Does Silver Star Turn at Tampa?

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It is quite unique as an experience to take the Silver Star into Tampa. I'm amazed that it works so well without major delays to it's on time status.
 
Ryan said:
The wye in question is shaped more like a "T". It's right in the middle of this map:

http://g.co/maps/tfut4

The train comes in from the east, turns north, then backs down the left hand side and into the station. When it departs, it just heads straight out.
Click to expand...
Of course back when Tampa was served by the Silver Palm, it went back out on the track that it backed in on.
 
I wish this silly operation would go away. Have Star go down Ocala to Tampa, then swing on Lakeland branch to Auburndale and down to Miami.
 
That wouldn't work either. As far as I can tell, the track from Ocala comes in at Plant City so you'd still have to turn right and head for the same wye the current Star uses. And even that's assuming that CSX would allow that without making Amtrak/Florida pay for a third track all the way down since traffic is being shifted to this line from the line that SunRail will, and the current Amtrak trains use through Orlando.

The only way that I see that you can prevent a backup move is to terminate at Tampa, and even then you'd have to turn the equipment somehow, or runaround AutoTrain style, or use push-pull.
 
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MattW said:
That wouldn't work either. As far as I can tell, the track from Ocala comes in at Plant City so you'd still have to turn right and head for the same wye the current Star uses. And even that's assuming that CSX would allow that without making Amtrak/Florida pay for a third track all the way down since traffic is being shifted to this line from the line that SunRail will, and the current Amtrak trains use through Orlando.

The only way that I see that you can prevent a backup move is to terminate at Tampa, and even then you'd have to turn the equipment somehow, or runaround AutoTrain style, or use push-pull.
Click to expand...
The old Florida trains pre-Amtrak split in three at JAX, one down FEC to MIA, one down current route to Tampa/Sarasota, and one through Gainesville to St. Petersburg.

With FEC route getting restored, I would love to see this happen again. Though the switching at JAX would be ultra-hectic and the consist would look like a mess!
 
NE933 said:
I wish this silly operation would go away. Have Star go down Ocala to Tampa, then swing on Lakeland branch to Auburndale and down to Miami.
Click to expand...
That's what the Silver Palm did, it came down what's known as the S line, and it still had to go around the wye and make the backup move into Tampa. Then it would head out on the A line to Miami going south.

Coming north it came through Lakeland, went around the wye, backed into Tampa, then pulled out north on the S line through Ocala.

So it changes nothing as far as the required, "silly" backup move.

Matt is correct; the only way to eliminate the backup move for the passengers is to terminate in Tampa. And even then, you'd only eliminate it for the passengers as I said. The crew would still have to wye the train eventually.
 
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NE933 said:
I wish this silly operation would go away. Have Star go down Ocala to Tampa, then swing on Lakeland branch to Auburndale and down to Miami.
Click to expand...
The Tampa-S. Florida market makes up a good % of Silver Star riders.

Way back when, the Star wouldn't even switch to the A-line at Auburndale, but continue heading up the S-Line to Coleman (few miles south of Wildwood). Now that section of track is gone.
 
The Palmetto formerly Silver Palm took the former S line through Ocala and Wildwood to Tampa. The Seaboard Airline Railroad 's trains to the west coast split at Wildwood. The would have to change the Tampa Union Station to avoid the backup move. ACL.trains terminated in Tampa so always backed in. SAL backed in and then continued forward to St.Pete. Ac's trains to St. Pete used the direct line through Clearwater to reach St. Pete.
 
The old consist in the video is great. Anybody know the consist from then? Looks like two baggage - was the one with windows an old mail car? What about the coaches on the back, behind the sleepers? What was their story?
 
At the recent Gathering in Florida I took the Silver Star from Lakeland to DC after visiting my cousin in Lakeland.

A normal person boards the SS in Lakeland at 5.53 pm AFTER it has gone to Tampa and back. But I am not a normal person.

I had arrived at the station just before 4 pm. The train from Miami was due at 4.04

So on the the spur of the moment I asked the agent if I could board right now and ride to Tampa and back, just go ahead and board. To my pleasant surprise he said he would walk out with me and ask the conducter. The conducter said it was ok. and the sleeping car attendant could not have been nicer as the room was vacant anyhow.

I had not been to the Tampa station in decades. We arrived Tampa about 20 minutes early.

By the time we went through Lakeland finally headed straight to DC I was in my comfortable bedroom eating dinner in my room

I was happier than a pig in s---.

Oh yes, the long back up move was a treat. That because both stations in my native Chattanooga were stub end so it was always back in at one station and both back in for northbound and back out for southbound at the other.
 
Bill Haithcoat said:
At the recent Gathering in Florida I took the Silver Star from Lakeland to DC after visiting my cousin in Lakeland.

A normal person boards the SS in Lakeland at 5.53 pm AFTER it has gone to Tampa and back. But I am not a normal person.

I had arrived at the station just before 4 pm. The train from Miami was due at 4.04

So on the the spur of the moment I asked the agent if I could board right now and ride to Tampa and back, just go ahead and board. To my pleasant surprise he said he would walk out with me and ask the conducter. The conducter said it was ok. and the sleeping car attendant could not have been nicer as the room was vacant anyhow.

I had not been to the Tampa station in decades. We arrived Tampa about 20 minutes early.

By the time we went through Lakeland finally headed straight to DC I was in my comfortable bedroom eating dinner in my room

I was happier than a pig in s---.

Oh yes, the long back up move was a treat. That because both stations in my native Chattanooga were stub end so it was always back in at one station and both back in for northbound and back out for southbound at the other.
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Bill,

That Lakeland Agent is really nice. I once left my return ticket (roomette ticket) on the counter - he called me up on my cell number - confirmed it was mine, based on some info I gave him, and he said he would hold it at the counter for us. I was at a baseball game with my son (Tigers/Red Sox - spring game).

When we met him at the station he was very friendly and overall - we noticed that he was a great agent to all of the passengers. I had intended to write a letter to Amtrak, to mention the agents attributes. Also - what a really nice station they have in Lakeland. Overall - it seems like a perfect place to board or depart a train...
 
Here's a video showing the Silver Star's daily "ritual" on the Neve wye:



Some other thoughts about this thread:

1. Forget use of the "S" line through Ocala by Amtrak in the future; that ship has sailed.

2. Try booking a round-trip ticket from Lakeland to Tampa on the Amtrak website; verboten.

3. Is the Neve wye a "Y" or a "T". This video suggests it's a "K".

Ocala Mike
 
In Europe, the train would probably simply be run headfirst into TPA, then reversed, with the previously trailing cars in the lead (presumably pulled by a locomotive attached to the "rear" [now head] of the train). (This would be similar to the Surfliner at LAUS.) No wyeing would take place.
 
From the map, the train has to back over numerous highway grade crossings and two diamonds.

Is the route governed by signals?

Are the switches all power operated?

What is the method of operation over the diamonds?

How often are there grade crossing collisions while backing up?

JB
 
Think of it this way..... at present the Tampa - Miami market is being served by a single corridor train per day, which also conveniently happens to be an equipment move to get the consist for the New York - Tampa train to its maintenance base in Hialeah. And afterall since it is going that way anyway, why not allow people to book travel through Tampa on it?

Unless some really out of this world experience overtakes us it is highly unlikely that Tampa will ever get a maintenance base for LD trains of any sort, and any passenger service on the S line is even more unlikely. Afterall they just struck a deal moving all freight from the A Line to the S Line, so that the A Line can become exclusively passenger. Does anyone really expect CSX to now turn around and accept a passenger train on the S Line? Well perhaps for a king's ransom, since afterall there is always a price point where anything can happen, but not a practical one in this case.
 
chrsjrcj said:
NE933 said:
I wish this silly operation would go away. Have Star go down Ocala to Tampa, then swing on Lakeland branch to Auburndale and down to Miami.
Click to expand...
The Tampa-S. Florida market makes up a good % of Silver Star riders.

Way back when, the Star wouldn't even switch to the A-line at Auburndale, but continue heading up the S-Line to Coleman (few miles south of Wildwood). Now that section of track is gone.
Click to expand...
I think this explains much of the dilemma. The silliness is not backing into Tampa after Y-ing the train a mile or so away, it is rather the dog-tail style operation of going from Auburndale to reach Tampa, then traverse the same exact route to get back to Auburndale. I don't have a railroad map so I don't know exactly how this Coleman and Wildwood section of track existed, but it sounds like it allowed for a more sensible triangle run, if someone can correct me or fill us in if that's correct or not.

Is the right of way still intact for this Coleman part of the S-Line?
 
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It "effectively" doesn't exist; see post #23 above.

Tampa is a stub-end station, and is designed to be a TERMINAL. If Amtrak can't or won't service trains there, then maybe a shuttle service to connect to the "A" line is the way to go. I agree that the "retrograde" motion up and back on the Auburndale connector with the same train is ridiculous.

Ocala Mike
 
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