers. Coach pax may choose to eat in the diner, but at these prices it will likely be prohibitively expensive for many, if not most. I agree with posting the menu somewhere, so coach pax can get a look at it before going to diner and getting "sticker shock".

 

[Chey]

The ones I've been to lately (Longhorn and Outback, to name two) still offer salad as one of the sides included in the entrees in both places. And a small LOAF of bread in both.

 

[amamba]

I can't think of a single restaurant by me (except Olive Garden) that includes salad with a dinner entree.

I just spent the weekend in scranton (aside - all rail fans should visit the steam town national historic site!!) and two of the restaurants I visited in town included a salad with a dinner entree. So it does seem to be a regional thing.

 

[TinCan782]

Just curious for those who had the tilapia how was it seasoned? Biggest issue with tilapia is that it is a fish that needs to be aggressively seasoned in order to be good as it doesn't have much if any flavor of its own.

I don't have much of an issue of the drink now having to be paid for as that's the way it is in most restaurants but considering all the reports of the vegetables Amtrak serves being almost inedible losing the "salad" (for those who eat vegetables) at the captive audience prices coach passengers are charged is not something I favor.

Cant recall how it was seasoned but, it was in some kind of "sauce". Seasoned but, not overly so. Most importantly, for me, it did not taste fishy and was not dry.

 

[Guest]

A coach passenger goes into the diner for breakfast. $7.50 for scrambled eggs, hash browns and a croissant. $2 extra for coffee..$2 extra for juice. What used to cost $7.50 is now $11.50.

I just had breakfast at Denny's this morning. French toast was $7.99 and coffee was $2.09. Plus tax and tip. I didn't add juice, but I am sure such would be extra.

I don't see how Amtrak's prices are all that out-of-line.

 

[Guest]

Where I live, most sit down restaurants of the "neighborhood" variety (Cheddars, Applebees, TGIF, Johnny Carinos, etc) most certainly DO offer salad (or soup) as an INCLUDED course of your meal. Included in the cost of the entree. Drinks are charged extra.

I just checked three of the restaurants that you listed and all of them charge for salad or soup. It says it right on the menu.

I have to agree. We regularly eat at Applebees, TGIF, Outback, and so on, and except for possibility a couple of their highest price dinners (lobster?), the "pre meal" salad is an extra $2.50 or $3.00. Most of their dinners are simply "meat" and a "starch".