E-Ticketing/SEPTA Question

[benjibear]

I just saw this on the SEPTA website:

"Amtrak Tickets | Only Amtrak paper tickets, presented for inspection, will be accepted as a fare to ride on Regional Rail trains between 30th Street Station and Market East Station. Customers are advised that SEPTA cannot accept an Amtrak ticket e-confirmation notice or electronic device (phone or computer) scan code as proof of purchase to complete this trip."

My understanding is Amtrak will no longer issue paper tickets. Does that mean no more free rides between 30th Street and Market East?

 

[Steve4031]

I just rode on Saturday with an Amtrak generated E-ticket for my keystone trip to NYC. I purposely printed it at the auto train station in lorton using an agent. I was not asked for a ticket. I suspect this would not have worked if tickets had been collected.

I would advise buying a ticket.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

If I read it correctly they will accept a printout of your e-ticket...the ticket not the confirmation.

 

[Acela150]

It doesn't matter either way. Septa does paper tickets. They don't have any kind of scanner. I would say by 2014 this may change. 95+% of the time you can ride from University City to Market East for free. As they perform a crew change at Suburban Station. Which is the "Half way" point of center city stations. They will start collecting tickets after Market East and After 30th Street. It's a quick 2-3 minute ride to University City where it's a 5 minute ride from Market East to Temple U.

There is no way for Septa to Punch the ticket. But I wouldn't worry about buying a ticket.

 

[benjibear]

I have only done this a handful of times but have never been asked to show my ticket. I was just wondering if they are looking for it now with the statement I saw on their website.

 

[PRR 60]

As a practical matter, SEPTA has no way to check for tickets between 30th Street and Market East IF you are riding on a train that is running from a suburban origination, through center city, and on to a suburban destination. On through trains, tickets are not collected in center city, and with the crew change at Suburban Station, there is no way for the new crew to know where you got on. The unofficial SEPTA free ride zone is a dirty little secret for Philly SEPTA users.

 

[fairviewroad]

95+% of the time you can ride from University City to Market East for free.

That's a little like saying "95% of the time you can walk out of the grocery store with a candy bar in your pocket for free."

Just because they don't catch you doesn't make it "free." If you do not have a ticket, it is theft of services (in the SEPTA case).

But yes, you are correct that a fare evader will go uncaught 95+% of the time between those destinations.

Keep in mind that the SEPTA offer only applies to the section between 30th St and Market East, so travel to University City or

Temple is not permitted with an Amtrak ticket.

So the question is, is an Amtrak e-ticket a valid fare instrument between 30th St and Market East? SEPTA's website is very clear:

Only "PAPER TICKETS" will be accepted. Whether this includes an e-ticket confirmation printed from a Quik-Trak machine or by

an agent is unclear...e-tickets printed out at home or on your smartphone are clearly not accepted.

So my reading is that technically, if you do not have a paper ticket, you are guilty of fare evasion. From an ethical and practical

standpoint, however, I do think it's fine to ride between 30th St and Market East "using" an Amtrak e-ticket. I think the SEPTA

pronouncement is more from a "CYA" standpoint. It gives them another tool to use to throw the book at trouble-makers, etc.

 

[Nickrapak]

95+% of the time you can ride from University City to Market East for free.

That's a little like saying "95% of the time you can walk out of the grocery store with a candy bar in your pocket for free."

Just because they don't catch you doesn't make it "free." If you do not have a ticket, it is theft of services (in the SEPTA case).

But yes, you are correct that a fare evader will go uncaught 95+% of the time between those destinations.

So my reading is that technically, if you do not have a paper ticket, you are guilty of fare evasion. From an ethical and practical

standpoint, however, I do think it's fine to ride between 30th St and Market East "using" an Amtrak e-ticket. I think the SEPTA

pronouncement is more from a "CYA" standpoint. It gives them another tool to use to throw the book at trouble-makers, etc.

You are not guilty of fare evasion; it's the conductor's responsibility to collect advance-purchase tickets and sell onboard tickets. If he or she does not fulfill this duty, it's not my fault. Every time I take the "free transfer", I am fully willing to pay the $3.50 if the conductor comes by to check tickets. If I try to sneak by without paying by hiding in a closed car or underneath the traps, then that's fare evasion.

To the OP: Amtrak will still issue E-tickets on Amtrak ticket stock, which is what SEPTA wants to see.

P.S. SEPTA's going to put fare-control turnstiles in at the center city stations in the near future, so the Amtrak transfer is moribund anyway.

 

[fairviewroad]

You are not guilty of fare evasion; it's the conductor's responsibility to collect advance-purchase tickets and sell onboard tickets. If he or she does not fulfill this duty, it's not my fault. Every time I take the "free transfer", I am fully willing to pay the $3.50 if the conductor comes by to check tickets. If I try to sneak by without paying by hiding in a closed car or underneath the traps, then that's fare evasion.

I see what you're saying. Technically you are correct, since SEPTA does not use a "proof of payment" system. So I will back off my statement somewhat, only to

add, respectfully, that if you purposely board a train without a fare when you could have easily bought a ticket from an agent, you are ethically guilty of fare evasion,

if not from a legal standpoint.

You say that you're fully willing to pay ... "IF" ... the conductor comes by to check tickets. But evidently you're not fully willing to pay ... IF ... the ticket counter is open.

Which at the three center city stations, the ticket counter is open for virtually every departure.

 

[Trogdor]

You are not guilty of fare evasion; it's the conductor's responsibility to collect advance-purchase tickets and sell onboard tickets. If he or she does not fulfill this duty, it's not my fault. Every time I take the "free transfer", I am fully willing to pay the $3.50 if the conductor comes by to check tickets. If I try to sneak by without paying by hiding in a closed car or underneath the traps, then that's fare evasion.

I see what you're saying. Technically you are correct, since SEPTA does not use a "proof of payment" system. So I will back off my statement somewhat, only to

add, respectfully, that if you purposely board a train without a fare when you could have easily bought a ticket from an agent, you are ethically guilty of fare evasion,

if not from a legal standpoint.

You say that you're fully willing to pay ... "IF" ... the conductor comes by to check tickets. But evidently you're not fully willing to pay ... IF ... the ticket counter is open.

Which at the three center city stations, the ticket counter is open for virtually every departure.

On the other hand, suppose one does buy a ticket from a ticket counter. If one then boards the train and the ticket is not lifted, that ticket would still be valid for the next ride. (and the next, and the next, etc., until either the ticket is lifted, or the ticket expires.) So, there's really no difference.

 

[jis]

So my reading is that technically, if you do not have a paper ticket, you are guilty of fare evasion. From an ethical and practical

standpoint, however, I do think it's fine to ride between 30th St and Market East "using" an Amtrak e-ticket. I think the SEPTA

pronouncement is more from a "CYA" standpoint. It gives them another tool to use to throw the book at trouble-makers, etc.

:lol: I am getting visions of trouble-makers saying "quick let us buy an Amtrak e-Ticket so that we can make trouble on SEPTA :lol: Juuuust kidding....

The ride from 30th St to Market East (actually originally to Suburban Station) was grandfathered in when Amtrak ceased operations to Suburban Station. But then again, since no one has ever checked my ticket between 30th St and Market East in all these years suggests that SEPTA does not particularly care who travels on those trains with what paid fare. Maybe they should just declare 30th St to Market East as fareless zone like in Portland OR, and be done with this charade.

OTOH, if they actually put in fare gates then they will be able to enforce purchase of fare instruments for these trips, so maybe they are just holding out for that day.

 

[fairviewroad]

On the other hand, suppose one does buy a ticket from a ticket counter. If one then boards the train and the ticket is not lifted, that ticket would still be valid for the next ride. (and the next, and the next, etc., until either the ticket is lifted, or the ticket expires.) So, there's really no difference.

I disagree. The ticket you have purchased entitles you to a single ride from Point A to Point B. Once you have taken that journey, you are no longer entitled

to ride anywhere using that ticket. Whether or not you can fool a subsequent conductor by presenting that ticket as evidence that you have paid is irrelevant.

I know that probably makes me a goodie-goodie, but I think that if you are riding multiple times on a single-ride ticket, you are cheating SEPTA.

Maybe they should just declare 30th St to Market East as fareless zone like in Portland OR, and be done with this charade.

I hear what you're saying, but while SEPTA in practical terms does treat the stretch between 30th St. and Market East as a fareless zone, it is not officially

such. A ticket to ride between those stations costs $3.50 or $4, depending on how and when you buy the ticket. Nowhere does SEPTA say you are not

obligated to pay the fare. The ride between 30th St and Market East is about 1.5 miles..why should that 1.5 mile stretch be free when a section of equivalent

distance somewhere else in the SEPTA system is not? To put it another way, if you rode between the same locations on the parallel Blue Line

subway (the "El") you would certainly pare the full fare, every time.

BTW, The Portland fareless zone is going away in about a week.