First timer, not impressed with Amtrak

[andersone]

Mother used to say you try things so you know if you like them or not. Sodium tried, he didn't like.

I have been avid (not foamer) LD train rider for more than forty years. I am in the Clint Eastwood club (Good, Bad & Ugly) with a variety of experiences with equipment and staff. Show me your surprised look - it is no different than any other service, extremely dependent on the people. Overall I prefer it to any other form of transportation. I am sorry you didn't enjoy it, but I am sure there are things you find pleasing that I find abhorrent. So be it. enjoy the TSA

 

[Cina]

"Victim" is a little heavy-handed, but I do agree Sodium seems like a fairly reasonable dude. Higher standards than I have certainly, but that's not a crime. It seems on this board people like to jump on naysayers unless they're regular posters, kind of like the whole "Nobody picks on my little sister...except me" scenario. That being said, several people have replied rationally, more than I thought!

 

[Eric308]

I'm with Sodium here. Some Amtrak staff ARE sub-standard. Some equipment IS in poor condition. Amtrak advertising (and some railfans) DO oversell the product. I still take Amtrak anyway because I like trains but I take far more excursion trips than Amtrak trips (although more miles on Amtrak). I also take more road trips for more miles than any other transportation, and agree with Sodium that I can see more that way, especially by staying off the freeway and then getting out of the car for sight-seeing.

Sodium hasn't said anything to make me think I wouldn't want to travel with him. He is aware enough that he knew train travel cross country still exists and adventurous enough that he tried it. The places he mentioned in his car trip are places I go every few years so we probably like the same things, except Colorado National Monument so I just looked that up and bookmarked it (Thanks, Sodium). He's a good story teller, look how many of you responded emotionally to his post. His writing is organized and clear, good communication may be the most important attribute when you are stuck in close quarters with someone. He listens, too, judging from his response. And the guy even has a sense of humor, calling himself a "bellyacher." I suspect he'd be a fine travel companion.

Sounds like a match made in heaven. I personally think EVERY form of travel is fantastic. I've toured every state on a motorcycle, drove a semi cross country, hitchhiked in every state, did countless family "road trips" as a kid, and offered my daughter countless family road trips while she was growing up. Trains just offer that level of diversity not found elsewhere. I love seeing the backyards of America, and no other form of transportation I know of offers this. I love my little roomettes and it sure beats sleeping under a freeway overpass and cleaning up in an Esso station.

 

[JayPea]

I don't see the problem here. Sodium tried the train and found it wanting. So be it. My first long distance train trip was also on the CZ. The server in the dining car was a total jackass, and that is probably being insulting to all the world's self-respecting jackasses. The scenery was great and would gave been greater had I looked out the window on the other side. I had no idea the roomettes were so small and that Amtrak was always shunted to sidings in favor of freights. In short I wasn't impresses either. But I then lowered expectations and have enjoyed train travel ever since. As for the scenery I love the scenery the CZ has to offer. But I can truly say I have seen better by road too. But then I have driven over the North Cascades Highway, Going-to-the-Sun Highway as well as other roads in Glacier Park, the Beartooth Highway in Montana and Wyoming, which Charles Kuralt once said was the most scenic highway in America,and the Spirit Lake Highway in southwestern Washington that leads to Mt. St. Helens. But the scenery on the CZ is first rate regardless, and I don't have to do the driving!

The bathrooms are to me a bit crowded but I have no problem using them myself. And the service I have encountered is maddeningly inconsistent. Not enough to stop riding trains though.

Sodium is entirely entitled to not want to ride a train again. At least he is not like some other posters, one of who said they didn't understand why ANYONE would EVER ride trains and didn't understand why ANYONE liked to do so. Or another one who called anyone who rides trains "freakishly uneducated".

We are all entitled to our own likes and dislikes and entitled to our own opinions. As I said earlier, Sodium found the train wanting and won't ride again. His prerogative, and shouldn't be subject to criticism. Finally, as for being a victim, well, that sounds a bit overboard, but if Sodium feels like a victim then he was. It's not up to us to decide for him if he was or not.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Sodium....

I do reccomend a trip on both the Cumbres and Toltec and the Durango and Silverton. Durango is slightly more commercial (more touristy) but both offer stunning scenery, use historical equipment, and only operate steam.

I'm still baffled that you were disappointed with the scenery on the zephyr. But to each his own. I personally travelled on the zephyr 4 times last year and two of those times I went out of my way to travel that amazing route. You are correct you don't see the arches park from the train, but you see the Ruby Canyon, which you can't see from any road! Likewise the path the zephyr takes through the Rockies is nowhere near any roads. Over the times I have taken the zephyr I have gotten very lucky with wildlife and saw a big horn sheep, small herds of elk, a red fox, and dozens of Eagles.

None of us can agree or disagree with you about your crew. Comparing them to greyhound does nothing for me. Greyhound is inconsistent just like Amtrak. I've had great greyhound experiences and I've had horrible ones. The horrible ones make Amtrak look like a first class operation. Ha.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent thread, one of the best on AU and we didn't even talk about toliet paper!

I think Skyline,Alice and JayPea's posts really nail it and that the old saying that "..everyone to their own tastes said the Old Maid as she kissed the cow.." is really appropriate here!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I love train travel, but to enjoy Amtrak, I think you have to have "realistic" (aka not too high) expectations.

Think of it as an adventure. My wife and I enjoyed staying at campgrounds while friends payed lots of money for fancy hotels. I think we had more fun.

I think the root of the problem comes down to Amtrak sleeper services charging "fancy hotel" level prices for "campground" level customer service. If you were paying double or even triple the cost of first class airfare why wouldn't you expect it to be twice as nice? All this focus on the rather vague change from "first class" to "sleeper class" seems to be intentionally missing the point. Does anyone think new customers riding Amtrak today have any clue (or reason to know) that ten years ago Amtrak started running away from the idea of offering first class service?

 

[andersone]

I just remember showering on the zeph with a friend once, it was quite comfortable,, but I think that depends on the friend

 

[neroden]

I think the root of the problem comes down to Amtrak sleeper services charging "fancy hotel" level prices for "campground" level customer service. If you were paying double or even triple the cost of first class airfare why wouldn't you expect it to be twice as nice?

Ah, but Amtrak is still typically cheaper than first class air tickets, *and* thanks to the TSA, first class air travel is deeply unpleasant now!
For me and most people taking the train, the alternative to Amtrak is not flying, it's driving. This has its own set of problems, but when I can get a relaxing country drive on uncrowded back roads, and I have several drivers to take turns, I have to say it's a very nice way to travel. But usually I have just one or two people to drive, and have to go on the damn interstates full of maniac tailgaters, however, which makes me not like it.

I will say that a three-day trip is wearying, period. But an upstate NY-Chicago overnight on the LSL is a lot nicer for me than driving for one and a half days, including through some sections of permanent fog, and staying overnight in a random moutel outside Cleveland, which is why I prefer Amtrak for a single-overnight. I like tucking into bed in the train in Syracuse, waking up in Indiana and eating breakfast, and then arriving in Chicago rested in the morning.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Chicago to Emeryville, lowest price available in Sleeper in the month of March, 2016 = $474 for one person in Roomette.

Chicago to San Francisco, lowest first class airline ticket in the month of March, 2016 = $382 for one person, First Class on United.

If you were going to have more than one carry-on piece of luggage, the cost would be about the same after luggage fees.

 

[Train Rider]

Ripping on people because they don't like something as much as they apparently should is a weakness of this board; however, many people here did craft their responses well.

 

[neroden]

Chicago to Emeryville, lowest price available in Sleeper in the month of March, 2016 = $474 for one person in Roomette.

Chicago to San Francisco, lowest first class airline ticket in the month of March, 2016 = $382 for one person, First Class on United.

I'm usually looking at "hub to small regional airport" prices rather than "hub to hub" prices, and airline first class can be much much more pricey than that.

For a random pair of dates from Syracuse to Chicago, I'm getting $880 round-trip for first class airfare. On other dates it's as low as $740...

Amtrak is a lot cheaper on the same dates, coming in at $271 each way, or $542 total, for a sleeper.

Flights are cheapest for hub-to-hub trips. If you're heading for a regional location, the airline prices are much higher and Amtrak is much more price-competitive.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Flights are cheapest for hub-to-hub trips. If you're heading for a regional location, the airline prices are much higher and Amtrak is much more price-competitive.

Agreed! My example showed that hub-to-hub the prices are very comparable. It's also tricky because my low end first class flight was only available for an early morning (6 AM) flight on Tuesday or Wednesdays. All other flights were in the $400 range closer to the low end amtrak fee.

 

[the_traveler]

Chicago to Emeryville, lowest price available in Sleeper in the month of March, 2016 = $474 for one person in Roomette.

Chicago to San Francisco, lowest first class airline ticket in the month of March, 2016 = $382 for one person, First Class on United.

If you were going to have more than one carry-on piece of luggage, the cost would be about the same after luggage fees.

But I doubt very much that you could find a reputable hotel for $75-100 for the extra 2 nights! (Maybe $100 for 1 night, but not $100 total plus meals for 2 nights!)

 

[CCC1007]

Chicago to Emeryville, lowest price available in Sleeper in the month of March, 2016 = $474 for one person in Roomette.

Chicago to San Francisco, lowest first class airline ticket in the month of March, 2016 = $382 for one person, First Class on United.

If you were going to have more than one carry-on piece of luggage, the cost would be about the same after luggage fees.

But I doubt very much that you could find a reputable hotel for $75-100 for the extra 2 nights! (Maybe $100 for 1 night, but not $100 total plus meals for 2 nights!)

then why not compare flights two days AFTER the train leaves Chicago so that a person would have the same amount of time in the Bay Area, as a control. There is no doubt that being in your own bed is much cheaper.

 

[MARC Rider]

I think the root of the problem comes down to Amtrak sleeper services charging "fancy hotel" level prices for "campground" level customer service. If you were paying double or even triple the cost of first class airfare why wouldn't you expect it to be twice as nice? All this focus on the rather vague change from "first class" to "sleeper class" seems to be intentionally missing the point. Does anyone think new customers riding Amtrak today have any clue (or reason to know) that ten years ago Amtrak started running away from the idea of offering first class service?

(The emphasis in the quote is mine.)

I just searched some fares. United Airlines First Class from BWI to SFO. Amtrak Sleeper from BWI to EMY (OK, the 20 minute trip from BWI to WAS is coach). July 11 to Aug 9, 2016

United Airlines First Class unrestricted is $1,140 - $1,180

Amtrak sleeper is $800 - $1,100

I compare sleeper with unrestricted first class because the cheaper first class United offers is a non-refundable ticket, and and Amtrak sleeper the rail fare is refundable (less a 10% fee if you want cash back) and the sleeper fare is fully refundable to a voucher for future travel.

Coach fares are comparable. By train, course you're spending 4 days, whereas the flight is only 6 hours or so.

What you paying for when you buy the sleeper is privacy and a flat bed for sleeping.

Whether the beef about the value proposition of an Amtrak sleeper is up for debate, the fare is NOT double or triple the cost of first-class airfare, at least not for that particular city pair.

(Source: United.com, amtrak.com, and amsnag)

.

 

[MARC Rider]

Oh yes, and United has only one BWI - SFO flight. It leaves BWI at 0645 (which is nice, you have a whole day in San Fran), but the return flight is a redeye. I'd have to take the day off work when I got home to catch up on sleep.

The plane is a 737-900 FWIW

 

[Brian Battuello]

I appreciate <skyline>'s erudite comparison of travelling on Amtrak and long distance hiking.

I love travelling by train, especially in sleepers, and have seen it all. I tell people that travelling in an Amtrak sleeping car is an odd mix of cruise ship and camping, and it can swing either way dramatically at any time.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Amtrak is still typically cheaper than first class air tickets, *and* thanks to the TSA, first class air travel is deeply unpleasant now!

Have you considered Precheck or Global Entry?

For me and most people taking the train, the alternative to Amtrak is not flying, it's driving.

In the sleepers I see lots of people far too old and/or feeble to be driving themselves anywhere long distance. Or at least I would hope theyre not considering such a thing. If so that would seem awfully dangerous to me.

Chicago to Emeryville, lowest price available in Sleeper in the month of March, 2016 = $474 for one person in Roomette. Chicago to San Francisco, lowest first class airline ticket in the month of March, 2016 = $382 for one person, First Class on United. If you were going to have more than one carry-on piece of luggage, the cost would be about the same after luggage fees.

So on this particular date/time/pair Amtrak costs "only" 24% more than first class airfare. Im still not seeing how this counters the fundamental argument that Amtrak charges first class prices for grumpy second class service.

I just searched some fares. United Airlines First Class from BWI to SFO. Amtrak Sleeper from BWI to EMY (OK, the 20 minute trip from BWI to WAS is coach). July 11 to Aug 9, 2016

United Airlines First Class unrestricted is $1,140 - $1,180

Amtrak sleeper is $800 - $1,100

Whether the beef about the value proposition of an Amtrak sleeper is up for debate, the fare is NOT double or triple the cost of first-class airfare, at least not for that particular city pair.

My most recent cost check was San Antonio - Seattle - San Antonio in July with Amtrak running over $2,200 while multiple round trip first class airfares were running under $1,000 all-in. That's what they cost on the days I could travel to the city I wanted to visit. I never said every fare between every pair was double or triple the cost. I said Amtrak charges first class prices for second class service and that Amtrak often charges double (roomette) or even triple (bedroom) the cost. Which is exactly what I have experienced for several years now on trips I've priced both ways.

 

[Manny T]

My conclusion from reading this thread is that some folks compare Amtrak sleeper service to first class on the airlines, while others are prone to comparing it to camping (bring your snacks, duct tape, flash light, reading light, extension cord, electrical outlet strip etc.) Among these two groups, the first class airline folks seem to be disappointed with the experience, while the camping folks seem to be more satisfied.

In fact, sleeper class on Amtrak is probably unique, in a class by itself. Anyone who's taken it knows that. In my opinion, understanding how it works (or doesn't), with all its variations, is the key to being satisfied.

 

[sodium]

Chicago to Emeryville, lowest price available in Sleeper in the month of March, 2016 = $474 for one person in Roomette.

Chicago to San Francisco, lowest first class airline ticket in the month of March, 2016 = $382 for one person, First Class on United.

If you were going to have more than one carry-on piece of luggage, the cost would be about the same after luggage fees.

But I doubt very much that you could find a reputable hotel for $75-100 for the extra 2 nights! (Maybe $100 for 1 night, but not $100 total plus meals for 2 nights!)

I've never stayed in a youth hostel, but I think the Roomette was the closes thing to it. A meal at Chipotle will beat out any dish served on the train. So maybe $25/night for a comparable experience.

 

[Eric308]

Chicago to Emeryville, lowest price available in Sleeper in the month of March, 2016 = $474 for one person in Roomette.

Chicago to San Francisco, lowest first class airline ticket in the month of March, 2016 = $382 for one person, First Class on United.

If you were going to have more than one carry-on piece of luggage, the cost would be about the same after luggage fees.

But I doubt very much that you could find a reputable hotel for $75-100 for the extra 2 nights! (Maybe $100 for 1 night, but not $100 total plus meals for 2 nights!)

I've never stayed in a youth hostel, but I think the Roomette was the closes thing to it. A meal at Chipotle will beat out any dish served on the train. So maybe $25/night for a comparable experience.

You can have your Chipotle E. coli food. I've been riding trains for over 50 years and have never gotten sick, and no....a roomette is nothing like a youth hostel. Kind of like a sleeper in a big semi? Again, sorry to hear of your not so great experience. Maybe give it another, shorter shot? You should read this book....

http://www.amazon.com/Zephyr-Tracking-Dream-Across-America/dp/155850477X

 

[MARC Rider]

Chicago to Emeryville, lowest price available in Sleeper in the month of March, 2016 = $474 for one person in Roomette.

Chicago to San Francisco, lowest first class airline ticket in the month of March, 2016 = $382 for one person, First Class on United.

If you were going to have more than one carry-on piece of luggage, the cost would be about the same after luggage fees.

But I doubt very much that you could find a reputable hotel for $75-100 for the extra 2 nights! (Maybe $100 for 1 night, but not $100 total plus meals for 2 nights!)

I've never stayed in a youth hostel, but I think the Roomette was the closes thing to it. A meal at Chipotle will beat out any dish served on the train. So maybe $25/night for a comparable experience.

Travelling by train overnight is its own unique experience. Right now, unless you go abroad, Amtrak and private varnish rail tours are the only games in town, and am Amtrak sleeper ticket is cheaper than the tours. Plus you can make your own schedule, the trains run every day, or at least 3x a week.

I ride long distance trains about 2 or 3 times a year. While I agree that the level of service is inconsistent, I've never encountered any of the horror tales I read here. And I can tell horror tales about other modes of transport, too. How many times have I said I'll never drive the New Jersey Turnpike ever again? And you don't want to know about the horrible experience I had checking into my United flight at SFO, or flying Southwest out of LAX, including seemingly identical tasteless $9 cheese sandwiches on stale cardboard ciabatta. My experience is that Amtrak could be better, but is no worse than other transportation providers, none of whom can offer you the opportunity to sleep over night in a moving train in private space.

 

[Phil S]

Probably been said but let's also add in parking costs. I can park safely and for free for weeks at my Amtrak station (about 10 minute drive from home) and then take Amtrak bus to PDX. To fly out of PDX I have to take shuttle ($44 each way) and somebody needs to drop me off and pick me up at local shuttle point. Yes, I fly restricted first class and about 1 in 4 times I pay $150-200 to change the res. So frequently roomette is more expensive, but not always. In addition, for an early AM flight out of PDX (or an evening arrival) I insist on spending the night before (or after) at an airport hotel -- add in another $150/night plus meal.

For business travel, my University reimburses for what it would have cost me to fly -- coach, not first class. But I'm allowed to claim for the cost of a refundable plane ticket. I haven't done that -- yet.

 

[Radvlad]

Have to disagree with City of Miami--"the guys are gonna use the sink"--not this guy, not ever, never even occurred to me. If it's true, have to reassess my relationship to the sleeping car PAX I come across.

Any port in a storm.
Sink, shower, storm drain, or (in the case of a friend in college) out a convenient window.

I would hardly consider having to walk down the hall to the washroom "a storm".

I totally agree with Sarah. A walk down the hall isn't too much trouble. I think it would be harder trying to actually pee in the sink. If you miss, you have to live in it until you get off the train. No thanks!