Crap on the Cap

[Anderson]

I've held off on commenting too much on this front for a while, and I lost a draft post on this point to a computer lockup, but there are some very real issues with the diner service on the Capitol Limited EB out of Chicago. I specify the EB Cap because, for reasons I don't understand, the service has always been spot-on with the WB Cap (out of DC).

As noted by Dave (the_traveler) on his trip, the service at dinner tends to be slow. I've occasionally chalked this up to the need to start up dinner as soon as the train leaves Chicago, combined with the occasional hell-breaks-loose-with-a-bad-ordered-diner experience. But it seems to be a consistent theme (slow service and frequently "runaway" late dinner times, combined with occasionally high-handed/rude staff). I've run into it at least twice in the last 18 months; the other time, the "slow service" played well against me struggling with a cold and having an excellent time socializing at dinner, so the staff sort-of succeeded in spite of themselves.

In particular, on the last trip I was most put-off by the staff's attitude (and it was definitely attitude) when I headed into breakfast later than I usually do, only to be told that:
-The diner was full (that's fine, it happens, been there/done that)
-There was no waiting list (they just "knew" who was waiting...only to somewhat later actually start up a list)
-And to reprimand me for not coming to breakfast early enough.

Now, I know I dozed in late (it was at the back end of a two-week trip and I'd had trouble sleeping all night), and I expected to be wait-listed. The problem was points two and three (not having a list to sign up on and blaming me for coming in too late).

What is interesting is that I don't recall the experience tending to be so bad a few years ago. Did a bunch of the staff in a few crews just retire at once or something?

Edit: Also, I know I'm not the only one, but with Dave's post/comments I'm starting to wonder about the prevalence of this problem. Has anyone else had issues with the Cap, EB in particular?

 

[Lakeshore]

When we came back home a few weeks ago on the Cap, CHI-CLE, they were definitely slow. The crew seemed nice enough, though. We went to the first seating and they loaded up half of the dining car. Then when they called for the next seating, our waiter went to work the other half of the car, leaving us alone for a while. The LSA was training a new person (which probably didn't help the situation) and had to refill our drinks and get our desserts. The slowness doesn't really bother me much, if they have a good attitude then I don't mind. But as the evening went on, the 7:00 call became 7:30, the 8:00 and 8:30 calls were at 8:30. I think they were making last call around 9 or 9:15.

 

[edward]

I have been riding Amtrak "off and on" for over twenty-five years. I

have never had a bad experience until now. For years, I have

enjoyed great service and an awesome experience on Amtrack

until I boarded what I call the "Train From Hell," today. When did

Amtrak Conductors become play ground bullies? At what point did

Amtrak management lose control over one of their trains? I simply

don't understand why I can have a great experience on dozens of

Amtrak trains and then everything changes on the "Train From

Hell." Here is what happened.

It appears that and "I did not know this," one Amtrak conductor

makes his own rules as to how he is going to treat customers.

Basically, train 59 has reckless disregard for Amtrak company

policy. I was under the impression that you could not reserve a

specific seat in coach class. The idea behind this is that if you one

of the first people in line, then you can get a window seat if you ask

for it. I have done it many times. In fact, up until now, I have done it

every time. I have an injury from my years in the Army that makes it

hard for me to sit in an aisle seat. I can't sleep so I ask for a

window seat. I at no time use my service for my country as an

excuse to kick anyone out of their window seat. I have never had a

problem getting a window seat. I get in line early and there are

plenty of them available. Today was different. I was on the last leg

of a very long trip across our beautiful country. I changed trains and

was ready to board my next train and checked in with my new

conductor. Right away, this guy had huge attitude. He was a bully

and the way he treated the customers in front of me shocked me. It

was my turn to approach him, and I did with a smile. I was the

seventh person to check in on a car that had over fifty seats.

Twenty-five of them were window seats. I asked him if I could

please have a window seat, and he told me "no" in a semi violent

voice and to get on his train. I did as he asked but was concerned

when I got into my seat, and I saw that over twenty people behind

me were going to get a window seat. People who arrived late to

the train and did not stand in line in front of me. The conductor

could have given me anyone of twenty window seats without any

problem, but he is one of those guys who lets a little power go to

his head. It gets worse as he bullies several of the African

American passengers aboard the train later.

Obviously, I could not sleep so I am writing this complaint letter to

the Amtrak CEO and others in command. I guess that I might have

been ok with the bully hoarding the window seats so that he could

pick and choose what color person he gave them too if he had not

been such a horrible person later that night. I am actually a white

guy. I would find out later the conductor only catered to Caucasian

guys who have very short hair. All others could expect to get

harassed, woken up out of a dead sleep for no reason and

basically looked down on from the bully on train number 59. I was

embarrassed to be in this guy's color class. I know that I am right

in writing this complaint letter because I have used Amtrak many

times, and I know that they do not allow "Rogue Conductors," to

change company policy on a whim. I now that Amtrak

management would want to know if one of their conductors was on

some kind of "Bully Power Trip." Seriously, This guy is a real

piece of work. I rarely take the time to write customer complaint

letters. I know that there are these kinds of people everywhere in

the world, and that we need to look the other way when see this

kind of thing. I have been woken up four times now for no reason,

and I have not had any sleep tonight. So, I decided to use the time

in a constructive manner.

 

[SarahZ]

Edward - I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. Unfortunately, this forum is made up of Amtrak passengers and a few crew members who like to discuss trains, so your message won't get passed along. (Do consider joining, though, since you ride Amtrak frequently!)

I would recommend calling Amtrak Customer Relations at 1-800-USA-RAIL. You may have to leave a message or wait for an official response, but several people on this forum have had good luck and even received small travel vouchers as compensation. Be sure to let them know your travel date, your train number, and a description of the conductor so they can determine who was assigned to that car.

If you'd rather send a letter, you can mail it to:

Amtrak Office of Customer Relations
60 Massachusetts Ave. NE
Washington, DC 20002

I suggest calling, though, since it can take several weeks for them to process your letter and send you a response. Some people send email, but most of them are told to call the toll-free number. The number really is the best way to go.

 

[AlanB]

Edward,

Based upon your description I rather suspect that was the car attendant, not the conductor. It sounds like this person was with you for the entire trip, and the conductor would have gone off duty and left the train during the overnight hours.

 

[TVRM610]

As to the original post, I have had consistently bad dining car service on the Capitol. It is always slow, and yes many times rude and/or lazy.

This has been my experience on this train since 2008, my most recent trip was February of this year.

 

[the_traveler]

I agree that most crews are fine, but I've had some bad crews at times too. However that referenced trip was the "straw that broke the camel's back" - especially with a first time rider at my table.

As most of you know, I am an Amtrak Supporter to the n'th degree! That is no way to introduce Amtrak to a new passenger!

I am going to bypass the normal channels and address my letter directly to Big Joe (Boardman)! I think more action will take place if it comes down from the too! :excl:

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Wait, The CL is not train 59. It appears that Edward intended to start a new discussion? What train is # 59?

 

[Dovecote]

In regard to OP question, of all the LD trains I traveled I find the dining car staff on the CL the most unpredictable when it comes to the efficient and kindly service. As matter of fact, say about six years ago or so, I had a string of some horrible trips with rude and inefficient service that I was considering strictly having meal service in my room in lieu of the alternative. The staff got better in subsequent trips. Well at least for me however.

I do however see some dining car issues on the eastbound CL on my trips. As I mentioned previously in another post, there is the unannounced lunch that is always clouded in mystery. The staff does there best to hide the availability of this meal. About the worst infraction I have witnessed, on more than one occasion, is the refusal of lunch service to coach passengers after 10:30AM or so when the train is running late. They are told in a stern manner that lunch is for sleeping car passengers and coach travelers wanting lunch purchase food in the cafe section of the lounge car.

 

[pennyk]

Wait, The CL is not train 59. It appears that Edward intended to start a new discussion? What train is # 59?

City of New Orleans

 

[oregon pioneer]

Since it seems to be a recurring event (at least on that train), I do hope the OP and others receiving such horrible service on the CL will complain to Amtrak customer service. If it's allowed to pass without comment, it will probably continue, and even spread. That would indeed be a pity.

I'll try and report back after my trip on the CL in December, and join in the chorus if more complaintrs are warranted. I've received so much good service from Amtrak employess, I'd hate for the good ones to see bad service tolerated. They might get the idea that it's not worth the effort... :blink:

 

[pennyk]

Quite a few AU members will be taking the eastbound CL on our way home from the Gathering in October. Should be interesting.

 

[the_traveler]

Wait, The CL is not train 59. It appears that Edward intended to start a new discussion? What train is # 59?

City of New Orleans.

I think he meant #29 - which is the westbound CL!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Quite a few AU members will be taking the eastbound CL on our way home from the Gathering in October. Should be interesting.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Blackwolf]

Interesting topic. The only two meals I've had on the Capitol Limited (Dinner and Breakfast) were superb this last December en-route to DC. The diner itself was very impressive, having been a very-recent rebuild with 100% LED lighting and a decor similar to 8400 but Superliner-style And the staff were no better or worse than any other train I've experienced in my 24,000 or so miles aboard Amtrak. In fact, the CL's steak was hands-down the absolute best I've ever had aboard a train (VIA's Canadian included!)

I have, however, been subject to bad staff and rude employees just like many others while traveling. If the service is as bad as described above, why not confront the issue right then and there instead of being passive-aggressive? You are not going to be put off the train by being a responsible adult who politely but sternly makes their annoyance on awful service known to the employee(s). If your server is absent, flag any other employee down to ask for what you need. If the meal is inedible, you have the right to send it back and get a replacement without additional charge or hassle. If the entire dining car staff is flippant and rude, singe out the manager (LSA) and tell it to them straight why you are an unhappy customer. If the LSA is inept, you have the legal right to gain that person's name and make a testimony to the management who is in charge of them for proper action. If retaliation is something you fear, then you have the option of either eating in your room (sleeper) or eating at your seat (coach.) This is Amtrak company policy, and you as the customer are in the driver's seat. To those who would lambast Amtrak employees as untouchable due to a big, bad union who will shield the rotten apples from ramification, some may remember my experience with a bad car attendant on my trip aboard the Cardinal also this past December. That person no longer works for Amtrak, and the decision for a career change was not her's to make (read: Fired.)

Do as you may with your own travels and experiences. But for me, as a manager and a leader in my career field, the best way to handle an issue is to "nip it in the bud" the moment it appears.

 

[crescent2]

You have valid points. However, I can understand why many people (me included) don't like to cross food service workers simply because they have too much control over what extra items may go into your food! With other service problems, going to the LSA or conductor might help the situation. But if the conductor is the problem, you have no immediate recourse. Also, as a warning to new visitors here, the conductor has absolute authority to throw you off the train, so keep that in mind. If he's already a bully, saying too much to him or her would not be advisable. You might be right, but you could still be left standing by the track.

I agree that a call to customer relations is in order in either case. I don't consider that to be passive-aggressive behavior. I've phoned customer relations to compliment good employees as well.

Horrible service or attitude should not be ignored. If Amtrak is unaware of a problem, they can't fix it. And, fair or not, it's often the unpleasant experiences that people remember and tell others.

 

[Anderson]

Honestly, it's not passive-aggressiveness. It's that I've usually been extremely tolerant of dubious service (the closest I ever came to writing a report like this was issues with the "sealed cafe" on the Meteor, and that was more of a chronic issue not related to a single crew than it was anybody in particular) and I'm not sure who I can meaningfully take to task while on the train.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Wait, The CL is not train 59. It appears that Edward intended to start a new discussion? What train is # 59?

City of New Orleans.

I think he meant #29 - which is the westbound CL!

Guest Edward wrote "59" twice - I'm not sure that Guest Edward was on the same train as OP Anderson (it's not uncommon for guests to post on someone else's thread, probably as a result of Googling their issue & replying to that thread, rather than necessarily coming to this board specifically to look for help). I think these are two unrelated comments about unrelated trains.

 

[dlagrua]

The secret to getting served a dinner on time, on the Eastbound CL is to reserve for the first seating. With that time slot the service is acceptable but by no means stellar. From our experience, breakfast service Westbound can be very slow and the table service inefficient. At least the food arrived warm on our last trip. Last time we had breakfast on the CL, (Sausage, Eggs and French toast) it was served COLD, not warm, but COLD. We didn't send it back but if it happens again next month then we will send it back for warming.

The dining car crew on the CL for the longest time, had to deal with serving meals in the awkward layout of a CCC car. Now that the diner has returned, ( believe that it was in 2011) perhaps they are still having trouble dealing with the requirements of the Superliner diner. If enough people complain maybe the dining car service will get better but we cannot blame everyone. In contrast we had an SCA on the CL that was nothing short of outstanding. His name was Darryl and he was very helpful in every way. He probably earns great tiops as I cannot see anyone disliking this man.

 

[NAVYBLUE]

I am a newbie having only made (2) LDs, Dec 2011 (LAX-WAS) and Dec 2012 (RNO-WAS) both directions. Being OCD/Anal Retentive I write exact names/dates/times as pertains to sleeper/diner/conductor service.

CL (2012)

EB SCA (Rodney) LSA/SA (Brian/Eric) Average to above average

WB SCA (Arthur) LSA/SA (Brian/Eric/Jack) Average to above average

CL (2011)

WB SCA (Phil) LSA/SA (Craig/Lawrence Above average to superior

Having 40+ years in Customer service, sales, food service, finance, I tell people with complaints to go to the head of the line. CSRs on 800 numbers are at the bottom of the power curve and can not normally resolve issues, get you compensation for poor service or get the problem solved to save others from having the same problem. I don't write my letter until I get the name of the President/VP/Exec VP or Director of the specific department that can address the problem. It takes time and research, but with the Internet the info is there if you are willing to put in the time. If everyone who has a problem writes, things can sometimes get changed. If the majority complains on AU but never writes then AMTRAK things all is well.

I wrote to the Director of AMTRAK customer service in Philadelphia by name after a major problem on the SWC returning 1/12 and received a personally signed letter of apology AND a $600 voucher. Just wanted the problem solved and was not expecting the voucher.

WE can make AMTRAK better if WE write in addition to comments on AU. Somethings we have no control over, somethings we can affect.

NAVYBLUE

 

[Edgefan]

I totally agree that first seating avoids some of the service issues. I too have had issues on the eastbound CL (more than the WB) I have also had Daryll as an SCA and yes, he is incredible! I have also had SCA Larry, more than once, and he actually went to bat for me on a dining car service issue. I too call Amtrak on both poor and stellar service, I also put it in writing. I sometimes even get a personalized response. My main issue with the dining car service is the super secret, but you should automatically know this, breakfast lunch issues on #30. Problem is, rules seem to change every run. My wife and I (and grandson)have a roundtrip MTP to KIS 4/30/13 and return 5/5/13. Our connection in WAS is the 7:30 pm departure of #97 so an early breakfast and possibly a burger for lunch would tide us over until the Meteor. I know there are plenty of food choices in WAS. My point is, that you used to be able to have breakfast and lunch on #30 without being chastized or run through the ringer. I purposefully chose to route my return through NYP so we wouldn't HAVE to take the CL (#29). Taking LSL back into CHI. (I hope we get Mike as our SCA on the LSL!)

 

[Anderson]

If the LSL had a workable connection to the Meteor (as it did once upon a time), then LSL-Meteor would probably be my preferred ride home. Heck, if the Shoreliner were still running with a sleeper, I'd probably (costs allowing for it) opt for that.

What I really resent is being chastised for not getting up at 0630 for breakfast and not being able to waiting-list myself. That plus the dinner situation is rather off-putting. Probably emblematic of this (though not worthy of a complaint itself) was my after-dinner drink request (an Irish Coffee/Bailey's and coffee): On the Builder, Starlight, and Chief my drink was poured and stirred for me or delivered to me in that state. On the Cap, I was looked at like I was from Mars when I made the request and then had to mix it myself. It's particularly galling when you consider that the Cap is, along with the Starlight and Builder, supposed to be one of Amtrak's "show-off" trains while the Chief isn't...and yet service was a bit better on the Chief (my only issues there simply related to my SCA having the Transdorm as well, something I can sympathize with).

 

[Edgefan]

If the LSL had a workable connection to the Meteor (as it did once upon a time), then LSL-Meteor would probably be my preferred ride home. Heck, if the Shoreliner were still running with a sleeper, I'd probably (costs allowing for it) opt for that.
What I really resent is being chastised for not getting up at 0630 for breakfast and not being able to waiting-list myself. That plus the dinner situation is rather off-putting. Probably emblematic of this (though not worthy of a complaint itself) was my after-dinner drink request (an Irish Coffee/Bailey's and coffee): On the Builder, Starlight, and Chief my drink was poured and stirred for me or delivered to me in that state. On the Cap, I was looked at like I was from Mars when I made the request and then had to mix it myself. It's particularly galling when you consider that the Cap is, along with the Starlight and Builder, supposed to be one of Amtrak's "show-off" trains while the Chief isn't...and yet service was a bit better on the Chief (my only issues there simply related to my SCA having the Transdorm as well, something I can sympathize with).

It is outragous for a member of the crew to have come down on you for the time you choose to get up in the morning. They were still open for service, so first and foremost, that was none of their business. Second, it IS their job to find a seating time for you. The only thing going for #30 (for me) is the early morning scenery. I wake before the sun, grab a cup of coffee as soon as its ready, and enjoy watching West Virginia and Maryland come to life. Bottom line, you (we) are the customer. Barring that, they wouldn't even have a job to go to, let alone complain about. Yes, the CAP lost its luster for me quite a few runs ago and again, I have to agree with you that I find the service on the Chief excellent. Seems silly, but my wife had a Chief dining car crew autograph a menu for us. The LSA was Janeen (sp?) on that run. Amtrak received a very positive letter on their behalf from us. I do not expect to be treated like royalty, but when you shell out big bucks to travel, some respect and common courtesy go a very long way.

 

[VentureForth]

I wrote to the Director of AMTRAK customer service in Philadelphia by name after a major problem on the SWC returning 1/12 and received a personally signed letter of apology AND a $600 voucher. Just wanted the problem solved and was not expecting the voucher.
WE can make AMTRAK better if WE write in addition to comments on AU. Somethings we have no control over, somethings we can affect.

NAVYBLUE

Was the issue actually fixed, or did you get an apology and a voucher and the problem persists?

It's particularly galling when you consider that the Cap is, along with the Starlight and Builder, supposed to be one of Amtrak's "show-off" trains while the Chief isn't...and yet service was a bit better on the Chief (my only issues there simply related to my SCA having the Transdorm as well, something I can sympathize with).

Really? I have never seen anything that would put the Capitol Limited on the "Elite" list of LD trains. Nor the Chief for that matter, though the latter had some fine pedigree to which it faltered then struggled to overcome in the early Amtrak years. I have only heard the Empire Builder to be the Flagship of Amtrak's long distance service and the Coast Starlight as Amtrak California's Flagship, making it sorta de facto a 2nd Amtrak fancy train.

 

[Anderson]

I wrote to the Director of AMTRAK customer service in Philadelphia by name after a major problem on the SWC returning 1/12 and received a personally signed letter of apology AND a $600 voucher. Just wanted the problem solved and was not expecting the voucher.
WE can make AMTRAK better if WE write in addition to comments on AU. Somethings we have no control over, somethings we can affect.

NAVYBLUE

Was the issue actually fixed, or did you get an apology and a voucher and the problem persists?

It's particularly galling when you consider that the Cap is, along with the Starlight and Builder, supposed to be one of Amtrak's "show-off" trains while the Chief isn't...and yet service was a bit better on the Chief (my only issues there simply related to my SCA having the Transdorm as well, something I can sympathize with).

Really? I have never seen anything that would put the Capitol Limited on the "Elite" list of LD trains. Nor the Chief for that matter, though the latter had some fine pedigree to which it faltered then struggled to overcome in the early Amtrak years. I have only heard the Empire Builder to be the Flagship of Amtrak's long distance service and the Coast Starlight as Amtrak California's Flagship, making it sorta de facto a 2nd Amtrak fancy train.

At the very least, the dining service on the Cap was "upgraded" (to china dishes and whatnot). This also came up when I raised the possibility of flipping the Cap back to Viewliners (to make the Pennsylvanian through cars easier, etc. and to stretch the Superliners further out west).