Capitol Limited Dining Car

[AlanB]

Well while the food was just fine, this car is still a major mistake for the Capitol Limited. If they can't get all the sleeper pax through the car before 9:30 PM when the sleepers weren't sold out, what's going to happen during the peak periods?

And an even bigger mistake is management thinking that this car can be run with one SA and one LSA. I give full credit to the two guys working our car, they were doing their absolute best. But there is simply no way that they can handle the crowd in that car. It doesn't work!

It is simply not humanly possible for them to have done anything more, and yet they still could not meet the needs of the passengers. Service wasn't horrible, in fact they pretty much managed to keep the bulk of the passengers happy, in part because most saw just how hard they were working. But even then things were missed, people waited to order, and they couldn't even think about cleaning the tables for the next seating. But for a supervisor who was riding the train, the tables would never have been cleared.

If the CCC is indeed here to stay, then at the very least it must run with two SA's and one LSA!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I think nobody makes decent beer, because I hate the bloody taste of it.

That explains a lot......... h34r:

Frankly, I think almost all British food is so bloody inedible, we should be using it for bleedin' cattle feed. Marmite? BLECH! I get nauseous thinking of it. Do I go around making such disparaging remarks in places they don't belong vis a vis your culture? No, I don't. Please don't go around doing it needlessly and pointlessly.

That's a bit funny coming from someone who shoves his blinkered opinions about everything down everyone's throats on a regular basis!

Oh, and your bacon is rubbish, pancakes are never a breakfast item, you write the date the wrong way round and your spelling is awful. Color?? :angry:

Pay more attention to my posts. I often spell things half American and half British, since I spent more than a little time abroad.

Further, Neil, I share my relevant opinions just like everyone else. I can't quite see, however, how the "suckiness" of American bacteriaized dairy products and fermented barley relates to the utilization of a new type of food service car on the Capitol Limited. Would you care to enlighten me?

 

[Neil_M]

Would you care to enlighten me?

Its an off topic, random rant-ette. Same as some other fool gibbering on about how Blackberries are the spawn of the devil and travelling over 50mph should be against the law.

Or do you want to have a monopoly on talking crap? :blink:

 

[Larry H.]

Well while the food was just fine, this car is still a major mistake for the Capitol Limited. If they can't get all the sleeper pax through the car before 9:30 PM when the sleepers weren't sold out, what's going to happen during the peak periods?
And an even bigger mistake is management thinking that this car can be run with one SA and one LSA. I give full credit to the two guys working our car, they were doing their absolute best. But there is simply no way that they can handle the crowd in that car. It doesn't work!

It is simply not humanly possible for them to have done anything more, and yet they still could not meet the needs of the passengers. Service wasn't horrible, in fact they pretty much managed to keep the bulk of the passengers happy, in part because most saw just how hard they were working. But even then things were missed, people waited to order, and they couldn't even think about cleaning the tables for the next seating. But for a supervisor who was riding the train, the tables would never have been cleared.

If the CCC is indeed here to stay, then at the very least it must run with two SA's and one LSA!

Allen when we rode this car on the Capitol on Sept 26th it was two full sleepers and some in the crew car. We were still sitting in the diner at 11PM and no coach passengers had been allowed to eat! Contrary to your experience with good service we had abysmal service, or should I say "none". We were seated at 9PM and most of the time saw the waiter only when we went after him.

 

[Trogdor]

Well while the food was just fine, this car is still a major mistake for the Capitol Limited. If they can't get all the sleeper pax through the car before 9:30 PM when the sleepers weren't sold out, what's going to happen during the peak periods?
And an even bigger mistake is management thinking that this car can be run with one SA and one LSA. I give full credit to the two guys working our car, they were doing their absolute best. But there is simply no way that they can handle the crowd in that car. It doesn't work!

It is simply not humanly possible for them to have done anything more, and yet they still could not meet the needs of the passengers. Service wasn't horrible, in fact they pretty much managed to keep the bulk of the passengers happy, in part because most saw just how hard they were working. But even then things were missed, people waited to order, and they couldn't even think about cleaning the tables for the next seating. But for a supervisor who was riding the train, the tables would never have been cleared.

If the CCC is indeed here to stay, then at the very least it must run with two SA's and one LSA!

I can't understand why Amtrak, which had seemingly good plan for the diner-lounge service, has fallen back on running it like a normal dining car. Diner-lounge (or CCC, or whatever they want to call it) really only works when it's open continuously, without predesignated "seatings" for specific meal times.

I recently took the Texas Eagle, which had a CCC and a Sightseer Lounge. The timetable said that the Sightseer Lounge was unstaffed, and for seating only. For food/snacks, one had to go to the diner-lounge.

The key selling point of the diner-lounge, which was supposed to make service better than what Amtrak previously/currently had, was that it was open continuously (at least, from 11 am to 11 pm), and you could by small items off the menu (such as appetizers, a burger, or desserts) without getting a full meal service. This could actually be done with one LSA and two SAs. Since there wouldn't be specific "meal times" (and no reservations would be required), there wouldn't be a huge rush at set intervals. Therefore, the LSA wouldn't be tied up with the task of standing in the middle of the car and pointing people to their seats. He/she could then help out the SAs with taking orders and delivering food. If people could eat lunch at 2 or 3 pm (and they knew they could eat lunch at that time, without worrying if the diner would be closed), there wouldn't be a rush of people trying to eat lunch at 11:30 am or 12:00n. Likewise, if people knew that the "dinner menu" would be available for service from 5 pm until 11 pm (and they wouldn't necessarily have to announce it right at 5, but instead make periodic announcements reminding passengers of the services available in the diner-lounge throughout the day), you wouldn't have a rush of people all trying to sit down at the same time.

Having the third staff member would make service go quicker (and by putting him in the diner-lounge instead of the sightseer lounge, Amtrak could make more money selling $8 burgers and $5 appetizers rather than $4 microwave burgers and $3 hot dogs).

I will say that Amtrak was foolish to believe they could eliminate the other car completely. The sightseer car should still run in tandem with the diner-lounge (even if it is not staffed). The refurbished lounges could have the booth-tables on the upper level used as overflow diner seating when necessary (I mean, the view would be much nicer there anyway).

When Amtrak was running the tests of the diner-lounge two years ago, the service worked very well. However, they also had two service managers on board overseeing things and helping out. Now that Amtrak is putting the car into regular service, they are reducing staff levels to the point where it can't work. What's worse is that they're continuing to staff the Sightseer Lounge, rather than moving that employee to the diner-lounge where he could sell the exact same things, plus more (meaning that service would not, in any way, be downgraded for passengers that wanted to buy from the existing lounge menu). What's more, with all of the staff in one car, they wouldn't have to close the sightseer lounge in the middle of a busy meal period just so the LSA can take his meal break. They could rotate the crew meals during off hours, without ever having to close up shop for the passengers.

 

[librarian]

Our trip this week on the CL found that the newly renovated CCC cars don't work well as a traditional diner. Those silly booths reduce the number of diners. The lounge side wasn't used at all as the real Lounge car was in the consist and operational. The food was okay, but the staff seemed poorly organized and unsure of how to operate the space.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Our trip this week on the CL found that the newly renovated CCC cars don't work well as a traditional diner. Those silly booths reduce the number of diners. The lounge side wasn't used at all as the real Lounge car was in the consist and operational. The food was okay, but the staff seemed poorly organized and unsure of how to operate the space.

We rode the CL on 10/21-22. Although I agree the new CCC was a step down from a true diner, the staff did a good job.

 

[AlanB]

Our trip this week on the CL found that the newly renovated CCC cars don't work well as a traditional diner. Those silly booths reduce the number of diners. The lounge side wasn't used at all as the real Lounge car was in the consist and operational. The food was okay, but the staff seemed poorly organized and unsure of how to operate the space.

Actually if the staff does use the lounge side, the capacity of the car is greater than the capacity of a Superliner dining car. However, one LSA and one SA, along with one cook downstairs cannot possibly handle 85 passengers at once. Heck, they can't even handle more than 45 at once and even that is really pushing it. And therein lies the biggest problem with this car, Amtrak seems to think that with sleepers at capacity or near capacity, that the three man/women crew can handle that many diners at once.

If we assume that each room is occupied by 1.5 people, since some rooms will have two pax while other only one pax, that's still 72 people who will most likely want meals. Now granted they do stagger meal times a bit, but that's still a lot of people through the diner for a very small crew. And let's not forget that coach people want to come in too, the average occupancy might be closer to 1.75 in the sleepers, and the LSA has many other duties beyond just playing waiter.

Unless the passenger load in the sleepers is less than 54, IMHO this car should not be run with fewer than 2 SA's, 1 LSA, and 2 cooks.

I had what I considered to be a great crew in the dining car on the CL last month on my way to the Gathering in LA. These two guys worked their butts off and still, there was simply no way that they could keep up with the demmand. There was even a Supervisor on board, a very nice lady whose name I didn't get. She was busy helping out by clearing tables and resetting them, and still they couldn't get the people served fast enough and kept falling behind on calling the next group of reservations.

One SA, one LSA, and one cook does not work on this train unless sleeper occupancy is lower than 50% of capacity.

 

[amamba]

Is the CL the only train running this menu in this type of car? Do you think they are testing this to expand it to other routes?

 

[Kevin L.]

So, as I will be riding the CL for 18 hours from DC to Lafayette, IN (LAF), I should bring a fair amount of food because as a coach passenger I'm not going to get dining access?

 

[profwebs]

So, as I will be riding the CL for 18 hours from DC to Lafayette, IN (LAF), I should bring a fair amount of food because as a coach passenger I'm not going to get dining access?

I was in coach on the CL 2 times this year and both times I was able to have a meal in the diner. Even if you can't get into the diner now(CCC), they are still running the sightseer lounge with the snack bar downstairs. Plenty of snacks available, so if you do decide to bring food, you shouldn't have to bring much.

 

[Dental Wiz]

Our trip this week on the CL found that the newly renovated CCC cars don't work well as a traditional diner. Those silly booths reduce the number of diners. The lounge side wasn't used at all as the real Lounge car was in the consist and operational. The food was okay, but the staff seemed poorly organized and unsure of how to operate the space.

Actually if the staff does use the lounge side, the capacity of the car is greater than the capacity of a Superliner dining car. However, one LSA and one SA, along with one cook downstairs cannot possibly handle 85 passengers at once. Heck, they can't even handle more than 45 at once and even that is really pushing it. And therein lies the biggest problem with this car, Amtrak seems to think that with sleepers at capacity or near capacity, that the three man/women crew can handle that many diners at once.

If we assume that each room is occupied by 1.5 people, since some rooms will have two pax while other only one pax, that's still 72 people who will most likely want meals. Now granted they do stagger meal times a bit, but that's still a lot of people through the diner for a very small crew. And let's not forget that coach people want to come in too, the average occupancy might be closer to 1.75 in the sleepers, and the LSA has many other duties beyond just playing waiter.

Unless the passenger load in the sleepers is less than 54, IMHO this car should not be run with fewer than 2 SA's, 1 LSA, and 2 cooks.

I had what I considered to be a great crew in the dining car on the CL last month on my way to the Gathering in LA. These two guys worked their butts off and still, there was simply no way that they could keep up with the demmand. There was even a Supervisor on board, a very nice lady whose name I didn't get. She was busy helping out by clearing tables and resetting them, and still they couldn't get the people served fast enough and kept falling behind on calling the next group of reservations.

One SA, one LSA, and one cook does not work on this train unless sleeper occupancy is lower than 50% of capacity.

Alan,

Please email Amtrak customer service. If you get a canned response, don't just accept it. Email them back again and persist. Tell them about your trip on the Cap and your comments. Customer service will likely give you a call.

Steve

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I've gathered that the CCC conversions pretty much on hold for now. I'm not sure, but it sure has been a while since any were released from Beech Grove.

 

[AlanB]

I've gathered that the CCC conversions pretty much on hold for now. I'm not sure, but it sure has been a while since any were released from Beech Grove.

Huh? :unsure:

How did you gather that? One was just release in August exactly three months ago, with one more scheduled for conversion by the fiscal year end in September. However since Amtrak hasn't yet released the September monthly report, I can't yet verify that BEE managed to finish the final conversion of the 14 that were scheduled and budgeted for in Fiscal 2008.

I haven't yet seen this year's budget to know what, if anything, was scheduled for this fiscal year.