Do Border Patrol agents still board Amtrak trains in NY and elsewhere?

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ToniCounter

Service Attendant
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
198
Do Border Patrol agents still board Amtrak trains in NY and elsewhere?

What happens if a natural-born US citizen refuses to answer their questions?
 
They have been doing sweeps of the westbound 7 at WFH recently, but not long enough to delay the train. They show up 10-20 minutes before arrival and leave immediately after departure.
 
Do Border Patrol agents still board Amtrak trains in NY and elsewhere?

What happens if a natural-born US citizen refuses to answer their questions?
I'd point out that a natural-born US citizen has no special privileges with respect to law enforcement that a naturalized US citizen wouldn't have. You know, 14th Amendment? Does "Equal Protection Clause" ring a bell? About the only thing is Presidential and Vice-Presidential eligibility.

That being said, the worst thing that could happen is that Amtrak personnel require compliance and enforce it by forcing a passenger off a train for noncompliance. I don't know if the Border Patrol is busy on Amtrak, but the DEA and local law enforcement do run drug busts.
 
The whole Border Patrol thing in NY was a joke. They used to come on in Syracuse using the "within 100 miles of the border criteria" They took a beating from NY politicians when it became brutally apparent they were not trying to protect us from people entering the country illegally, they were trying to find ways to make drug arrests, normally the job of other law enforcement agencies, to justify jobs in their region. When they delayed a few trains the s--t hit the fan. Establishing "reasonable suspicion" while a much lower threshold than probable cause, is still pretty hard to establish with someone already on a train, and not boarding The courts have not always been kind to Border Patrol, they have a track record of pushing the envelope in ways they can't always justify when someone fights back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There are plenty of legit reasons for law enforcement activity at or around trains and stations. My comments are strictly aimed at ones that were blatantly stupid or abusive. We have also seen agencies play the "civil asset forfeiture" game, a perversion of what should be a useful tool in fighting crime,and that has been discussed extensively in the past.
 
Never seen one. The most likely point that they would board my train would be at Seattle (less than 100 miles from the Canadian border), but if you count the coastlines as a border and apply the 100-mile rule, it could be possible from Seattle to Eugene, and then Sacramento to Los Angeles. Which, again, they never boarded my train any of 20 times that I've been riding. What's it like when the border patrol boards the train (in terms of what are they looking for, and what kind of questions might they ask), other than holding the train while they are on? And what are the likelyhood for border patrol encounters on the trains that I will be riding (Sunset Limited, Southwest Chief, or Empire Builder)? I am not intending to avoid them, as I would be ready to answer any questions they might have.
 
so ling as I don't break any laws, they don't get personal, but I don't bring much into the US, since I have imported a shirt, a jacket, four apples (from CA, so maybe not even importing?), and three plastic bags, and whatever was in my stomach.
 
so ling as I don't break any laws, they don't get personal, but I don't bring much into the US, since I have imported a shirt, a jacket, four apples (from CA, so maybe not even importing?), and three plastic bags, and whatever was in my stomach.
Border Patrol doesn't particularly care about what you bring into the US as long as it's not contraband or illegal immigrants. That's Customs, which was traditionally an arm of the Treasury Department.
 
I believe train passengers entering the USA from vancouver ca are checked by us border patrol and customs in the vancouver station now, rather than on board the train itself.

Don't know what is done in the East, as it's been longer than Amtrak since I rode that route.
 
Well, good points, but my question is really whether or not the border patrol guys hop on a train that does not cross borders but otherwise come close to the borders (i.e. less than 100 miles away from the borders), and if they do, how likely.
 
. . .my question is really whether or not the border patrol guys hop on a train that does not cross borders but otherwise come close to the borders (i.e. less than 100 miles away from the borders), and if they do, how likely.
How likely? The probability (likelihood) of a Border Patrol agent boarding any Amtrak train is 0.173 or 17.3%. And even though I pulled that number right out of my Underoos, it's about as good as any other answer you're likely to get here - or anyplace else for that matter.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Does anyone remember whether the so called "Border Patrol" agents that used to board were actually CBP agents or ICE agents? I keep hearing the 100 miles thing so I surmise they are CBP agents, since they are not allowed to do anything beyond the 100 mile of the border area. OTOH ICE agents are allowed to operate anywhere within the US AFAICT, since their charter is to interdict illegal activities pertaining to or related to customs and immigration within the US. Roughly speaking their responsibility is described thusly:

responsible for identifying, investigating, and dismantling vulnerabilities regarding the nation's border, economic, transportation, and infrastructure security. ICE has two primary components: Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO).
Whenever I look up "US Border Patrol" usually it points to CBP.
 
Does anyone remember whether the so called "Border Patrol" agents that used to board were actually CBP agents or ICE agents? I keep hearing the 100 miles thing so I surmise they are CBP agents, since they are not allowed to do anything beyond the 100 mile of the border area. OTOH ICE agents are allowed to operate anywhere within the US AFAICT, since their charter is to interdict illegal activities pertaining to or related to customs and immigration within the US. Roughly speaking their responsibility is described thusly:

responsible for identifying, investigating, and dismantling vulnerabilities regarding the nation's border, economic, transportation, and infrastructure security. ICE has two primary components: Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO).
Whenever I look up "US Border Patrol" usually it points to CBP.
In WFH it has been CBP
 
Does anyone remember whether the so called "Border Patrol" agents that used to board were actually CBP agents or ICE agents? I keep hearing the 100 miles thing so I surmise they are CBP agents, since they are not allowed to do anything beyond the 100 mile of the border area. OTOH ICE agents are allowed to operate anywhere within the US AFAICT, since their charter is to interdict illegal activities pertaining to or related to customs and immigration within the US. Roughly speaking their responsibility is described thusly:

responsible for identifying, investigating, and dismantling vulnerabilities regarding the nation's border, economic, transportation, and infrastructure security. ICE has two primary components: Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO).
Whenever I look up "US Border Patrol" usually it points to CBP.
The Border Patrol has "sectors" based in Miami and New Orleans.

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/along-us-borders/border-patrol-sectors

They have the authority to do certain things without a warrant within 100 miles of the border. Also, the definition of border includes water boundaries.
 
In NY they were what used to be Border Patrol, not what used to br INS. Getting on a train that doesn't cross the border had nothing to do with border security. If someone snuck in from Canada and made it to Syracuse, me seeing someone walking through the train asking people what country they are from is not exactly reassuring. The whole picture became muddled when they all went under the Homeland Security umbrella, and they fight for recognition in a mega bureaucracy. There have been numerous cases where they have done things far in excess of their legal rights and mission, they have admitted to having not done a good job with training and supervision. All of these agencies have important jobs to do, if they focused on their real missions instead of what brings positive cash flow and big headlines we would all be better off.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
According to CBP, here is what the Border Patrol Operations are supposed to do:

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/along-us-borders/overview

It apparently does include drug traffic interdiction, in addition to illegal human traffic interdiction. Not saying anything about whether it is right or wrong. Just providing information on what their mission is according to them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Border Patrol/INS inspections of the LSL seem to have stopped some time ago. Complaints from Amtrak and local and state government officials seem to have brought about an end to these stupid inspections. Or maybe, they never found anybody and decided it was a waste of time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Relative to this discussion is how this WSJ reporter recently learned electrionic devices are fair game for CBP. Traveling across the border or within 100 miles of it on the train, sounds like you phone, tablet, etc is fair game no questions.

http://wesh.com/money/feds-try-to-forcefully-search-wall-street-journal-reporters-phone/40821836
What do you mean by fair game? And when they play fair game on electronic devices (to include my laptop that I am writing this reply from), what would they look for?
 
Back
Top