Delays

[Marquitio]

I frequently take the Amtrak Wolverine line from Chicago to Michigan, and have never once left Union Station at the scheduled time. Amtrak is prompt with announcing a poor excuse of why it's 200 passengers have been standing in a crowded room for over an hour and the train is still not there.

Once we are able to board, guests are likely to be greeted by rude staff and an extremely inefficient boarding system. That is expected traveling everywhere, but after over ten Amtrak trips I have never boarded my train on time or even within 15 minutes of the time planned. Missed a friend's birthday dinner today due to late trains, so don't ever plan on your ride being there on time.

My suggestion would be for everyone to checkout Megasbus.com and evaluate their fares before committing to this nightmare. Either that or wait until high speed rail comes to the U.S. It's no surprise to me the government had to save Amtrak from bankruptcy.

 

[RailFanLNK]

Then why aren't you riding Mega Bus these 10 times you wasted riding the train? Because I will tell you now....at least your standing INSIDE Chicago Union Station waiting for a train instead of standing in the outdoors in pouring rain, sleet or snow waiting for the Mega Bus to appear. One thing I have been told about Mega Bus is there is literally no employees to yell at or call when things go bad, because they don't answer the 800 number and they have no stations.

 

[NETrainfan]

Have not taken the Wolverine, but in over 20 years of traveling on Amtrak- many, many miles- we have only departed late a few times. Announcements were made and updated frequently. For us, train travel has been much more reliable than other forms of transportation.

 

[abcnews]

Boy, I can understand your frustration, what a record. That's pretty poor, but I don't think it is that simple to just blame Amtrak...

I'm thinking most delays are railroad delays - sometimes due to the tracks (bad track), or heavy freight volume, or sometimes the weather - even flooding is an issue. Keep in mind that Amtrak does not own the rails - except in the Northeast. So if a freight train has already occupied a stretch of rail, often Amtrak has to be patient, and wait for the host railroad to give them the clearance (the "green light"). Some railroads will park an Amtrak train on a siding (a side track - for storage), and make the Amtrak train wait until an important freight train can pass by. And many Railroad lines are "single track" and only one train can go at a time. And guess who does the dispatching - the freight railroad. They often decide - which train must sit, while another can pass by.

And then there is weather - next time you see bad weather (thunderstorms, snow, ice, etc..) check out the delays at the airport.

There probably are very few delays that are just the simple fault of Amtrak. So I would not fault them for the delays, they try to make the best of what some would say is a bad situation.

 

[George Harris]

Maybe they need to borrow some of the people involved in running the state supported service in California. That has to be high on the list of things done right here. Uually on time, alwasys clean, the people you meed acting like they want to be doing their job well. I have found it very impressive.

 

[LA Resident]

Maybe they need to borrow some of the people involved in running the state supported service in California. That has to be high on the list of things done right here. Uually on time, alwasys clean, the people you meed acting like they want to be doing their job well. I have found it very impressive.

This is very true, from the Surfliner to the Corridor to the San Joaquin, but it's hard to figure out why exactly. The CS is not an Amtrak California service but you read a lot about how the CS on-board crews seem more consistently happy and a pleasure to be around, compared with those on some other LD services. I can attest to that myself. Even the Cascades personnel are almost uniformly pleasant.

I'd like to think that Caltrans (the state's Department of Transportation) sets good ground rules for the employees but as I understand it, it's all still really run by Amtrak. So perhaps the better Amtrak supervisors and trainers migrate to the West Coast as seniority accrues? Just don't know but all of you traveling to the West Coast, enjoy it!

 

[PaulM]

Maybe they need to borrow some of the people involved in running the state supported service in California. That has to be high on the list of things done right here. Uually on time, alwasys clean, the people you meed acting like they want to be doing their job well. I have found it very impressive.

Having just ridden the PSL (from SBA to SAN) for the first time in 10 years, I can't disagree with you. But I didn't see any difference between the PSL personnel and that of the Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg, which I frequently ride, although I will admit I was impressed with the California cars compared to Horizons.

As to the original poster, I question his credentials as a statistician. 0 for 10 just doesn't ring true. I can't ever remember the IZ or CS not leaving on time; and it must be the same bunch that get the Michigan trains ready to go.

 

[rrdude]

Boy, I can understand your frustration, what a record. That's pretty poor, but I don't think it is that simple to just blame Amtrak...

I'm thinking most delays are railroad delays - sometimes due to the tracks (bad track), or heavy freight volume, or sometimes the weather - even flooding is an issue. Keep in mind that Amtrak does not own the rails - except in the Northeast. So if a freight train has already occupied a stretch of rail, often Amtrak has to be patient, and wait for the host railroad to give them the clearance (the "green light"). Some railroads will park an Amtrak train on a siding (a side track - for storage), and make the Amtrak train wait until an important freight train can pass by. And many Railroad lines are "single track" and only one train can go at a time. And guess who does the dispatching - the freight railroad. They often decide - which train must sit, while another can pass by.

And then there is weather - next time you see bad weather (thunderstorms, snow, ice, etc..) check out the delays at the airport.

There probably are very few delays that are just the simple fault of Amtrak. So I would not fault them for the delays, they try to make the best of what some would say is a bad situation.

Sorry but gotta call a "spade a spade". That sounds too Ampologist to me. Even if it isn't Amtrak's fault, it's their generally ****-poor method of communications to their customers that often make a tolerable situation WORSE?

 

[greatcats]

The above mention of Megabus pertains to me. I have reserved a cross country Amtra trip in Feb. - Flagstaff-Chicago-other means to Cincinnati, Cardinal to DC, Acela to Boston, Lakeshore to Chicago, CZ to California stopping in Salt Lake City for a wedding. The fly in the ointment is Chicago-Cincinnati. The Cardinal does not serve my purpose. Greyhound schedule, only 2 per day, gets me to Cincinnati too late in the evening - only 2 per day. The Megabus schedule and price are right on the money. But they have a baggage restriction of only one item under the bus and if the second item can't fit, then the passenger may be denied. I have a BiPap breathing machine ( medical equipment ) in a roller bag with its related items and that will not fit under the seat. I have Emailed them twice and have received no answer and a poster above says they don't answer the phone. Lovely. I am not going to risk showing up for Megabus to be turned away. The other alternative is to use my airline miles and fly United on this segment, but I would rather not bother going to the airport with all the hassle.

I am on a trip to Hong Kong at the moment. The United flight from San Francisco was over 14 hours, the longest flight I've ever been on. I am not saying it was horrible; the service and food were reasonably good, but it sure was a cattle car. And the harried transfer between terminals in SFO between my flight from Phoenix to the Hong Kong flight was highlighted by TSA pulling me out of line from the scan for the pat down. They were not rude, but it sure leaves one shakiing my head over this state of affairs. Hong Kong is fine - here for a symphony concert, but I sure am looking forward to being on the more civilized Amtrak!

 

[FunNut]

. . . Either that or wait until high speed rail comes to the U.S.

Unfortunately, that could be a very long wait indeed.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

In an effort to debunk the original poster's claim of batting zero percent on leaving CHI on-time, I looked up the two Wolverines' route performance record. Folks, unfortunately I've got to say that in his claim that he has never left CHI at the scheduled time, he could be telling the truth! Train 352 has an on-time rate of 6.5% - yes I wrote that correctly - 6.5% for the month of December 2010! I think if I was a regular rider of that train, I would be frustrated too.

 

[PennCentralFan]

I was on the wolverine to Michigan on Jan. 9. We left on time. I took the wolverine on Nov. 24 and we left on time. I've been on the wolverineke a few times going to Michigan. I take the 6:00pm train so maybe it's a better train. Amtrak personal have been very nice to me. I think you'll find amtrak people nicer than airline people.

I also have reason to doubt the validity of your post. You sound like someone who wants to cut amtrak funding or a proponent of megabus.

Additionally I really think this is the type of post that should be deleted. This forum should be positive and a proponent of amtrak and not a site to advertise megabus. We as amtrak proponents need to be pro-Amtrak in a public forum like this. We don't want people who are new to amtrak to be turned off to amtrak by posts like this which as I said I doubt is true.

 

[greatcats]

I think there is room in this forum for criticism of Amtrak, and I am certainly a proponent of it. I mentioned Megabus in a post in this thread, and I am going to take it, because I uncovered that medical equipment is OK in baggage, but am not impressed that they have not answered my Emails. Amtrak is not perfect, and I have been frustrated with it at timesw, too, but I have had a number of good thingws to say about the trips I have taken, and I would not have thought to book my extensive trip around the country by Amtrak if I did not have a reasonable amount of confidence in their service. ( See also my post of a few days ago, which produced little response, titled " Ticklet Agent Recognition. " ) I could point out better things about some Amtrak employees I have encountered, as opposed to the airline employees I had enroute to Hong Kong. Not that they were bad, but they were not exemplary like I can say about some of Amtrak's!

 

[Trogdor]

Nobody can "debunk" the OP's claim, since we don't know which ten trips he rode. While being 0 for 10 on initial terminal performance sounds like really bad luck, being 0 for 10 in endpoint arrival sounds more than possible.

The Wolverine has the worst OTP of any route in the system, primarily due to NS's inability to dispatch trains Chicago-Porter, and their inability to maintain track to a reasonable speed between Kalamazoo and Dearborn.

I have also seen more than a handful of trains depart Chicago late for various reasons.

 

[Wildcat]

The W is horrid, I agree. But where did you get the notion that the government bailed out Amtrak? Amtrak itself was a bailout and is "owned" by taxpayers and always has been. It was created by a governmental act "absorbing" the passenger services of all the RRs in the US (the last holdout, I believe, was the Southern). You can't bail out a bailout when it's a quasi-government agency.

 

[Mackensen]

Well, I'm a fairly frequent rider of the Wolverine, in particular the 352 since it's the first train back to Michigan that the East Coast trains connect with, and I haven't experienced anything like what the OP is describing. I've certainly experienced delays, but the nightmare described by the OP is unusual. That being said bad things can happen; I passed through Union Station on January 2 on my way east and the 354 was delayed close to an hour. It was one of those extra long Wolverines with passengers staged in the Great Hall, and that never works smoothly.

Now, conversely, I did try taking Megabus once. I had a conference in Indianapolis and didn't want to wait for the Hoosier State so I booked Megabus CHI-IND. It was an absolute disaster. Megabus didn't have our bus ready so we all stood outside Union Station for two hours in the rain (!) waiting for a replacement bus. Staff provided no updates and were generally unhelpful. The bus which eventually showed up was very uncomfortable, with no wifi and and a broken-down air conditioner which in mid-June is a definite negative!

The moral of the story? Bad travel experiences can happen any time, any where, for any reason. Did this experience sour me on Megabus? Somewhat, yes. I'm hesitant to give them my business again and I balance this one bad experience against an overall good experience with Amtrak. If OP has truly had that many bad experiences with Amtrak then I sympathize I wouldn't blame him trying something else.

P.S. Amtrak originated as a government bailout of the private sector railroads in 1970-1971. Among Amtrak's many sins that's not one which can be counted against it.

 

[George Harris]

I am on a trip to Hong Kong at the moment. The United flight from San Francisco was over 14 hours, the longest flight I've ever been on. I am not saying it was horrible; the service and food were reasonably good, but it sure was a cattle car. And the harried transfer between terminals in SFO between my flight from Phoenix to the Hong Kong flight was highlighted by TSA pulling me out of line from the scan for the pat down. They were not rude, but it sure leaves one shakiing my head over this state of affairs. Hong Kong is fine - here for a symphony concert, but I sure am looking forward to being on the more civilized Amtrak!

Completely off topic:

Greatcats: I spent 17 years working in Asia, most of them in Taiwan, but two of them in Hong Kong, so I have make this trans-Pacific trip somewhere above 20 times. Here are a few thoughts:

See if you can end up on one of the Asian airlines crossing the Pacific. There are quite a few that do codeshares with various US airlines. Did a flight several months back SFO to TPE on a China Airlines flight but reserved as if American Airlines through codeshare. At no point was I on an AA plane. (China Airlines is Taiwan based. China in this case equals the Republic of China on Taiwan, not the Peoples Republic of China on the Mainland.)

Cathay Pacific will get you non-stop to Hong Kong from some US points. Do not know who or even if they codeshare with in the US. There are others, China, Eva, and possibly some of the Japanese airlines that will get you there with one change of planes. Singapore is a nice airline, but don't know how they would be going to HKG, but for sure it would be as a stop on the way. They are almost certainly not going to sent you to Singaport first to get you to HKG from the US.

(When we first went over, entire family and I had one-way tickets to Taipei. The work contract - for two years - said I had to be there at least a year before I could come back at the company's expense, and if I did not stay at least a year, then I had to pay my own way back plus would owe the company for my tickets over and all the "settling in" money they gave me. Standing there in the Memphis airport surrounded by my family and all the luggage that we were allowed with 7 one way tickets in my hand, I came near to panic and chickening out on the whole thing. Very glad I did not. The family is unanimous in saying that going to Asia is the greatest thing we ever did. The total length of stay should tell you that I went through several different work contracts on more than one project.)

 

[the_traveler]

I have never been aboard the Wolverine, but if the OP is talking about the later trains, I may have an explanation. I'm not trying to excuse Amtrak, but this is a possible explanation.

The afternoon or evening Wolverine may (and I say may) be held for the arriving Western LD trains that may arrive late! (These are the EB, CZ, SWC and TE.) If you were a passenger on one of those trains connecting to the Wolverine, I'm almost sure that you would not complain that the Wolverine was held 20 minutes so you could make the connection - and not leave "on time" and force you to stay overnight!

But by reading what the OP wrote, (s)he is more important than those other passengers!

 

[saxman]

I also have reason to doubt the validity of your post. You sound like someone who wants to cut amtrak funding or a proponent of megabus.
Additionally I really think this is the type of post that should be deleted. This forum should be positive and a proponent of amtrak and not a site to advertise megabus. We as amtrak proponents need to be pro-Amtrak in a public forum like this. We don't want people who are new to amtrak to be turned off to amtrak by posts like this which as I said I doubt is true.

So when someone comes on here and has a complaint about Amtrak, their post should be deleted because it makes Amtrak look bad? Since he came here and said they might try Megabus, they somehow are a troll that's trying get funding cut for Amtrak and advertise for Megabus? While I know that most of us on here support Amtrak and funding for, I'm sure most of us will criticize it as well. That's how things get better.

 

[greatcats]

I am on a trip to Hong Kong at the moment. The United flight from San Francisco was over 14 hours, the longest flight I've ever been on. I am not saying it was horrible; the service and food were reasonably good, but it sure was a cattle car. And the harried transfer between terminals in SFO between my flight from Phoenix to the Hong Kong flight was highlighted by TSA pulling me out of line from the scan for the pat down. They were not rude, but it sure leaves one shakiing my head over this state of affairs. Hong Kong is fine - here for a symphony concert, but I sure am looking forward to being on the more civilized Amtrak!

Completely off topic:

Greatcats: I spent 17 years working in Asia, most of them in Taiwan, but two of them in Hong Kong, so I have make this trans-Pacific trip somewhere above 20 times. Here are a few thoughts:

See if you can end up on one of the Asian airlines crossing the Pacific. There are quite a few that do codeshares with various US airlines. Did a flight several months back SFO to TPE on a China Airlines flight but reserved as if American Airlines through codeshare. At no point was I on an AA plane. (China Airlines is Taiwan based. China in this case equals the Republic of China on Taiwan, not the Peoples Republic of China on the Mainland.)

Cathay Pacific will get you non-stop to Hong Kong from some US points. Do not know who or even if they codeshare with in the US. There are others, China, Eva, and possibly some of the Japanese airlines that will get you there with one change of planes. Singapore is a nice airline, but don't know how they would be going to HKG, but for sure it would be as a stop on the way. They are almost certainly not going to sent you to Singaport first to get you to HKG from the US.

(When we first went over, entire family and I had one-way tickets to Taipei. The work contract - for two years - said I had to be there at least a year before I could come back at the company's expense, and if I did not stay at least a year, then I had to pay my own way back plus would owe the company for my tickets over and all the "settling in" money they gave me. Standing there in the Memphis airport surrounded by my family and all the luggage that we were allowed with 7 one way tickets in my hand, I came near to panic and chickening out on the whole thing. Very glad I did not. The family is unanimous in saying that going to Asia is the greatest thing we ever did. The total length of stay should tell you that I went through several different work contracts on more than one project.)

Actually, I have always thought well of United, but could have taken a Cathay Pacific flight. I scheduled the one I did because the arrival and departure times were civilized. Thanks for your information, thbough. In a few weeks i will board the Cardinal eastbound at a civilized hourin Cincinnati, providing Megabus gets me to that city! haha!

 

[greatcats]

I am on a trip to Hong Kong at the moment. The United flight from San Francisco was over 14 hours, the longest flight I've ever been on. I am not saying it was horrible; the service and food were reasonably good, but it sure was a cattle car. And the harried transfer between terminals in SFO between my flight from Phoenix to the Hong Kong flight was highlighted by TSA pulling me out of line from the scan for the pat down. They were not rude, but it sure leaves one shakiing my head over this state of affairs. Hong Kong is fine - here for a symphony concert, but I sure am looking forward to being on the more civilized Amtrak!

Completely off topic:

Greatcats: I spent 17 years working in Asia, most of them in Taiwan, but two of them in Hong Kong, so I have make this trans-Pacific trip somewhere above 20 times. Here are a few thoughts:

See if you can end up on one of the Asian airlines crossing the Pacific. There are quite a few that do codeshares with various US airlines. Did a flight several months back SFO to TPE on a China Airlines flight but reserved as if American Airlines through codeshare. At no point was I on an AA plane. (China Airlines is Taiwan based. China in this case equals the Republic of China on Taiwan, not the Peoples Republic of China on the Mainland.)

Cathay Pacific will get you non-stop to Hong Kong from some US points. Do not know who or even if they codeshare with in the US. There are others, China, Eva, and possibly some of the Japanese airlines that will get you there with one change of planes. Singapore is a nice airline, but don't know how they would be going to HKG, but for sure it would be as a stop on the way. They are almost certainly not going to sent you to Singaport first to get you to HKG from the US.

(When we first went over, entire family and I had one-way tickets to Taipei. The work contract - for two years - said I had to be there at least a year before I could come back at the company's expense, and if I did not stay at least a year, then I had to pay my own way back plus would owe the company for my tickets over and all the "settling in" money they gave me. Standing there in the Memphis airport surrounded by my family and all the luggage that we were allowed with 7 one way tickets in my hand, I came near to panic and chickening out on the whole thing. Very glad I did not. The family is unanimous in saying that going to Asia is the greatest thing we ever did. The total length of stay should tell you that I went through several different work contracts on more than one project.)

Actually, I have always thought well of United, but could have taken a Cathay Pacific flight. I scheduled the one I did because the arrival and departure times were civilized. Thanks for your information, thbough. In a few weeks i will board the Cardinal eastbound at a civilized hourin Cincinnati, providing Megabus gets me to that city! haha!

Make that the uncivilized hour of 3:24 am!

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I also have reason to doubt the validity of your post. You sound like someone who wants to cut amtrak funding or a proponent of megabus.
Additionally I really think this is the type of post that should be deleted. This forum should be positive and a proponent of amtrak and not a site to advertise megabus. We as amtrak proponents need to be pro-Amtrak in a public forum like this. We don't want people who are new to amtrak to be turned off to amtrak by posts like this which as I said I doubt is true.

So when someone comes on here and has a complaint about Amtrak, their post should be deleted because it makes Amtrak look bad? Since he came here and said they might try Megabus, they somehow are a troll that's trying get funding cut for Amtrak and advertise for Megabus? While I know that most of us on here support Amtrak and funding for, I'm sure most of us will criticize it as well. That's how things get better.

That is EXACTLY what I thought when I read the post. Thanks for saying it so well!

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Nobody can "debunk" the OP's claim, since we don't know which ten trips he rode.

From Google:

de·bunk/diˈbəNGk/Verb1. Expose the falseness or hollowness of (a myth, idea, or belief).

Based on this definition, I have to respectfully disagree with you. If Train 352 had an OTP of even 50% the OP's claim of never leaving CHI on-time would ring pretty hollow!

 

[rrdude]

I have never been aboard the Wolverine, but if the OP is talking about the later trains, I may have an explanation. I'm not trying to excuse Amtrak, but this is a possible explanation.

The afternoon or evening Wolverine may (and I say may) be held for the arriving Western LD trains that may arrive late! (These are the EB, CZ, SWC and TE.) If you were a passenger on one of those trains connecting to the Wolverine, I'm almost sure that you would not complain that the Wolverine was held 20 minutes so you could make the connection - and not leave "on time" and force you to stay overnight!

But by reading what the OP wrote, (s)he is more important than those other passengers!

Dave, that's a good explanation, but it almost is an "excuse"! I feel the OP pain. IF, Amtrak were to admit that the W was going to be a "catch-all" for many LD trains (and I'm not sure that it is) then Amtrak should back-up it's CHI departure time. Nothing worse for travelers than to be either late departing, or late arriving, (obviously there are "Worse" but from a marketing standpoint, you are not giving the traveler, [not 'the_traveler"] what they bought.)

 

[rrdude]

I also have reason to doubt the validity of your post. You sound like someone who wants to cut amtrak funding or a proponent of megabus.
Additionally I really think this is the type of post that should be deleted. This forum should be positive and a proponent of amtrak and not a site to advertise megabus. We as amtrak proponents need to be pro-Amtrak in a public forum like this. We don't want people who are new to amtrak to be turned off to amtrak by posts like this which as I said I doubt is true.

So when someone comes on here and has a complaint about Amtrak, their post should be deleted because it makes Amtrak look bad? Since he came here and said they might try Megabus, they somehow are a troll that's trying get funding cut for Amtrak and advertise for Megabus? While I know that most of us on here support Amtrak and funding for, I'm sure most of us will criticize it as well. That's how things get better.

Well said Saxman, well said.The day this forum starts deleting topics, for reasons other than personal attacks or other obvious slurs, is the day this forum is dead to me.

Criticism is a key thing that makes firms, organizations, and even individuals BETTER.

If you just want a forum for nothing but positive, mouth-slobbering, foaming Amtrak fans, this isn't, (at least I hope) the place.