Bad News for a Heritage Dining Car

[printman2000]

Being reported on another forum that while 92 passed a frieght something came off and hit 92. Damaged the second P42, several Amfleets and caused significant damage to dining car 8551. Hope this does not mean the LSL is going to lose one of its dining cars.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2099822

 

[wayman]

Being reported on another forum that while 92 passed a frieght something came off and hit 92. Damaged the second P42, several Amfleets and caused significant damage to dining car 8551. Hope this doe snot mean the LSL is going to lose one of its dining cars.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2099822

"Significant damage" is almost an understatement!

... a door fell off one (the freight) cars as we were passing him. It appears to have bounced off the side of the 2nd P42, no. 140, took the vents off the tops of several Amfleet cars before finally sheering off 10-15ft of the top of the diner.....cutting it open like a can opener.

That does not sound like an easy repair. I hope it's a possible repair.

Diner 8551 was originally the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy 194 "Silver Diner", built for the California Zephyr in 1948. It was refurbished with a Temoinsa interior kit.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Forgive my ignorance... but who pays for something like this? Can Amtrak take CSX to Judge Judy with an estimate? :lol:

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak and their insurance pay for the damage.

CSX only pays to fix it's cars and any possible track damage that might have been caused.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

If something was skidding along the top of the Amfleets, I can see where the Diner would take heavy damage as it has a higher profile. Let's hope it can be repaired and quickly back in service.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Well hopefully the claims adjustor won't look at the top of the car and say: "Sorry, that's a pre-existing condition."

 

[Guest]

Silver #92 will now be featuring "al fresco" under-the-stars dining, utilizing their new open-top dining car.

 

[AAARGH!]

Well if an Amcan got sliced open, the offending train could be called the Amcan Opener. :blink:

 

[Tony]

Good thing Amtrak moved the Viewliners to after the dining car on the Silvers. Otherwise, the tops of one or more occupied Viewliners would have been torn off !!

 

[Tony]

Can Amtrak take CSX to Judge Judy with an estimate? :lol:

Though Judy Judy would decide the case strictly on whether either of the Conductors were current on their child support payments or not.

 

[George Harris]

Amtrak and their insurance pay for the damage.
CSX only pays to fix it's cars and any possible track damage that might have been caused.

To carry this a little further, this is the normal trackage rights type agreement. So far as the law and common railroad practice is concerned, Amtrak is operating over CSX, (or any other railroad company's tracks) as a tenant under a trackage rights agreement. Therefore, anytime you hear someone go through the song and dance about how CSX is getting off and dodging their responsibilityes in these sort of things, it is simply political posturing and playing to the grandstands.

As an example: The same sort of situation applies in such situations as NS operating over CSX tracks between Stevenson AL and Wauhatchie TN (just outside Chattanooga) which goes back to before the War Between The States when it was the Memphis and Charleston operating on tracks of the Nashville and Chattanooga.

 

[Pullman]

We are scheduled to take 91 & 92 next week. Does Amtrak have enough diners in its fleet to replace #8551?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

We are scheduled to take 91 & 92 next week. Does Amtrak have enough diners in its fleet to replace #8551?

You'll have a diner, one way or another.

 

[TVRM610]

Silver #92 will now be featuring "al fresco" under-the-stars dining, utilizing their new open-top dining car.

This is simply not possible for several reasons...

1. It is a health risk for the food to be prepared in an open air-environment. You can't just have bugs flying into a stew for instance.

2. The Unions would strictly oppose Dining Car staff working in such elements as snow and and rain.

3. It is a potential safety hazard as random rocks or debris could be tossed up by the train and land on a passenger.

 

[sunchaser]

That's really too bad about the train & the diner...I hate to see the older cars get trashed that way.

I've been trying to find anymore info or pictures of the damage, but haven't had any success yet.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Silver #92 will now be featuring "al fresco" under-the-stars dining, utilizing their new open-top dining car.

This is simply not possible for several reasons...

1. It is a health risk for the food to be prepared in an open air-environment. You can't just have bugs flying into a stew for instance.

2. The Unions would strictly oppose Dining Car staff working in such elements as snow and and rain.

3. It is a potential safety hazard as random rocks or debris could be tossed up by the train and land on a passenger.

you do know he was joking right.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

They both were wolverine...

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak and their insurance pay for the damage.
CSX only pays to fix it's cars and any possible track damage that might have been caused.

To carry this a little further, this is the normal trackage rights type agreement. So far as the law and common railroad practice is concerned, Amtrak is operating over CSX, (or any other railroad company's tracks) as a tenant under a trackage rights agreement. Therefore, anytime you hear someone go through the song and dance about how CSX is getting off and dodging their responsibilityes in these sort of things, it is simply political posturing and playing to the grandstands.

As an example: The same sort of situation applies in such situations as NS operating over CSX tracks between Stevenson AL and Wauhatchie TN (just outside Chattanooga) which goes back to before the War Between The States when it was the Memphis and Charleston operating on tracks of the Nashville and Chattanooga.

Agreed George! I probably should have mentioned that in my post, but didn't. But again you are correct, this type of agreement is how all the RR's operate.

 

[MattW]

Any updates (or pics! ) on this car? I've been dancing around the internet the past few days, but haven't seen any updates. Since it was set out in Folkston, I was hoping for some cool pics to find their way to the web, but haven't.

 

[DET63]

Trainorders discussion:

My trip on 92 last nite..sure wasnt uneventful. After zig zagging alont the Nahunta sub NB, crossing over at Dinsmore, then back over again at south Callahan, everything came to a screeching halt just north of Bolougne, FL...secs shy of the FL/GA border. Aparently while going north on track 2, we passed q603 sb on track 1...and a door fell off one his cars as we were passing him. It appears to have bounced off the side of the 2nd P42, no. 140, took the vents off the tops of several Amfleet cars before finally sheering off 10-15ft of the top of the diner.....cutting it open like a can opener. Diner 8551. We had to set it off at the woodchip track just north of Folkston....so if anyone wants to see the carnage....you know where to go.
Q603 had 3 of his cars damaged, which the train could not move till it was fixed.....thus dog law'n the crew till shop forces came out to assist.

We made to Hamlet with about 25mins before dogg'n ourselves. At the hotel....off to bed to catch 91 tonight. BTW no one was hurt...as no one was in the car at the time. CSX has some explaining to do. We had 3 guys in the cab and none of us saw a door hanging off before it went by.

 

[guest in the Rose City]

When I was a little kid growing up in Riverside, California, I remember an awful tragedy where a steel beam fell off a freight train passing a holiday single-level chair car consist attached to the Super Chief, knifing into a passenger window and killing 5 people. It was in the middle of the Mojave, and the odds were incredible, unfortunately, of the beam falling just as a passenger train passed in the middle of the desert.

The same type of tragedy, or worse, could have easily taken place with this incident. I think CSX and Amtrak were both very, very fortunate. It also shows the responsibility placed on the Amtrak engineer each time he or she passes a freight, to be forced to watch for untoward signs on the freight while maintaining all the other cab duties.

 

[wayman]

When I was a little kid growing up in Riverside, California, I remember an awful tragedy where a steel beam fell off a freight train passing a holiday single-level chair car consist attached to the Super Chief, knifing into a passenger window and killing 5 people. It was in the middle of the Mojave, and the odds were incredible, unfortunately, of the beam falling just as a passenger train passed in the middle of the desert.The same type of tragedy, or worse, could have easily taken place with this incident. I think CSX and Amtrak were both very, very fortunate. It also shows the responsibility placed on the Amtrak engineer each time he or she passes a freight, to be forced to watch for untoward signs on the freight while maintaining all the other cab duties.

a) in this instance, according to the TrainOrders report, the cab crew saw no signs of anything wrong as the Amtrak passed the freight

b) even if they had seen a loose door hanging off the freight, what could anyone do about it by that point? if both trains are moving, there would probably be no way to avoid a disaster even if both trains went into emergency stop at that point, given their distance and momentum. the only possible action I can imagine being possible under such circumstances would be the engineer radio'ing the conductor to make a trainwide announcement "all passengers move to the right side of the train and duck, immediately!" or some such...

 

[Tony]

We had to set it off at the woodchip track just north of Folkston....so if anyone wants to see the carnage....you know where to go.

Did anyone manage to get any pics, and post them anywhere ?

I looked over on trainorders, but people only posted pics of other, past (and far worse), wrecks.

 

[Amtrak839]

Photos of Damage

Not nearly as bad as I was expecting. You can see they're already working on it. Looks like it should be back in service before too long.

 

[printman2000]

Yeah, not too bad at all. Unless there is some structural damage we can not see.