French Toast is back on the Empire Builder, and other menu changes.

[City of Miami]

"The problem was identified correctly in the Performance Improvement Plans: lack of volume. They aren't turning over enough tables and they aren't open enough hours."

But how is this possible?? I have read many times here on AU how the dining car staff works 18 hours a day, at least. No breaks, a few hours of sleep - and back on the job!

"The person in charge of this is a fool."

As we all know the real expense is personnel. But the union probably will not allow them to work the existing personnel more - I really have no idea, just guessing. So the 'fool' is playing in a restricted field of what he can do.

 

[David C]

One of these days..maybe 30 years from now...we will be able to divorce the operation of the train from the service provided on the train. There are things that the government can do better than anyone else and we should support those efforts. However, outside of basic transportation (i.e. coach) and the locos to pull the train, I'm not sure that a government controlled entity is best suited for that purpose.

Until an outside contractor is hired to provide service and is properly incentivized to deliver high quality experience, this is the road we are going to travel down.

I certainly think that the cafe/lounge car SHOULD do a much better job in the offering to coach passengers so they are not held captive to high prices in the dining car (which is not new...high prices in the dining car have been around since the inception of dining car service I believe). Just 5 or 6 basic choices that change monthly or even by train in the cafe should suffice. Airlines are able to do a lot of heating and prep in a very small galley space and now feature some attractive meals in air for coach passengers who choose to by on board.

However, the minute you even begin to talk about privatizing certain onboard services with a revenue share plan with Amtrak, it causes many people on this board to go nuclear. The answer is always more money more money more money. I certainly agree the system needs more money, but it will never get it without more support more support more support. Get the people on the trains who pay the bills....and provide them with the service they want more of or see as an attractive alternative to air. They'll be onboard.

Once they are onboard, the money will come.

So, until then, we are left with these disheartening changes to railroad travel that are a national embarassment caused as much by lack of willingness to compromise on both sides of the political spectrum.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Salads are usually on the table already when I get there. I wonder how that will work now? Will coach pax watch while sleeper pax eat their salads?

 

[benale]

A coach passenger goes into the diner for breakfast. $7.50 for scrambled eggs, hash browns and a croissant. $2 extra for coffee..$2 extra for juice. What used to cost $7.50 is now $11.50.

Is Amtrak trying to discourage coach passengers from eating in the diner? I would always tell people who are taking their first Amtrak trip to experience at least one meal in the diner. With the already high prices even more outrageous I'll probably stop. You are paying $25 for a steak and you have to pay $3 more for their basic blah salad? Wonder how much longer it will be before they charge for a glass of water? Not bottled water, tap water.

Shameful.

 

[neroden]

"The problem was identified correctly in the Performance Improvement Plans: lack of volume. They aren't turning over enough tables and they aren't open enough hours."

But how is this possible?? I have read many times here on AU how the dining car staff works 18 hours a day, at least. No breaks, a few hours of sleep - and back on the job!

(1) Paperwork paperwork paperwork! Inventory counts before, inventory counts after, inventory counts in the middle, cash handling and reconciliation, etc. etc...
This is why "point of sale" in the diner would make a big difference.

(2) Not enough tables in the Heritage cars. They could handle more tables at once if said tables existed... the Superliners may be at the limit of the number of tables the staff can handle (or beyond), but the Heritage cars certainly aren't.

(3) There's also stocking, which is apparently inefficient (the Viewliners will have pre-stocked carts which roll on, rather than having to load each thing into cabinets individually)

Noticed also (not a biggie for me) that the lunch items are no longer available for dinner.

Oh good god. This is actually a deal-breaker, because the burger was literally the only thing on the menu which my fiancee could eat for dinner (the only dairy-free item) on our last trip. They'd damn well better offer it to her -- reasonable accomodations to the disabled.

 

[neroden]

Anyway, cutting the food losses in half, with the help of the Viewliner II

diners, would have been doable. Now Amtrak is under pressure to do

too much too fast. So mistakes will be made.

Result will be increased losses on food service as dining revenues dry up, and therefore cover even less of the labor cost overhead.

Very, very, very stupid.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

"The problem was identified correctly in the Performance Improvement Plans: lack of volume. They aren't turning over enough tables and they aren't open enough hours."

But how is this possible?? I have read many times here on AU how the dining car staff works 18 hours a day, at least. No breaks, a few hours of sleep - and back on the job!

(1) Paperwork paperwork paperwork! Inventory counts before, inventory counts after, inventory counts in the middle, cash handling and reconciliation, etc. etc...
This is why "point of sale" in the diner would make a big difference.

(2) Not enough tables in the Heritage cars. They could handle more tables at once if said tables existed... the Superliners may be at the limit of the number of tables the staff can handle (or beyond), but the Heritage cars certainly aren't.

(3) There's also stocking, which is apparently inefficient (the Viewliners will have pre-stocked carts which roll on, rather than having to load each thing into cabinets individually)

Noticed also (not a biggie for me) that the lunch items are no longer available for dinner.

Oh good god. This is actually a deal-breaker, because the burger was literally the only thing on the menu which my fiancee could eat for dinner (the only dairy-free item) on our last trip. They'd damn well better offer it to her -- reasonable accomodations to the disabled.

I looked at the CZ's new menu. To me it looked like you could order lunch items for dinner but not vice-versa.

 

[zepherdude]

One of these days..maybe 30 years from now...we will be able to divorce the operation of the train from the service provided on the train. There are things that the government can do better than anyone else and we should support those efforts. However, outside of basic transportation (i.e. coach) and the locos to pull the train, I'm not sure that a government controlled entity is best suited for that purpose.

Until an outside contractor is hired to provide service and is properly incentivized to deliver high quality experience, this is the road we are going to travel down.

I certainly think that the cafe/lounge car SHOULD do a much better job in the offering to coach passengers so they are not held captive to high prices in the dining car (which is not new...high prices in the dining car have been around since the inception of dining car service I believe). Just 5 or 6 basic choices that change monthly or even by train in the cafe should suffice. Airlines are able to do a lot of heating and prep in a very small galley space and now feature some attractive meals in air for coach passengers who choose to by on board.

However, the minute you even begin to talk about privatizing certain onboard services with a revenue share plan with Amtrak, it causes many people on this board to go nuclear. The answer is always more money more money more money. I certainly agree the system needs more money, but it will never get it without more support more support more support. Get the people on the trains who pay the bills....and provide them with the service they want more of or see as an attractive alternative to air. They'll be onboard.

Once they are onboard, the money will come.

So, until then, we are left with these disheartening changes to railroad travel that are a national embarassment caused as much by lack of willingness to compromise on both sides of the political spectrum.

I totally agree with you. Amtrak has no business in the food business. They are in transportation and should stay in transportation and outsource the cars to Aramark or professional caterer that specializes in transportation of food and equipment. It is becoming more clear that Amtrak has learned little about food service. However, they would have to fight with union, fight with congress and fight with employees that prolly make tons of tips in the dining car. All they seem to know is how to raise prices and cut the menu further.

 

[Bob Dylan]

All the scoffers on here that ridiculed those who talked about the slippery slope when the nickel and diming started can now post their apologies!

Don't be shocked when the next round table meetimg of the Alice in Wonderland Society, aka Boardman's Bean Counters, come up with more moronic ideas to lose even more money!!!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

It sounds like Amtrak is trying to do the EXACT same thing the Espee did back in the 60s when it wanted to kill passenger ridership so they could hopefully scupper the trains.

 

[neroden]

I looked at the CZ's new menu. To me it looked like you could order lunch items for dinner but not vice-versa.

Oh, that's OK then.

 

[neroden]

I totally agree with you. Amtrak has no business in the food business. They are in transportation and should stay in transportation and outsource the cars to Aramark

The food is *already* from Aramark.
The waiters and cooks seem to do a perfectly good job.

What needs to be fixed is the "back end" procedure: the inventorying, the paperwork, the paper bills, etc. Amtrak has proven capable of upgrading one very similar thing: the ticketing for the trains. They should be capable of upgrading the billing for the food as well.

 

[TinCan782]

"The problem was identified correctly in the Performance Improvement Plans: lack of volume. They aren't turning over enough tables and they aren't open enough hours."

But how is this possible?? I have read many times here on AU how the dining car staff works 18 hours a day, at least. No breaks, a few hours of sleep - and back on the job!

(1) Paperwork paperwork paperwork! Inventory counts before, inventory counts after, inventory counts in the middle, cash handling and reconciliation, etc. etc...
This is why "point of sale" in the diner would make a big difference.

(2) Not enough tables in the Heritage cars. They could handle more tables at once if said tables existed... the Superliners may be at the limit of the number of tables the staff can handle (or beyond), but the Heritage cars certainly aren't.

(3) There's also stocking, which is apparently inefficient (the Viewliners will have pre-stocked carts which roll on, rather than having to load each thing into cabinets individually)

Noticed also (not a biggie for me) that the lunch items are no longer available for dinner.

Oh good god. This is actually a deal-breaker, because the burger was literally the only thing on the menu which my fiancee could eat for dinner (the only dairy-free item) on our last trip. They'd damn well better offer it to her -- reasonable accomodations to the disabled.

I looked at the CZ's new menu. To me it looked like you could order lunch items for dinner but not vice-versa.

That was the old menu...the currently posted menu for the CZ does not indicate lunch items being available for dinner. The old menus said LUNCH/DINNER and DINNER(ONLY), the new menus say LUNCH and DINNER(ONLY). I interpret that to mean lunch is not available for dinner as it used to be. Did they mean to say "LUNCH/DINNER"?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Since it says Dinner Only for the dinner menu, I take it that lunch can be for either. IIRC the menu on the LSL did not say the lunch was for either & I was able to get the burger for dinner.

 

[TinCan782]

I think the previous wording was more clear than the current.

 

[SteveSFL]

The Caesar salad and the burgers (angus and veggie) clearly state "Available as a dinner option" on the 10/14 menus, which is the same as it was when I travelled in September.

I *do* prefer the French toast to the pancakes so I was pleased to see it back on the menus. I just hope it's still there in January. I can eat french toast four days in a row, but the pancakes are a bit much that often.

So does anyone know for sure if the extras are still included for sleeping car pax? I can do without the juice, but I do like the bacon. And speaking of breakfast meats, does anyone like the sausage? In sept, on the first morning I got the chicken sausage and my dad got the pork. Both were so bland it could have been cardboard. We switched to bacon for the rest of the 5-day trip and laughed a little bit on the inside each time we saw another passenger about spit out the sausage and remark on its lack of taste.

 

[TinCan782]

The Caesar salad and the burgers (angus and veggie) clearly state "Available as a dinner option" on the 10/14 menus, which is the same as it was when I travelled in September.

I *do* prefer the French toast to the pancakes so I was pleased to see it back on the menus. I just hope it's still there in January. I can eat french toast four days in a row, but the pancakes are a bit much that often.

So does anyone know for sure if the extras are still included for sleeping car pax? I can do without the juice, but I do like the bacon. And speaking of breakfast meats, does anyone like the sausage? In sept, on the first morning I got the chicken sausage and my dad got the pork. Both were so bland it could have been cardboard. We switched to bacon for the rest of the 5-day trip and laughed a little bit on the inside each time we saw another passenger about spit out the sausage and remark on its lack of taste.

Ahhh, OK. I didn't read the "fine print", just the obvious headline that changed. I see, probably because the Chef's Marketplace Special is not available for dinner now. How many else besides me will miss the "Available as a dinner option"?

I hope the options (breakfast meat) are still available for sleeper passengers.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

. And speaking of breakfast meats, does anyone like the sausage? In sept, on the first morning I got the chicken sausage and my dad got the pork. Both were so bland it could have been cardboard. We switched to bacon for the rest of the 5-day trip and laughed a little bit on the inside each time we saw another passenger about spit out the sausage and remark on its lack of taste.

I do order the Chicken Sausage but need to toss a few splashes of Tabasco and several shakes of Pepper onto them to kick up the flavor.

 

[TraneMan]

From what I read, nothing was changed for the sleeper passengers.

 

[seat38a]

Salads are usually on the table already when I get there. I wonder how that will work now? Will coach pax watch while sleeper pax eat their salads?

It already happens during lunch when the sleeper passengers get a salad and roll while coach does not. So I don't see anything changing here. Salad being on the table, is not a global policy so I'm guessing the serving staff that have been doing this are going to have to change.

 

[seat38a]

One thing that Amtrak can do, (If budget and congress gives them the money) they can pre sell meals online to coach passengers when they are booking. The airlines discovered, that when they offer items to customers via the self serve kiosk or online, people buy more than if they were interacting with an employee. It comes down to, many people are too embarrassed to ask and then decline if price is too high or even scared to even ask say an employee that is having a crummy day. When people have the option to check the price and then decline without interacting with someone, the airlines have discovered more people will pay to upgrade to first class, or buy a day pass to the lounge etc. Even offering pre booking meals online with choices encourage more sales then rolling the cart down the aisle.

So getting back on track, Amtrak should sell a "meal package" with the ticket for coach passengers maybe even offer them at time of booking items that they want. This would give each train trip a baseline to determine what to board and how much of it to board. So they can do the math something like, board enough for sleeper passengers + prepaid coach, then so much on top for miscellaneous passengers.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

i assume the reason french toast is back is because it only needs to be reheated not, oh my, made fresh like a pancake

McDonald's pancake are all made in a plant located in Louisville KY. I was told it the only plant in the US that makes hot cakes and biscuits.

 

[TheTuck]

Just so we are all clear... Salads and non-alchoholic beverages will no longer be complimentary for coach passengers. The salads will be bigger and cost $3, drinks will cost $2. Two lunch items will also be available during dinner, the burgers and entree salads. The chefs specials will be removed from the lunch and dinner menu. There will be some slight price cuts in the diner and rises in the cafe. I believe most of these food related changes have already taken affect.

Now my two cents.. I am fine with charging for the extras and getting some additional revenue. Also, waste levels will decrease as only those who really want a salad will get one. Probably wont make a huge dent but we'll see. Keep in mind this menu change is for the Fall and Winter, typically much slower travel seasons. I hope the Chef's specials, which were regional cuisines specific to each route, will return with the Spring/Summer menu. Overall, these changes are small potatoes and won't have a significant impact on the Food and Beverage bottom line. Amtrak and Aramark are working to implement a computer accounting system for the long distance trains. It has taken much longer than expected but once a Point of Sale system is implemented in the Dining Cars, the potential for financial improvement is huge!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Let's get some pics posted on here and see what these changes look like on the Table.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

With 11 of us on the CZ right now, you just may get pics.