Do Border Patrol agents still board Amtrak trains in NY and elsewhere?

[BCL]

Can I use a Certificate of Naturalization for an I 9?


USCIS. Yes. The Certificate of Naturalization (Form N-550 or N-570) is an acceptable List C, #8 employment authorization document issued by the Department of Homeland Security. These documents were previously issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

I hire my employees remotely. How do I complete Form I-9?ExpandYou may designate an authorized representative to fill out Forms I-9 on behalf of your company, including personnel officers, foremen, agents or notary public. The Department of Homeland Security does not require the authorized representative to have specific agreements or other documentation for Form I-9 purposes. If an authorized representative fills out Form I-9 on your behalf, you are still liable for any violations in connection with the form or the verification process.

When completing Form I-9, you or authorized representative must physically examine each document presented to determine if it reasonably appears to be genuine and relates to the employee presenting it. Reviewing or examining documents via webcam is not permissible.

If the authorized representative refuses to complete Form I-9 (including providing a signature) another authorized representative may be selected. DHS does not require the authorized representative to have specific agreements or other documentation for Form I-9 purposes. If you hire a notary public, the notary public is acting as an authorized representative of you, not as a notary. The notary public must perform the same required actions as an authorized representative. When acting as an authorized representative, the notary public should not provide a notary seal on Form I-9.

Yeah - I did that about six years ago. However, not all notaries were comfortable doing it. We have a fairly high $10 max notary fee (which just about every one charges) in California - compared to as little as $2 in other states. I was charged $10 for notarizing a copy of my passport card and another $10 for filling out the I-9. They've received notice from the Secretary of State that under California law, only an attorney, US DoJ accredited representative, or licensed/bonded immigration consultant is allowed to fill an I-9 for a client. And an immigration consultant can't advertise that they're a notary. I don't think it prevents an in-person HR representative from doing so.

http://notary.cdn.sos.ca.gov/forms/notary-newsletter-2017.pdf

A notary public may notarize the signature on a document affecting the immigration or citizenship status of any person; however, under current law, a notary public who is not also an immigration consultant cannot do the verification tasks in connection with completing immigration forms because this activity is prohibited by the broad language of California Government Code section 8223. Only an attorney, a representative accredited by the U.S. Department of Justice, or a person who is registered by the California Secretary of State and bonded as an immigration consultant under the California Business and Professions Code section 22441 may assist a client in completing immigration forms. Additional information concerning immigration consultants, including the offering of non-legal assistance or advice on immigration matters, the qualifications to act as an immigration consultant and the requirements of an immigration consultant can be found in California Business and Professions Code section 22440 et seq.

The I-9 Federal Employment Verication Form is an immigration document in that it covers both citizens and noncitizens and also requires the employer or employer’s authorized representative to record and verify data. The duties of an immigration consultant cover these tasks too. Even if a notary public is functioning in a non-notarial capacity and does not use the phrase “notary public,” a notary public who is not also an immigration consultant is prohibited from completing the I-9 Federal Employment Verification Form.

A notary public acting only in the capacity of a notary public may notarize the signature(s) on the I-9 Federal Employment Verification Form. Unless a notary public also is qualified and bonded as an immigration consultant, a notary public cannot enter data provided by a customer on an immigration form, cannot sign the verification of that data, and cannot otherwise provide the services of an immigration consultant. There are special rules that apply to notaries public who are also immigration consultants, and those who advertise their services in a language other than English. A notary public is barred from advertising in any manner whatsoever that he or she is a notary public if the notary public also promotes himself or herself as an immigration specialist or consultant. (California Government Code section 8223.)

 

[PVD]

Somewhere, back in history, something happened that triggered those rules. California has a very high volume of forms because of seasonal farm labor, and I'm sure scams and ripoffs probably were a problem at some point. The feds don't have a problem with a company hiring someone to do their verification, the person can be a notary, but he is not acting in that capacity. The employer is still on the hook if it isn't done correctly.

 

[jis]

Digging all the way back to 1982 when I was hired (not involving divestitures/mergers/acquisition). what I used was my foreign Passport and I-94 with F1 Training Authorization stamped on it). All the associated forms were part of a thick wad of forms that were sent to me to fill and return. On the day I reported they inspected the Passport and I-94 before issuing me a company badge. All this took place in the iconic Ero Saarinen architected Holmdel Building of the Bell Laboratories in 1982.

 

[BCL]

Digging all the way back to 1982 when I was hired (not involving divestitures/mergers/acquisition). what I used was my foreign Passport and I-94 with F1 Training Authorization stamped on it). All the associated forms were part of a thick wad of forms that were sent to me to fill and return. On the day I reported they inspected the Passport and I-94 before issuing me a company badge. All this took place in the iconic Ero Saarinen architected Holmdel Building of the Bell Laboratories in 1982.

That was before the I-9 though. Before the I-9 there was no requirement for an eligibility check, but many employers did it anyways.

Somewhere, back in history, something happened that triggered those rules. California has a very high volume of forms because of seasonal farm labor, and I'm sure scams and ripoffs probably were a problem at some point. The feds don't have a problem with a company hiring someone to do their verification, the person can be a notary, but he is not acting in that capacity. The employer is still on the hook if it isn't done correctly.

We've had people advertising that they were "notario" which means something very specialized in Spanish. Such people are one step below practicing attorneys and are trained in the law. Notaries in the US of course are authorized to witness signatures and check documents, although I've heard of a few states where they can also conduct weddings.

 

[zephyr17]

That is not entirely accurate. A US Passport is proof of both identity and residence. The SS card is more important for non citizens because when banking id regs tightened, you could have a bank account (ss # reqd) but not be legally permitted to work. That is now printed (not valid for employment) on SS cards for people in that category. That is a non issue for a citizen. Everyone employed still has to execute a w-4 with aSS # for tax purposes anyway.

Reference for the above is the instruction set for the Form I-9

Sometimes employers take the easy way out, and require things they don't need to , or aren't legally allowed to. The feds specify which forms of id are acceptable, an employer can't legally decline to accept a particular category of ID. Chances are they didn't need you to keep filling out new forms, but some companies write and follow policy and procedure manuals in a defensive mode. (if we ask everyone who walks in the door to do this, we can't screw up and assume it is already done)

Correction, a US Passport is proof of identity and citizenship. It is not proof of residence.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Actually one of the most irritating to me ID abuses I can think of is various places requiring a Drivers Liscense or Non Drivers ID in place of other government issued Id such as a passport card. This is ridiculous and discriminatory, because it requires non-drivers (a highly discriminated second class of citizen) to identify themselves as such.

My wife doesn't drive, and usually gets by with a passport card, but sometimes it's an issue.

I don't like giving up my rights, but I have no wish to be a martyr about it. I am under no illusions about this being a free country. 9-11 removed most of the remaining vestiges of freedom, but the United States has never been a free country. Was McCarthyism freedom? The detainment of asians during WW2? I can't be a communist freely if I so choose? I can't, to this very day, be an observant Jew and operate a large variety of businesses in Paramus, NJ on the weekend.

I gave up trying to save the world years ago- the world has me out numbered. So I don't want to give up my freedom, and to extent that I have it I do not wish to lose it. Which means I politely show my identification to law enforcement officials, and act in the manner that will most quickly get them to dismiss me. Because that's the only freedom you've got, and the only freedom you are ever going to get in this country- or almost any other. And I use almost just to cover the possibility of some country somewhere where freedom actually exists in the manner Americans delude themselves into thinking they have. If there is one, I haven't found it.

 

[jis]

At least in Florida I had to provide a telephone or electricity bill, or a property tax assessment (or for rental, a lease) to prove residence for the Motor Vehicle Department. So yup. Passport is only good for identity and citizenship

Oddly, for Driver's License proving citizenship using a Passport was sufficient, but to get the Homestead Rebate on property taxes they insisted on the Naturalization Certificate. Go figure.

And then the Social Security Office said that a Passport works better than a Naturalization Certificate to establish citizenship, since their electronic link to DHS does not work that well. Facepalm!

Moral of the story ... have every possible document available. you never know which will or will not work where for what purpose!

 

[PVD]

The acceptable forms of ID for a drivers' license were changed by most states to be in compliance with federal regs so that they may be used for domestic air travel and entry into certain fed buildings. They have to accept the passport for DL under those rules. Some states offer more than one option, an ID process that does not verify legal presence in the US will result in a DL not meeting the "Real ID" standard, and at some point those DL will no longer be accepted at airports or fed buildings. NY issues non Real ID DL, EDL good for border crossing, and is expected to start offering Real ID compliant DL in a couple of years, but not stop issuing non fed acceptable DL.

 

[jis]

The acceptable forms of ID for a drivers' license were changed by most states to be in compliance with federal regs so that they may be used for domestic air travel and entry into certain fed buildings. They have to accept the passport for DL under those rules.

Yup. They will accept Passport, Passport Card, Naturalization Certificate or Birth Certificate. The original gold standard for citizenship are the Birth or Naturalization Certificates. Passport is a derived documentation, which gets its validity from having been based on a verified Birth or Naturalization Certificate.

Interestingly, once you have a Naturalization Certificate, they use that as the primary proof of your birth date also, and stop asking for the sometimes nonexistent foreign birth certificate.

 

[PVD]

Try dealing with birth records from no longer existing countries. I was coaching a team that qualified for State/District championships that had 2 brothers on it brought to the US as infants by their parents fleeing the civil war after the breakup of Yugoslavia. The offices of the government where they used to live was turned into a bomb crater. The normal process of getting a transfer from the IIHF recognized federation of one country to the federation of their new country is severely impeded when the old country no longer exists, and the new replacements aren't recognized yet. There was a way to work our way through the problem, but it was an interesting few weeks.

 

[Anderson]

You know, I was wondering about non-Real ID-compliant EDLs (since Washington State is on the list of states getting warnings posted at airports about those IDs not being accepted past next year). If nothing else, and this might just be me, but the idea of an ID being valid to cross the border but not to enter an airport comes off as absurd.

 

[PVD]

A border crossing EDL already meets the Real ID test and will be usable anywhere real id is required. It is the other licenses that certain states (like mine) offer that are not Real ID compliant that are in jeopardy of rejection. Real ID verifies legal presence in the US at the time of issuance, You can not have a non Real ID compliant EDL. NY currently issues both non real id compliant DL and EDL. We will be adding real id compliant in a few years, but that will not replace EDL.

 

[zepherdude]

They took my seat partner away once in Buffalo. I held up my passport, he had only some card to show. He mumbled a little and was gone in a heartbeat, Never seen again. I was checked in LAX at the gate once.

 

[jebr]

Yeah, an enhanced driver's license meets the REAL ID requirement even in states where the standard driver's license does not. We're in a similar situation here in Minnesota, and one solution if you absolutely need a REAL ID is to get an enhanced driver's license for an additional $15/4 years (although you might have to pay the additional $15 if you update your address and need a duplicate DL due to that.) However, the EDL is only offered at a limited number of driver license offices, and they're all only open from 8-9ish AM until 3:45 PM M-F, no weekend or evening hours. Considering there's a lot of other driver's license offices open later and on Saturdays, I doubt I'll re-update mine to an EDL. (I actually had an EDL until I moved and just didn't want to spend the time to update my EDL, so I downconverted to a standard license. My NEXUS card is perfectly fine for any REAL ID needs anyways.)

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I just stopped by an interior inspection point that is undergoing a major expansion. Turns out the number one way to avoid being molested for papers is to have the right commercial logo on your fleet vehicle. If you're part of the machine you're golden.

 

[BCL]

That is not entirely accurate. A US Passport is proof of both identity and residence. The SS card is more important for non citizens because when banking id regs tightened, you could have a bank account (ss # reqd) but not be legally permitted to work. That is now printed (not valid for employment) on SS cards for people in that category. That is a non issue for a citizen. Everyone employed still has to execute a w-4 with aSS # for tax purposes anyway.

Reference for the above is the instruction set for the Form I-9

Sometimes employers take the easy way out, and require things they don't need to , or aren't legally allowed to. The feds specify which forms of id are acceptable, an employer can't legally decline to accept a particular category of ID. Chances are they didn't need you to keep filling out new forms, but some companies write and follow policy and procedure manuals in a defensive mode. (if we ask everyone who walks in the door to do this, we can't screw up and assume it is already done)

Correction, a US Passport is proof of identity and citizenship. It is not proof of residence.

No passport is considered proof of residence. I've known plenty of expats who had a passport, which proved nothing unless endorsed with an immigrant visa. Even then it's iffy.

However, we had an issue in California over the acceptance of a passport as ID for purchasing alcoholic beverages. The California ABC had an advisory notice that a passport wouldn't meet the legal definition of an ID suitable for purchasing alcohol. The law required that an ID contain a description of the subject such as eye color, height, and weight. Passports typically don't contain this info. Foreign driver licenses generally aren't considered acceptable ID for that purpose either. A lot of international visitors were having difficulties buying alcohol as a result. So the legislature passed a law that specifically allowed for a US or foreign passport to serve as ID for purchasing alcohol.

 

[jis]

Interesting article on the subject of detention at the border for inspection issue in the Washington Post today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/02/13/can-federal-agents-detain-citizens-at-border-checkpoints-until-they-disclose-their-smartphone-passcodes/?utm_term=.6e92a1d52954

 

[PVD]

Peoples rights are different when re-entering the country than when traveling within it, and a customs inspection at the border is somewhat different than Border Patrol showing up on a train that doesn't cross the border.

 

[dlagrua]

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

I guess you have not been in a situation where you had plenty to worry about even when you had done nothing wrong. Some of us have been there and done that

Most law enforcement officers enforce the law while respecting the rights of the innocent. They take an Oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and most keep that Oath but not all. Most are there to protect your rights, but some believe that they ARE the law. Lets not forget the Amtrak policeman that was charged with murdering an unarmed man by shooting him in the back while running. Once, years back I was taking old parts off a friends car in the street to help a friend fix it. Two cops pulled over slammed me up against the car and accused me of stripping the car. I had to go call my friend to come out and straighten things out. Nothing came of it, but had i run I might have been killed. Point is that there is good and bad in every walk of life.